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California to cut prison population

California cutting prison population good news or bad?

  • Good news

    Votes: 24 39.3%

  • Bad news

    Votes: 13 21.3%

  • Make them farm carrots

    Votes: 24 39.3%
  • Total voters
    61
Status
Not open for further replies.
#101
nortonrider said:
Your government knows more that you, that's why they're in charge.
Click to expand...

oh God, are you serious??? :eyebrow:

A government is nothing more than a select group of people who maintain order of the rest of the people. There's nothing intrinsically "elite" about them!

"Let's all trust the government! We voted them in, so they must be right!"

sheep.jpg
 
#102
Hard drugs should be legalized and taxed. With part of the tax monies going to build rehab centers and staffing 'em.

I'm all for letting hardcore dopers talking their poison 'til they die. Problem solved.
If they want help, make it available so they may lead productive lives. Don't throw 'em into prison where they learn more horrible "trades".
 
#103
ryco said:
Hard drugs should be legalized and taxed. With part of the tax monies going to build rehab centers and staffing 'em.

I'm all for letting hardcore dopers talking their poison 'til they die. Problem solved.
If they want help, make it available so they may lead productive lives. Don't throw 'em into prison where they learn more horrible "trades".
Click to expand...


*Heavenly chorus*

ah, the solution! :D
 
#104
ryco said:
Hard drugs should be legalized and taxed. With part of the tax monies going to build rehab centers and staffing 'em.

I'm all for letting hardcore dopers talking their poison 'til they die. Problem solved.
If they want help, make it available so they may lead productive lives. Don't throw 'em into prison where they learn more horrible "trades".
Click to expand...

Problem is, sometimes people don't realize they need help until it is too late. They need other people to force it on to them.
 
#105
It's not the drugs; it's the war
What's going on? Why are we doing this?

It's not the drugs
It's the war
Nothing about the War on Drugs makes any sense in the context of drugs
Everything about the War on Drugs makes sense in the context of war
We aren't running the War on Drugs because we want to eradicate drugs
We're running the War on Drugs because we want to have a war.
More specifically, we're running the War on Drugs because it serves the interests of people in this country.

The United States is a democracy. Nothing

this big
this expensive
this destructive
can go on in the United States—for decades—without broad-based political support. The War on Drugs has constituencies. It has groups of people who support it because it serves their interests.

These groups don't have to support the War on Drugs for the same reasons. They don't have to support it for good reasons. They don't even have to support it for coherent reasons. All that is necessary for the War on Drugs to continue is that enough people get something out of it, and that it doesn't seriously inconvenience the middle class, which it doesn't.

Constituencies
So who are these groups? Who are the constituents of the War on Drugs? Let's start with the obvious ones.

The War on Drugs is an employment program for law enforcement. The War on Drugs employs
everyone in the Drug Enforcement Administration
people in the FBI, the INS, and the border patrol
state and local police officers
judges, and prosecuting attorneys, and defense attorneys
prison wardens, and prison guards
The War on Drugs has a big payroll, and everyone on that payroll has some interest in seeing the war continue.
The War on Drugs supports the prison industry. Since we've put 2 million people behind bars, building, supplying, and running prisons has become big business. This alignment of government and business in running the prison system is sometimes called the prison-industrial complex.
The War on Drugs serves the government. The government needs bogeymen. It needs threats that can be used to justify
military intervention
foreign intelligence operations
greater domestic police powers
For many years, the international communist conspiracy played this role, but that hasn't been so credible since communism collapsed 10 years ago. Today, the government invokes the specter of international drug cartels when it needs to generate support for some extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise ill-advised use of force.

The War on Drugs serves the military-industrial complex. Last year, President Clinton asked for, and received, 1.3 billion dollars to send to Columbia to help them fight our War on Drugs. Of course, we didn't send a billion three in cash to Columbia, or even something moderately useful, like food or medicine. We sent them weapons. Built, of course, by American companies.
The War on Drugs serves politicians. Politicians

need simple, emotional issues to drive their campaigns
need issues that make good sound bites
need issues that polarize discussion, so that they can claim the high ground, and label their opponents weak, or naive, or evil
 
#107
nortonrider said:
It's not the drugs; it's the war
What's going on? Why are we doing this?

It's not the drugs
It's the war
Nothing about the War on Drugs makes any sense in the context of drugs
Everything about the War on Drugs makes sense in the context of war
We aren't running the War on Drugs because we want to eradicate drugs
We're running the War on Drugs because we want to have a war.
More specifically, we're running the War on Drugs because it serves the interests of people in this country.

The United States is a democracy. Nothing

this big
this expensive
this destructive
can go on in the United States—for decades—without broad-based political support. The War on Drugs has constituencies. It has groups of people who support it because it serves their interests.

These groups don't have to support the War on Drugs for the same reasons. They don't have to support it for good reasons. They don't even have to support it for coherent reasons. All that is necessary for the War on Drugs to continue is that enough people get something out of it, and that it doesn't seriously inconvenience the middle class, which it doesn't.

Constituencies
So who are these groups? Who are the constituents of the War on Drugs? Let's start with the obvious ones.

The War on Drugs is an employment program for law enforcement. The War on Drugs employs
everyone in the Drug Enforcement Administration
people in the FBI, the INS, and the border patrol
state and local police officers
judges, and prosecuting attorneys, and defense attorneys
prison wardens, and prison guards
The War on Drugs has a big payroll, and everyone on that payroll has some interest in seeing the war continue.
The War on Drugs supports the prison industry. Since we've put 2 million people behind bars, building, supplying, and running prisons has become big business. This alignment of government and business in running the prison system is sometimes called the prison-industrial complex.
The War on Drugs serves the government. The government needs bogeymen. It needs threats that can be used to justify
military intervention
foreign intelligence operations
greater domestic police powers
For many years, the international communist conspiracy played this role, but that hasn't been so credible since communism collapsed 10 years ago. Today, the government invokes the specter of international drug cartels when it needs to generate support for some extra-legal, unconstitutional, or otherwise ill-advised use of force.

The War on Drugs serves the military-industrial complex. Last year, President Clinton asked for, and received, 1.3 billion dollars to send to Columbia to help them fight our War on Drugs. Of course, we didn't send a billion three in cash to Columbia, or even something moderately useful, like food or medicine. We sent them weapons. Built, of course, by American companies.
The War on Drugs serves politicians. Politicians

need simple, emotional issues to drive their campaigns
need issues that make good sound bites
need issues that polarize discussion, so that they can claim the high ground, and label their opponents weak, or naive, or evil
Click to expand...


so, basically, we should continue to unjustly limit the rights of millions because some people are getting rich off of inflicting punishment and suffering? :rollno:


wow, I bow before the inestimable powers of your supreme logic :scowl:
 
#110
IconBasser said:
I think you're fat. You obviously don't seem to realize it. I think I'll force you to run ten miles every day and lock you in jail for eating cake!
Click to expand...


And I am ok with that.

If you look at my previous posts I am not for putting druggies into jail but rather then jail we can spend same amount of money and force them into rehab which might help them.

I would propose a program that will send people with drug problem into rehab for several weeks/months and then have a probation to check up on them.


Being fat is slightly different because it does not effect my brain as drugs do there for i am not very much danger to society. Drugs and alcohol generally make people "different" and could cause problems for society.

As far as me being fat, I realize that if i keep this up I'll be dead before 30 so i am trying. But help would help. :)
 
#111
Dude!
Drugs were never the issue here, it's all about the money.
Why are they willing to relax their stance on "demon drugs" now? Because there's no longer enough money in it.

Its a game, a money making venture wrapped up in the veil of morality.

Amazing how many "Officials" are willing to forgo their "Moral Standards" as soon as the money dries up. You obviously didn't read my first post.
 
#113
nortonrider said:
Dude!
Drugs were never the issue here, it's all about the money.
Why are they willing to relax their stance on "demon drugs" now? Because there's no longer enough money in it.

Its a game, a money making venture wrapped up in the veil of morality.

Amazing how many "Officials" are willing to forgo their "Moral Standards" as soon as the money dries up. You obviously didn't read my first post.
Click to expand...


I read it, I thought you were lambasting the posters here, not the people in government
 
#114
nortonrider said:
The powers that be in our country have determined that getting stoned is such bad thing that they have declared a "war on drugs".
Now that $$$$ is tight, are they now just gonna call it a "disagreement on drugs"?

If getting high was so bad a year ago that peoples lives were ruined over it,
What's changed?

Just the profit margins.
Click to expand...

before the thirties cannabis was perfectly legal. the first cannabis law was that all farmers were required to grow a quantity of it. even after it was criminalized [just after alcohol prohibition failed and organized crime was thriving like never before] they pushed citizens to grow pot in world war 2. "hemp for victory!" remember?

'what's changed? the profit margins.'

a quick study of history shows that prohibition is a gift of revenue to organized crime. so i hope the profit margins are changing.

again, please learn about the history of cannabis law. it's obvious you don't have a full grasp on how they work and what they're for.

some of the 'antisocial' activities that 'potheads' engage in that caused marijuana to be criminalized at a federal level: causes a negro to look at a white woman twice, stand on a white man's shadow, laugh at a white person. it also causes white women to seek relations with unsavory races, listen to satanic music including jazz and swing.

charles whitebread. marijuana historian. look it up for ****'s sake. :)
 
#116
What most here don't realize is that the housing of humans in a setting called a prison is no more different than the housing of livestock. Prisons are an industry where those who run and own prisons are in the business of making money. The more inmates that are in the system the more money that is made. The housing of humans is so big that there is a whole industry called private prisons.

California is hurting financially like any other city in America today. And Cali can use more bodies to feel the empty space from the inmates that will be released.


Prisons for many reasons utilize a revolving door method of business.

A very large % of the inmates who are released and that is just fine for the prion industry because The industry never loses,especially with new inmates coming in, the release of those who are already incarcerated, the return of a large % of those who will be released and it doesn't matter whether they are/were locked up for a none violent offense or a violent one.

The rehabilitation of a inmate has never existed. That's what the politicians and those who run the prisons have always wanted people to believe.

Rehabilitation is only achieved when the incarcerated chooses to change within self and that is and will always be the only form of rehabilitation.
 
#119
I've said it once, I'll say it again, they better let go of all the crack heads and pot dealers before they let out the child rapists. And yes, Kalifornia is sh!t. Oh, yeah, legalize weed and the growers will profit, there is not an overabundance of pot clubs in CA, the feds are still closing them down, and the state is $40 billion in the red. Weed ain't gonna save us. People will grow and take it back underground before they get their balls taxed off. Food for thought.
 
#120
Time Monkey said:
Well, in that case... I say shoot them. Donate the bodies to medical schools.
Click to expand...

One slight problem- you'd have to change the law on the collection of dead bodies for this kind of thing. Certainly in the UK you have to volunteer your body in advance, have signed witnesses and even then it's still not a guarantee.

sandmangeck said:
i think prisons teach unhardened criminals to be hardened. im up for the decrimilization of cannabis. :hyper:
Click to expand...

I agree lots. Most of the people I know who use cannabis are pretty normal people.

baba said:
I know there is an enormous prison industry that must be fighting this tooth and nail. We'll see whether corporate interests prevail. The madness has to stop at some point, and I think it starts with reevaluating the drug war. I don't have any answers, but I do know that what is happening now is not working.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately in a capitalist society money nearly always comes first.

MatticusMania said:
Lets just lock all the criminals up in a large arena, give them some crazy weapons, and let them deathbowl it up. Last man standing wins his life, and a permanent vacation on an island in the carribean.
Click to expand...

The Romans were 2500 years ahead of you- they called this the gladiator battle.
 
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