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Cables.

flameworker

flameworker

Guest
Jun 15, 2014
1,842
344
52
Landenberg, Pennsylvania
Disclosures
one day....
#1
I'm getting ready to make a batch of cables. In the past I have gotten spools of both instrument cable, and speaker cable. And put color coded wrap at the ends. It's much cheaper, and you can make any size you require.

I'm setting up a solo show, and I'm estimating need for 20 inst. Cables, 10 speaker, and 8 xlr.

I'm wondering if there is a heavy guage shielded cable that would be suitable for both uses, I can't find anything that says you shouldn't use heavy wire for instruments. I would rather just buy one big spool, and also not having to worry about others using the wrong wires. I was joking last night that I was using an instrument cable, I checked to make sure, and sure enough, someone had peeled the color strip off one of the short inst cables, that was what WAS actually hooked up. Good thing I didn't have it cooking! I stuck a speakon jack in that cab now, but there are too many to$ retrofit all of them.

Even better would be a cable that I could use XLR ends, quarter inch mono inst., and speaker ends.

I know you can't use instrument cable for speakers wire, but is there a reason not to use speaker cable for instruments?

If not maybe I'll use clear 10 guage wire to connect the amps, then they can't get swapped.
 
#4
Scottkarch said:
An instrument cable needs to be shielded. The instrument signal is so low that it needs shielding to keep it from picking up interference.

If you can find shielded cable with a heavy enough gauge it could work. Probably be very bulky and not very flexible.
Click to expand...

Any idea what a minimum safe guage would be? I found a source for several different thickness.

I need tons of patch cords for staionary stuff, bunch of computers, loopers, doesn't need to be flexible, in fact I prefer the way stiffer cables coil up.

Extra weight from the shielding and or thicker guage I hadnt thought of. That stuff adds up. I can't lift my snake.
 
#5
The problem is, not all shielded cables perform alike. The amount of shielding determines how well they work. Then there are capacitance and resistance per foot specs. Wire diameter matters in terms of ease of use. Flexibility matters. How long you need the cable to be also matters.

Maybe you can use a snake. Multiple cables bundled into one package. You can't bundle speaker cables in with instrument cables. Low level signals should be isolated from high level signal cables.

Length is important because longer cables can get noisy. If you coil up unused lengths that can induce noise. Best to get the cables as long as you need them. If they are longer or have to run along the floor, don't loop them. Snake them in an S pattern and lie them flat on the floor.

If you are buying all new cables, look for a touring supply company that can custom make them for you. They buy in bulk so you can save on buying individual cables. Magami cable is good. It is also expensive. Many alternatives are available. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] is one example. There are many cable places that can put together what you need. You might find a local one. It is nice to see the products before you but them.
 
#7
Do not use shielded cable of any gauge for speaker outputs, some amps can become unstable with this kind of load.

That's a lot of cables for a solo act...
 
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#9
B-string said:
I could see it with this OP ;)
Click to expand...

Well how are you going to wire up 8 cabs at different resistances facing each other with 4 amps (two of which are actually modified microwaves) all to achieve that big hump at 25 hz without a lot of cables? Duh!

I love the fire flameworker but too many impractical questions man. At least the $100 bass build is taking off. Keeping my eye on that.
 
#10
agedhorse said:
Do not use shielded cable of any gauge for speaker outputs, some amps can become unstable with this kind of load.

That's a lot of cables for a solo act...
Click to expand...
I read a thread earlier about a guy blowing up his amp using an instrument cable as a speaker.

I go to practice tonight, and one of the pa speakers was moved, disconnected. I go to reconnect, see a suspect cord.
It's an instrument cable, and sure enough, both "speaker" cords are.

Now I'm the new guy, like 2 weeks in. Still trying to make the right impression and all. But/so I speak up, and of course the pa belongs to the co-band founder who isn't present.
 
#12
AgedHorse... thanks for the note about not using shielded ever.. Any chance you could explain why? Since FW was talking about getting cable that could ALSO be used for an XLR connection.. I was assuming he was talking about a shielded 2 conductor cable like this... Not sure if they make it in a heavy enough gauge for speaker use...

3231%20SL005.jpg



FW... here is a quick diagram of cable length and gauge I found on Wikipedia. Guage needed is based on current. The more current the larger gauge. There are lots of tables of current vs wire gauge, but I can't fine good info on how much voltage runs through a speaker wire to calculate the current requirement for a given power. This looks like a reasonable rule of thumb for size vs speaker load.

wiresize.jpg
 
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#13
flameworker said:
I'm getting ready to make a batch of cables. In the past I have gotten spools of both instrument cable, and speaker cable. And put color coded wrap at the ends. It's much cheaper, and you can make any size you require.

I'm setting up a solo show, and I'm estimating need for 20 inst. Cables, 10 speaker, and 8 xlr.

I'm wondering if there is a heavy guage shielded cable that would be suitable for both uses, I can't find anything that says you shouldn't use heavy wire for instruments. I would rather just buy one big spool, and also not having to worry about others using the wrong wires. I was joking last night that I was using an instrument cable, I checked to make sure, and sure enough, someone had peeled the color strip off one of the short inst cables, that was what WAS actually hooked up. Good thing I didn't have it cooking! I stuck a speakon jack in that cab now, but there are too many to$ retrofit all of them.

Even better would be a cable that I could use XLR ends, quarter inch mono inst., and speaker ends.

I know you can't use instrument cable for speakers wire, but is there a reason not to use speaker cable for instruments?

If not maybe I'll use clear 10 guage wire to connect the amps, then they can't get swapped.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do it. A lot of times when one tool tries to do two very different jobs it doesn't do either of them very well.
 
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#15
Three different applications, so use three different cables.

Instrument cables also benefit from being low capacitance, so shop wisely.
http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cablechoice.shtml
-----------------
Canare makes good shielded cable for your XLRs.
Here's some handy info if you are making cables going from XLR to 1/4" (balanced to unbalanced)
http://www.jdbsound.com/art/art510.html
----------------
You can get bulk speaker cable at Parts Express. It will be black outer covering with two insulated leads inside. Don't get that flat clear hi-fi stuff for pro use.
 
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#16
If one of your issues is telling speaker from instrument cable when somebody tears of the coloured tape. Have you thought of using a different coloured speaker cable (or instrument cable). A dark blue would not look out of place on stage and would be instantly identifiable. (I use bright orange speaker cables - ex electric lawn mower - but I know not everybody would be ok with that).
 
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#17
The capacitance per foot can become an issue with longer cables, some amps will oscillate with enough capacitance in the load. Amps don't oscillate for long before giving up their magic smoke.
 
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#20
samson3382 said:
I say, I'll bring over some 1/4 inch speaker cables that'll work great."

Home owner basically says, "his gear, his say"

It's a 100 watt ancient peavy pa by the way, looks the the speakers that came with it.

So how long does it have?
Click to expand...

I've used multiple PA's and bass rigs that had been hooked up with guitar cables for years with no incident.

Not that I would ever set up my own PA that way.
 

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