Cables.

[B-string]

Low power applications you might get away with it, loss of performance of course. It is like playing Russian Roulette though, only takes one time for a bullet to be in the chamber.

 

[flameworker]

Turns out it's not cost effective to use a single cable, and now I don't want to use heavy shield for amp because agedhorse says so, every bit of info from him has been spot on so far.

Found clear copper 10 guage for the speakers, got a whole box of banners tips, and speakon ends, a few old brass 70's screw together ends (those look awesome with the clear)

And an inexpensive spool of regular shielded instrument cable, got a whole box of right angle bends, the cheapo chrome obes with two phillips screws, and some screw together 1/4"ends. I like to use colored shrink, or some way to color code the ends, keep s them from walking.

Good call on using a snake, my Norma l one is way too long and heavy for this, looking on craigslist for a 12' one or so .

 

[flameworker]

I've used multiple PA's and bass rigs that had been hooked up with guitar cables for years with no incident.

Not that I would ever set up my own PA that way.

Sure, you can get away with it sometime s, at low volume, but I have seen them short out many times, amp destruction can happen. Usually you just lose a cable, solid state can burn out even if there is a speaker fuse AND an internal one somehow. You can drive home after drinking a six pack too, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Especially bass seems prone to that, and pa, anything loud and high wattage. I'll dig up some of my brothers melted shorted cables to show what happens to the wire, it happens where the wire bends or kinks most of all, I expected to see damage at the connections, split them with a razor. I still can't post pictures, I'm getting a not enough memory message. Going to reuse all the ends, got like 8 inst cables wreck ed from his studio from that. (Over several years I'm sure)

 

[B-string]

Invalid Link Removed other non-boxed snakes available as well.

 

[flameworker]

Thanks, G.

Here is a pic if anyone can't tell the difference. Usually you can see shielding on inst.if not,Link Removed

 

[callofcthulhu]

Low power applications you might get away with it, loss of performance of course. It is like playing Russian Roulette though, only takes one time for a bullet to be in the chamber.

Sure, you can get away with it sometime s, at low volume, but I have seen them short out many times, amp destruction can happen. Usually you just lose a cable, solid state can burn out even if there is a speaker fuse AND an internal one somehow. You can drive home after drinking a six pack too, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Especially bass seems prone to that, and pa, anything loud and high wattage. I'll dig up some of my brothers melted shorted cables to show what happens to the wire, it happens where the wire bends or kinks most of all, I expected to see damage at the connections, split them with a razor. I still can't post pictures, I'm getting a not enough memory message. Going to reuse all the ends, got like 8 inst cables wreck ed from his studio from that. (Over several years I'm sure)

Don't recall the stats on the PAs (there have been at least 3 different ones at 3 different practice spaces that I know were hooked up with instrument cables), but I know for a fact that my friend had been using his 500 watt 210 + 115 GK rig with guitar cables to the speakers at gig volumes for years before I even met him.

I had been playing with him through his rig for months and even did a couple shows on it before I bothered to look more closely at his "speaker" cables.

I eventually convinced him to do it the right way.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Found clear copper 10 guage for the speakers, got a whole box of banners tips, and speakon ends, a few old brass 70's screw together ends (those look awesome with the clear) .

Pro speaker cables are cylindrical like the other cables. That shape tends to fit more snuggly into the speakon's strain relief and cord cinching end. Fits better comming out of a 1/4" connector as well. Flat stuff, not so well. You didn't buy that flat clear home hi-fi speaker cable did you? There's a reason that pro audio speaker cable is designed and constructed as it is.

 

[flameworker]

I'm not sure if it's round or flat, ordered it here. I thought it was round until you mentioned it, now i'm not sure, can't tell on my screen.

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Looks good, all copper (lots of cables i looked into were copper clad aluminum, idk if that's any good or not). I got 2 of the 50' rolls.

Flat is fine, as long as its the good thick 10guage stuff, you put a couple extra wraps of shrink wrap between the end and the cable if there is a gap.

Round is important for XLR wires, because they are twisted inside, the twisting has something to do with reducing noise, but for speaker wires, as long as the gauge is high enough for your application the shape is just aesthetics.

I like to work off the spool, because that is how i coil my cables. It drives me nuts when people wrap cables up around their elbow, I'm not ocd, but I can't stand it, I have to go back and recoil all of them. It comes from stage hand work, Ive seen 2 people fired on the spot from coiling wires wrong. One did it around the elbow, the other back and forth, like a climbing rope, I never saw someone get so angry over how a wire was coiled until they explained that once the wires are wrapped up differently then they were spooled they kink up inside.

Oh, and these aren't for selling or anything, just for me, so even if it is flat, i don't mind. Actually i think I have a few older heavy duty speakon ends that are round in the center and then have notches on both sides, to take even wider, heavier gauge stuff.


EDIT-wow, those were 100 foot spools, so now I'll have 200 feet, thats way more than I needed.

 

[flameworker]

And this stuff for the instrument cables, it cost a little bit more, but It's blue, so theft resistant/accidental theft without having to mess with putting shrink ends on!
A nice ugly Cookie Monster Smurf blue. Anyone use the GEORGE L Guitar cables? Do they feel good? Thats whats most important to me for Instrument and XLR cables, How they feel when you coil them, I haven't found much difference in different guages/quality/shield strength. As far as I can tell, those horrible hard plastic ones that come free with a $10 amp sound exactly the same as a $50 cable.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GL155Blue50

I used red for xlr cables once before, but I'm having a hard time finding it again, worked great, and you never grab the wrong wire, you can find an xlr at the bottom of a box if your in a hurry. I was concerned it would get dirty, theater floors are usually filthy, but it held up really well.

EDIT..Wish i saw this first, nice purple color. Maybe sweetwater didn't ship it out yet.
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[flameworker]

there is this stuff
http://www.amazon.com/GLS-AUDIO-Microphone-300ft-Signal/dp/B003HF2Z6M

but the kind we used last time was more of a burgundy, not that bright red or pink color this looks like.

 

[flameworker]

If anyone else wants to make instrument cables, and they want to do it super cheap, here is Five Hundred feet for about $80!.

http://www.parts-express.com/talent-gi500-22-awg-guitar-and-instrument-cable-500-ft--101-303

Thats a lot of cable for the price of 3 cables. It's probably that stiff ick'y kind tho. They have decent looking peavy cable 500' for 200 as well.

EDIT...well it does say Soft Pvc shell.but I guess everyone has a different softness tolerance. No Standard Softness Ratings...

 

[ThisBass]

Don't recall the stats on the PAs (there have been at least 3 different ones at 3 different practice spaces that I know were hooked up with instrument cables), but I know for a fact that my friend had been using his 500 watt 210 + 115 GK rig with guitar cables to the speakers at gig volumes for years before I even met him.

I had been playing with him through his rig for months and even did a couple shows on it before I bothered to look more closely at his "speaker" cables.

I eventually convinced him to do it the right way.

That's a funny story that reminds me back in the past when I was a 18yo young guy.
I had no idea about the difference of speaker and instrument cables. To me all these cables where just like the same, essential a cable had to have a 1/4" phone plug.

And so I run my 70's svt full stack with instrument cables a very long time on many sessions and gigs, I run the stack this way until the moment somone told me about the essential difference of speaker and instrument cables.

And I have to admit I was sometimes wondering about the slight heating of my 20 foot long "speaker cable"

 

[beans-on-toast]

For speakon cables, I buy two-conductor General Cable - Carol (US made), 18 AWG or 12 AWG power cord by the yard from Home Depot. It is flexible and comes with a rubber jacket. For four-conductor cable, I use 18 AWG Belden 8454 from Surplus Sales of Nebraska. Similar specs to the Carol cable but four conductors. For speakers cables I have used the clear lamp style cord like you bought. I also use two conductor Carol cable.

When it comes to shielded cable, pay attention to the capacitance per foot. The density of the braid will vary from product to product. This affects how well the cable will shield from noise. There is a price to pay for better shielding. When you look at the shield, a higher density shield often has finer wires and the braid is tight. A tighter braid means less gaps that expose the inner cable. Look at the specifications here as an example. Shielding can be expressed as a percentage of coverage and the number can typically vary from 100% down to 70%.

There are always cost/performance tradeoffs, both electrical and mechanical, when it comes to better specs.

 

[ThisBass]

For speakon cables, I buy two-conductor General Cable - Carol (US made), 18 AWG or 12 AWG power cord by the yard from Home Depot. It is flexible and comes with a rubber jacket. For four-conductor cable, I use 18 AWG Belden 8454 from Surplus Sales of Nebraska. Similar specs to the Carol cable but four conductors. For speakers cables I have used the clear lamp style cord like you bought. I also use two conductor Carol cable.

When it comes to shielded cable, pay attention to the capacitance per foot. The density of the braid will vary from product to product. This affects how well the cable will shield from noise. There is a price to pay for better shielding. When you look at the shield, a higher density shield often has finer wires and the braid is tight. A tighter braid means less gaps that expose the inner cable. Look at the specifications here as an example. Shielding can be expressed as a percentage of coverage and the number can typically vary from 100% down to 70%.

There are always cost/performance tradeoffs, both electrical and mechanical, when it comes to better specs.

I prefere cables with a braid like this one:
http://media.digikey.com/photos/Alpha Wire Photos/3231 SL005.JPG

That's why my favorite microphone/XLR cable is Tasker C128
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[Coolhandjjl]

The problem with the speaker cable you linked is that style is for permanent and semi-permanent installations. It will not lay flat on the floor, has a tendancy kink up and create a tripping hazard. One layer on insulation is too risky for an application where carts, casters, heels, and what not will be traveling over it on a regular basis. The pro stuff has each conductor insulated, and both are in another sleeve of protection again. It is super flexible, and will lay flat along the floor, and snugs in more securely into the ends of speakon and 1/4 jacks. For speaker cable, consider this Carol 12ga or 14ga. No need for 10ga.
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You may be able to buy it in bulk to your exact needs, ask them.

Here 's a great article on instrument cables and capacitance:
http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/How_to_Choose_a_14_Cable
Problem is, many bulk instrument cable manufacturers do not list capacitance (expressed in terms of pico farads/foot.) For live performances, pay attention to overly long cable runs. A cable with a high rating of 45pF/ft that is run over a 20' length may result in the loss of some highs. Not a big deal for a bluesman, but a slapper may be disappointed. I have two ready-made instrument cables, a 15' Lava that is 25pF/ft, and a 12' DiMarzio that is 35pF/ft. To my ears, they sound the same.

 

[B-string]

More snakes Link Removed on sale at MCM.

 

[ggunn]

I've used multiple PA's and bass rigs that had been hooked up with guitar cables for years with no incident.

Everything is always fine until it isn't. The risk is there even if the probability is not especially high, and when it becomes a problem, damage to equipment often ensues. I haven't been in a car wreck in many years, but I always use my seat belt anyway.

 

[B-string]

I suppose if you don't have paying gigs and lots of disposable income for your hobby then the risk doesn't matter. Losing a gig because your stuff fried by using the wrong cable too many times only speaks to your dedication and professionalism?

 

[ggunn]

I suppose if you don't have paying gigs and lots of disposable income for your hobby then the risk doesn't matter. Losing a gig because your stuff fried by using the wrong cable too many times only speaks to your dedication and professionalism?

I don't know anyone in that position who would willingly accept such easily mitigated risk once they know about it.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I suppose if you don't have paying gigs and lots of disposable income for your hobby then the risk doesn't matter. Losing a gig because your stuff fried by using the wrong cable too many times only speaks to your dedication and professionalism?

Yup, Do it right, do it once. No sense spreading misinformation. These forums are supposed to keep the level of quality at its highest.