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Cabinets and speakers

B

BassBart

Guest
Dec 11, 2013
18
1
#1
Hi everyone,

As I said in another thread I've been playing for a while but haven't been shopping for bass stuff or keeping up on new gear. In searching through the offerings on Craigslist I've seen a lot of 4x10 and 2x12 bass cabinets but back in the day (I can say that now, I'm oldish) 15" speakers were pretty standard for bass rigs.

Anyone feel like commenting and enlightening an oldish bassist? I've seen a Peavey 1x18 cabinet that seems interesting but what's up with all the 4x10's being sold as bass cabs?

Thanks!
Bart
 
#2
410's took over popularity for a while. Higher power handling with most cases better displacement than the old 215's in a smaller still capable package.
212's are gaining over the 410's as people find out about what mids do out in the crowd and the beaming effect of the 4 square 410 makes those mids project narrowly into the room.
I'm an old 15's player, I only use either a 212 or staggered 412 cab now.
 
#3
thanks for the explanation B. I guess newer 12" speakers don't blob out when you try to jam and drag out a nice low note?

i've been so out of it for so long i feel like i'm starting over even though i never really left!
 
#5
BassBart said:
i wonder why we don't see combination cabinets like 1x12 with 1x15 or 1x15 with 2x10?
Click to expand...

They're out there, but there are better designs available. Check into Greenboy for some designs that do work.

Technology has advanced and the materials used now can do things nobody would have believed 20 years ago. I regularly gig an 8x2 cab, even though I have much bigger ones in my garage - good stuff in good condition, not off brand stuff too. Check out what is available, and use your own ears, not what others believe to be universal truth.
 
#6
Speaker technology has come so far since the old days. 10's and 12's today can out perform in output and frequency response the old 15" speakers.

Mixing driver sizes has been discovered in recent years most cases to be a detraction not a plus. There are newer designs in the DIY and boutique arenas that are actually two and three way cabs (like the old HiFi days) that offer some nice advantages for some. You'll probably hear the name fEARful before too long.
18's these days are just too limiting and heavy.
 
#7
10s have really been the norm for over 40 years. Ever since Ampeg introduced the SVT 810. Most touring bass players use 10s. I have tried 10s, 15s and 18s and prefer the sound of 10s much better. Tighter sounding without the booming low end of 15s and 18s.
 
#8
BassBart said:
Hi everyone,

As I said in another thread I've been playing for a while but haven't been shopping for bass stuff or keeping up on new gear. In searching through the offerings on Craigslist I've seen a lot of 4x10 and 2x12 bass cabinets but back in the day (I can say that now, I'm oldish) 15" speakers were pretty standard for bass rigs.

Anyone feel like commenting and enlightening an oldish bassist? I've seen a Peavey 1x18 cabinet that seems interesting but what's up with all the 4x10's being sold as bass cabs?

Thanks!
Bart
Click to expand...

You have a LOT of catching up to do, Bart. Fortunately you're in the right place. :cool:

The 4x10 format, while still popular, is far from the "next new thing" it was during the early to mid 80s. So that peak has long since come and gone.

All the rage these days are new Neo drivers with extra-long excursion, that moves serious air for their size. The new 12-inch Neo woofers in particular are quite impressive. So are the highly-engineered newer two-way & three-way designs, with dedicated mid-range and/or high-frequency drivers, and sophisticated next-gen crossovers & frequency filters.

Of course, much of this stuff has yet to penetrate the mass market of online music gear retailers and mall music stores, and is still mostly the province of early adopters. But to an extent that just a matter of time.

In the meantime, you can learn a great deal merely by lurking for awhile on some of these threads in the "Amps" forum: Acme, Audiokinesis, Baer, Barefaced, Bergantino, Epifani, Euphonic Audio, fEARful, fEARless, etc. Hey, even Accugroove appears to be coming back!

MM

P.S. I'm nearly 58 years old, and don't feel "oldish" in the least. Your age is mostly between your ears.
 
#10
MysticMichael said:
You have a LOT of catching up to do, Bart. Fortunately you're in the right place. :cool:

MM
Click to expand...

B-string said:
...I only use either a 212 or staggered 412 cab now.
Click to expand...

Yes siree, TB will get you all the cold hard facts to get you up to speed. :cool:

For example, when B-string mentioned his staggered 412 he was talking about what happens when a bass cabinet goes out drinking with it's buddies....... :hiding:
 
#11
Not sure I follow what you are saying?

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#12
BassBart said:
I guess newer 12" speakers don't blob out when you try to jam and drag out a nice low note?
Click to expand...

There's a new generation of lightweight high-power fartout-resistant woofers out there, spearheaded by the Eminence Kappalite series, that weighs half as much and moves twice as much air as their predecessors. With commensurate price tags, of course.

That being said, the power-to-weight ratio advances in the bass cab world pale next to what's been happening in the world of amps... but tubes & heavy iron still have a strong following.

BassBart said:
i wonder why we don't see combination cabinets like 1x12 with 1x15 or 1x15 with 2x10?
Click to expand...

When you combine dissimilar speakers in the same cab, one of them is going to be the limiting factor and fartout first. That weak link then sets the upper limit of how loud the cab will go. It you have other speakers in the cab that still have more to give, that additional capability is essentially wasted.
 
#13
BassBart said:
i wonder why we don't see combination cabinets like 1x12 with 1x15 or 1x15 with 2x10?
Click to expand...
Because the ones that have been made with those different combos generally suck.

As for why 10"s are often used, they sound good and you can put more of them in a smaller cab than 15"s or 12"s and get more sound pressure levels. Speaker size has pretty much nothing to do with how a cab performs with bass.
 
#14
DukeLeJeune said:
There's a new generation of lightweight high-power fartout-resistant woofers out there, spearheaded by the Eminence Kappalite series, that weighs half as much and moves twice as much air as their predecessors. With commensurate price tags, of course.

That being said, the power-to-weight ratio advances in the bass cab world pale next to what's been happening in the world of amps... but tubes & heavy iron still have a strong following.



When you combine dissimilar speakers in the same cab, one of them is going to be the limiting factor and fartout first. That weak link then sets the upper limit of how loud the cab will go. It you have other speakers in the cab that still have more to give, that additional capability is essentially wasted.
Click to expand...
Just a couple of points for best accuracy:
The X-Max available from the latest eminence kappa non LF 15 @ 5.9 mm is higher but by far less than a factor of two in comparison with a quality bass guitar driver of the 70's like a JBL K140 @ 5.08 mm.
PS My stepson James Beauclerk is going to be a Duke too, but he will have to get through being a Barron a couple of times, then an Earl first.:D
 
#16
DukeLeJeune said:
When you combine dissimilar speakers in the same cab, one of them is going to be the limiting factor and fartout first. That weak link then sets the upper limit of how loud the cab will go. It you have other speakers in the cab that still have more to give, that additional capability is essentially wasted.
Click to expand...

Probably the most succinct, yet accurate explanation I've ever read...

JimmyM said:
Because the ones that have been made with those different combos generally suck.
Click to expand...

...except maybe for this one. :p

MM
 
#17
I'm probably older than you. And, yeah, we all used 1x15's forever, it seemed. The newer 1x15's are great, but the same old physics does apply. You want more bottom end? You'll need a bigger cabinet with that. Not to say that size is a big deal, because my BagEnd S15B-D is unbelievably good as a stand alone cab. It will fill a room and stay crystal clear.

But, give a good 2x12 cab a whirl. The fat-but-tight bottom end will floor you. Plus, add the mids and highs that you normally cannot get from the old 1x15 and you'll be sold.

And, 4x10 will fill the bill, but it does not seem to disperse as well as other cabs, in my opinion. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, either. Sometimes you need some focus - other times you don't.

Welcome back to the fold. :cool:
 
#19
Looking at and understanding/comparing (as best I can) the details for a new 15" driver compared to the old ones... I could hardly believe that there could be such a combination of light weight, power handling and sensitivity.
So I bought an Eminence 3015 (non-LF) and swapped out the older 15" in my good old TL-606, and I like it!
I wish I hadn't sold my other TL-606 cab a few years ago, so I'm going to build another and when I get the money I'll get another 3015.
Yes, I like 15's - :)
 

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