Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Cabinet under powering?
- Thread starter madjazzbass
- Start date
Power handling can be expressed in many different ways. Some companies are more, ah.. innovative in how they express their numbers. Many ways are not measurable, not verifiable, non-standard.
British watts vs Head & Shoulder watts...I always tell the crowd I just used my wife's shampoo with a volumizer... so please let me know if I'm too loud. 
oh, okay, well anyways, I spoke with the guys over at Avatar speakers and they assured me that yes,, that is a 700 watt 2x10 cabinet you can call if you want and speak to them yourself you don't believe me ...?It was a joke-
Noone is saying that you were wrong.
If you understand how speakers are rated, then you will understand why we are all saying that there is NOT a 2X10 out there that can handle 700w of bass.
If you'd like, you can call up Avatar Speakers, go directly to the source like I did, and ask them if you don't believe it; it's a 700 watt 2x10 Bass cabinet, the B210 w/ Delta Pro 10 LF's inside.
I believe you. I believe that you are absolutely convinced that you have a 700 watt 2X10 cabinet. But, 700 watts... measured how? The most standard way to express watts is RMS. Let's just say that if that company has truly built a 2X10 cabinet that can handle 700 watts RMS, then they are the only ones on the planet that have accomplished that.
208 -762 -5251 Here's the no.# to Avatar Speakers, give'em a call, they can help you understand, cause I'm not a "cabinet builder." Ask for Trevor, super nice guy.
Well, the CONCEPT is valid.
If you have an underpowered SYSTEM you risk damage to the speakers by running it to the point of BAD distortion when attempting to achieve the volume you need. OR if you have a LARGE inefficient cab that needs a wad of power to really work you can "underpower it" and it will SOUND terrible (though zero risk).
I suspect this are where the myth of underpowering amps comes from.
Also - in sound reinforcement and hifi applications under-powering really is a thing - again, because if your power amp is distorting all night at truly full frequency reproduction you can easily damage speakers rated for considerably higher than what the amp is rated at - because the spikes in frequency are unsmooth (moving the speakers in a way they don't like) and potentially 2 to 3 times the rated RMS power. (so a 100 watt amp could be putting 250-300 watts into a 200 watt speaker - see?).
Again - really does NOT apply to bass reproduction - but probably a source of the mythology.
Yeah, you're right. No way. That box doesn't exist. 10" Delta Pro LFs don't exist.
But 700 RMS 210s can be built. 800 RMS 210s can be built. Drivers exist. Maybe even higher RMS 210s can be built. But ain't nobody that I know of or have ever heard of that has those kinda 210s in normal production. They'd be prohibitively expensive. Plain/simple.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,937
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
There is no commercially available 210 that I know of that is capable of 750 watts "RMS" with any kind of reasonable margin of safety. Mechanically it's just not realistic. Perhaps it's a peak rating which by common law (for speakers) definition is 4x the "RMS" rating, but if using peak power ratings of a speaker you must also use the peak rating of the amplifier which is defined mathematically as 2x the RMS value. The peak rating of your Streamlimer is 1200 watts.
For typical bass guitar use, I find that the best results long term are where the amp's RMS rating is between 0.75 and 1.5x the speaker's RMS rating. This gives a good balance between performance and reliability for most reasonable players.
For typical bass guitar use, I find that the best results long term are where the amp's RMS rating is between 0.75 and 1.5x the speaker's RMS rating. This gives a good balance between performance and reliability for most reasonable players.
As nick says, I also absolutely & firmly believe you believe you have what you say you have. Otherwise, I don't think there's any way you'd be so vehement
. It's just that, sorry, no, you don't. There's confusion there on your part. Once again, Avatar does have a 700 RMS Delta 12 LF-equipped 212.
Last edited:
Did you use the number I supplied to contact Avatar directly? Probably not, I'm done. Chow.As nick says, I also absolutely & firmly believe you believe you have what you say you have. Otherwise, I don't think there's any way you'd be so vehement
Just one favor though before you leave...........
Please DO run 700w through that cab for us. Also make sure to video it, so we can watch the speaker cones jump out of their baskets in pieces.
You call up a company and say, "The doods (sic) on the internets say that no 2x10 can take 700 and live." People do that all the time in our shop. "The internet says smoke came out of my amp because the bypass cap tends to go on these amps" Us: Good, send it to the internet for an estimate."
Do you really think a rep for the company is going to say, "Yeah, we high passed at 250hz and for a few milliseconds the power crested at 700 so that's the rating we gave it but it's kind of a BS number that looks good in ad copy."
These numbers games are as old as speakers themselves. The only ratings that matter are the ones where the test conditions are specified and hopefully followed the AES standards so we're not talking about marigolds to describe daisies.
BTW, it's "ciao" but maybe you were being purposefully obtuse.
Do you really think a rep for the company is going to say, "Yeah, we high passed at 250hz and for a few milliseconds the power crested at 700 so that's the rating we gave it but it's kind of a BS number that looks good in ad copy."
These numbers games are as old as speakers themselves. The only ratings that matter are the ones where the test conditions are specified and hopefully followed the AES standards so we're not talking about marigolds to describe daisies.
BTW, it's "ciao" but maybe you were being purposefully obtuse.
Sorry Dude, my amp will only allow 500 watts into a single 2x10, Haaaaaa!! I can video that if you'd like, Ha Ha!!
With those cabs and that amp you will be fine. Just use your ears for signs of stress and adjust the eq and or volume as needed.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
As nick says, I also absolutely & firmly believe you believe you have what you say you have. Otherwise, I don't think there's any way you'd be so vehement
Of course I called Avatar. Who do you think you're dealin' with anyhow
? I knew the answer before I called, but called anyway just for shytes & giggles. Of course they have no such box.Delta Pro 10-equipped 210? Yep. Sure. As listed on their site. But 10" Delta Pro LF? Nope. Sorry, just nope. Plain old nope. The driver itself doesn't exist. Trevor or whomever (regardless of how nice a fella he may be), was either terribly misinformed (probably) or was intentionally misrepresenting the drivers/cab. I believe the former is much more likely. Avatar is primarily a S-i-a-B outfit, anyway. Sure it doesn't take Big-Bang-Theory gray matter to work there.
Shoot, do some basic research yourself. If you approach it honestly, you'll see you're also just misinformed. In fact, heck, call Eminence in Eminence (I love Kentucky
). You like phone numbers. Great. Here's one. 502.845.5622. Go to the horse's mouth, as it were (especially appropriate for the Bluegrass state ). Ask them about their 10" Delta Pro LF. See what they say. Will you call this number that I've supplied?
Last edited:
