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Cables
- Thread starter Mr_Shrapnel
- Start date
ok thanks, i will check out some of those suggestions, but do guys find that the longer the cable, the lower the sound quality is output? i mean im not too sure cos i have only ever had one length of cable, but i know this is the case with my hi-fi set up.
No.Tim__x said:
Physics.Tim__x said:
They don't. "Consonant Alloy" that's more conductive than pure copper - gimme a break. It's quite telling that the link to the respective tech paper doesn't work.Tim__x said:
Interesting, a Klotz cable like my homemade one seems to outperform the Monster in this test.
http://www.justjazzguitar.com/artic...nline&sub=articles&article=art-11-cables.php3
http://www.justjazzguitar.com/artic...nline&sub=articles&article=art-11-cables.php3
I don't think any knowledgable person would argue that different instrument cables will sound different among brands.
The tone control circuit (in a passive bass) consists of a pot and a capacitor in paralell with the cable.
All instrument cables, regardless of brand exhibit series resistance and paralell capacitance. This resistance and capacitance add to the r/c circuit in the tone control circuit of the bass.
All cables with a different value of R/C will,to some extent, sound differently. With test equiptment, it is easily measurable.
Notice that I
said that there will be a difference but I didn't say there would be an improvement. The terms better and improved are purely subjective. What may sound better to one listener may not sound as good to another listener.
All instrument cables become a part of the tone control circuit when they are plugged into the signal chain.
For an instrument cable to really be an improvement over conventional cable technology, It would have to exhibit ZERO resistance and capacitance and the output signal would be exactly the same form and amplitude of the input signal. An impossibility for practical purposes.
That is pure and simple BASIC electronics and it adheres 100% to the laws of physics. Monster cables, to do as Tara claims must violate the laws of physics or they are selling snake oil. One or the other. Pure and simple!
The claims made for the Tara power cable are apparently made by a super sales person or a technical IDIOT. Believe as you wish. If logic doesn't work for you, you are on your own.
Harrell S.
The tone control circuit (in a passive bass) consists of a pot and a capacitor in paralell with the cable.
All instrument cables, regardless of brand exhibit series resistance and paralell capacitance. This resistance and capacitance add to the r/c circuit in the tone control circuit of the bass.
All cables with a different value of R/C will,to some extent, sound differently. With test equiptment, it is easily measurable.
Notice that I
said that there will be a difference but I didn't say there would be an improvement. The terms better and improved are purely subjective. What may sound better to one listener may not sound as good to another listener.
All instrument cables become a part of the tone control circuit when they are plugged into the signal chain.
For an instrument cable to really be an improvement over conventional cable technology, It would have to exhibit ZERO resistance and capacitance and the output signal would be exactly the same form and amplitude of the input signal. An impossibility for practical purposes.
That is pure and simple BASIC electronics and it adheres 100% to the laws of physics. Monster cables, to do as Tara claims must violate the laws of physics or they are selling snake oil. One or the other. Pure and simple!
The claims made for the Tara power cable are apparently made by a super sales person or a technical IDIOT. Believe as you wish. If logic doesn't work for you, you are on your own.
Harrell S.
JMX said:
I use Planet Waves cables, because they are extremely reliable. I've never had one fail, something I can't say about cheaper cables. I've been using one for two years on every gig and every rehearsal, and it is like new.
And yes, I can solder very well. I've been doing it for a living for 20 years. I would rather own a cable that doesn't need to be soldered than have to use my soldering skills.
That's perfectly ok, but I still recommend to a young teenage novice bassist that he learns to solder a cable, and not blow 100$ of their parent's money on a boutique cable for a 20W practice amp.
Mine never failed in over 10 years.
Mine never failed in over 10 years.
JMX said:
JMX,
I notice that you are from Germany, which is where Klotz is headquartered. This may account for some of your opinions regarding "snake oil" and "boutique cables".
The fact is that Klotz is not readily available in the US and is rather expensive when compared to most cables here. If you consider Klotz and Neutrik as an inexpensive cable, then that would account for your perspective that "boutique cables" are snake oil and not worth the money. Klotz is probably considered by most bass players in the US as BEING a boutique cable.
When deciding which cable that our store would represent, we wanted to offer the highest quality cable, within reason.
Our staff performed our own "shoot-out" between Monster, ProCo, George-L, and Klotz. Granted, we didn't try every cable on the market, and we eliminated some of the cables carried by GC and some of the other local "super stores".
Our staff agreed that Klotz LaGrange was the winner by a nose over the ProCo Lifelines, followed by the Monster 100, the Monster 500 (interestingly), and lastly the George L (.225). The Klotz T.M. Stevens cables were unavailable at the time of our testing.
The Klotz LaGrange is priced (firmly by the Distributor) at $79.99 US for a 20-foot cable. This is on the high end of what most bass-players are using here. In fact, we have gotten extremely few inquiries about these, probably for that reason.
IMO, there is a discernible difference in the performance of high-end cables. However, when playing in a live environment, I doubt that ANYONE could tell much difference.
For recording, yes. But most live situations, NO. This makes the choice of a cable dependent upon application, price, and warranty. The fact is that Monster's warranty is hard to beat, even though we hear complaints frequently that they are not very sturdy. But if you carry a few backups, who cares?
Regarding the $200 price tag on a Tara Labs cable: IMO, I would expect that there would be diminishing returns after a certain price point, but I've never tried one. But I can't imagine that there could be a $120 improvement over a Klotz LaGrange, at least not to MY ear. But I DO strongly agree
that it seems rather silly to spend $2500 on a high-end bass, and play with a "give-away" GC cable through a POS amp.
Your sound is only as good as the weakest link in your signal.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Randy
JMX said:
JMX,
I agree. However, the link that you provided was for guitar and not for bass. We were astonished by the poor performance of the George L cable, given that they are one of the top picks by guitar players and critics. They were nowhere close to anything else, even the Monster. And we used the thicker .225 George L cable. Our only explanation was that it was somehow not balanced for bass signal. I'm not a physicist or engineer, so that's as technical an explanation as I can give. But the Klotz ended up on top of both shootouts. (But the Tara Labs was not tested).
Jacochops --- just for fun, I'd like to try a Tara. I'm always a seeker of the Holy Grail. And if I don't like it, I can always use it to oil my pet garter snake.
Randy
Whoa, you got me there, I just posted this one for fun to show that Monster doesn't seem to perform better than others - and the fact that I used Kotz cable as an example.
I don't even use the Lagrange but just regular Klotz cable which is no more expensive than other cable you find in a PA store.
A German mag tested cables a while back, with thorough measurements and the result was that there was no significant difference in performance between a regular cheap cable and expensive ones like Monster.
I don't even use the Lagrange but just regular Klotz cable which is no more expensive than other cable you find in a PA store.
A German mag tested cables a while back, with thorough measurements and the result was that there was no significant difference in performance between a regular cheap cable and expensive ones like Monster.
Making your own cables is ok if you are so inclined, but I don't think it's a good suggestion for everybody. Some people don't have the time or skills to do it.
I don't believe the claims of Tara or Monster, BUT Monster cables are really good cables as are planet waves. I say buy a monster or planet waves because your buying a good quality product. They're built well...might not sound any different.
I don't believe the claims of Tara or Monster, BUT Monster cables are really good cables as are planet waves. I say buy a monster or planet waves because your buying a good quality product. They're built well...might not sound any different.
JMX said:
JMX,
I first became a believer when the guitar player at church handed me a Proco Lifeline cable between tunes and told me to try it. I was using a lower quality Proco cable at the time.
When I plugged in, there was a noticeable difference and I even had to turn my amp down. So I now try to use higher quality cables, within reason. I think that the lowest line Klotz cable is probably better than most other cables on the US market, including Monster. How much does a Monster-100, 20-foot, cost in Germany (in USD)? I'll bet they're more expensive there, just as Klotz are more expensive HERE.
Randy
Just thought that Id mention that as an Ex- Guitar Center employee I saw my fair share of broken Planet Waves cables that got stuck in customers guitars, amps, stompboxes etc..... They might not have come back as often as the Monster cables (would you return something if it wasnt returnable?) but when they did come back it scared the poop out of me seeing it stuck inside the instruments. We often had to break the cable and plug into pieces to get it out.Showdown said:
I would never use them because of this.
Peace
Nick
But thats not what Im talking about.
The plannet waves have this spring like ring at their base that works to push against the inside of the jack ensuring good tight connection.
The problem is that sometimes things go wrong with them and they get horribly stuck to the point that you have to break it into pieces to get it out.
Peace
Nick
The plannet waves have this spring like ring at their base that works to push against the inside of the jack ensuring good tight connection.
The problem is that sometimes things go wrong with them and they get horribly stuck to the point that you have to break it into pieces to get it out.
Peace
Nick
Oh and while I agree that they are harder to fix, they are also harder to break and I dont think fixing a cable backstage is something you should ever have to do. Bring a backup.
Peace
Nick
Peace
Nick
A backup is a given, but I had to help out enough people with my soldering iron.
Sealed cables are not necessarily harder to break, especially when you use Neutriks.
Sealed cables are not necessarily harder to break, especially when you use Neutriks.
Exactly! Which is why I would never buy a $200 cable, I think that my pickups are probably the weakest link right now. I do buy the $25 cables rather than the $8 cables. At that price point you can see the difference.Bass Atlanta said:
My current favorites are Radial Vintage Tweed. When practicing, I walk all over my cable and I believe that the tweed cover handles this better than the rubber. I do know that this cable has lasted longer than other cables of similar quality. JMX: you would hate these, the ends are sealed. The salesman said it was for strength blah blah blah but I think it is really to keep the tweed from unraveling.
Yikes! I have one of these I bought to try to solve an amp hum problem (thought it might be grounding issues). I only use them when playing "out", but I will keep a close watch on the ends. No good having a backup if I can't unplug it!Nick man said:
