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Calling All Small 4ohm Cabs

#21
It's discontinued, and not a 112 or 210, but the Yamaha BBT110s is a 4 ohm 1x10 (+ tweet) and it kicks arse! I played a few gigs with that and my former amp (Thunderfunk) and it blew me away. Can't wait to gig with it and my LMII.

-Aram
 
#22
Another thing to think about here is the efficiency of the cab, and also the absolute size, number of speakers, and power handling capability when making 4ohm/8ohm decisions.

For example, I can see very little reason to get any 110 cab in 4ohm version (most of them only come 8 ohms anyway, so another way to say this is that I would not eliminate a 110 cab just because it is 8ohm). Most SS amps today put out at least 200 watts or more into an 8ohm impedance, which is more than enough to drive a small and relatively efficient single speaker cab like a 110. I would say the same thing for most 112's... 8ohm version is actually probably desirable.

For larger cabs like 210's, it gets a little more complicated. 210's with a lot of bass extension, like the Acme210B and the older EA VL's really do benefit from high wattage, so 4ohm versions of those are probably a good thing.

Even relatively efficient but high power handling 210's like the NL-210 and Epi210L can benefit from the additional wattage resulting from their 4ohm versions.

However, a cab like the SWR Goliath Jr, which has relatively low power handling capability, and farts out quite easily at high volumes, would be fine (and maybe even better) in 8ohm versions.

Obviously, the above is an overgeneralization, but I hope you get my point..... I wouldn't eliminate a small cab from consideration only because it was not available in 4ohm version, and I wouldn't necessarily get the 4ohm version of some small cabs even if it was available IMO.
 
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#25
fishtx said:
Can I ask why you are looking for a small 4 ohm cab (1x12 or 2x10)? I would think you would limit the application possibilities with having a small cab like that rated @ 4 ohms.
Click to expand...

Why Soi-tenly.
1st I use an Epi 410UL for my medium to large club gigs. Don't need an extension cab.
2nd I use a Berg NV215 for large or outside gigs. Don't need and extension cab.

I am interested in a small tote along cab for rehearsal and small gigs that is a 4ohm to get the most out of my ThunderFunk which to me isn't great with a non-efficient 8ohm single. IMO/IME.

I have been using my Berg HT112 for quite a while with the TF and it's really just OK. The little Berg can take alot of power and I usually have the TF pretty cranked. I'm not unhappy with it, just always looking to step up is all. I really love the TF and I'm also hoping Dave Funk will come out with a higher powered version. I really don't want to do the slave amp thing either. (I just sold my CA9 which was without a doubt the best most powerful pw/amp I've tried)(just way too big and heavy and I hardly used it)

I just received my new out of the box Mark Bass LMII last night. I am actually trying it out today at a company sponsored function with my Company Band. I will be using the LMII and the HT112 no PA support. This is exactly the setting I want to test it in. I tried it a bit last night and it's not better than my TF, just different. The short testing brings me to the place were most everyone else is on the LMII vs. the TF. It's flat setting has a bit more low mid thickness to it but not as punchie as TF. I'll report more later. I spent a few moments with these two amps into the 410UL also. So far, I pretty much prefer the TF, although the MB sounded very good. It's really a quite tweakable little amp. I'm sure I can find some very useable and likeable settings no matter what I plug into. Only thing ...both are 500w amps so it's kinda redundant, but right now I feel I will keep both. I'm hoping the LMII will be a better fit with the Bergs hence... I won't be needing another cab for awhile... yeah right. :smug:
 
#28
Ken, good points.
I've actually considered two Epi 110UL and plan on trying them. I might even re-visit the 210UL 4ohm if Scott still has it now that I have the LMII.

Why don't I just let you pick out my gear... :D

Another thing.
I'm starting to realize I like my Alder bass tone better than my Ash bass tone. I know this can make a difference and there are other contributing factors like pup and string choices. I'm moving very slowly on this one so I do not sell gear and later regret it. Too many times in the past I did not 'overlap' my gear hence missing out on a possilbe great match up. Impulse can lead to much more spending and frustration. Just keep everything like you know who.... screw the carpet :cool:
 
#32
Aram said:
It's discontinued, and not a 112 or 210, but the Yamaha BBT110s is a 4 ohm 1x10 (+ tweet) and it kicks arse! I played a few gigs with that and my former amp (Thunderfunk) and it blew me away. Can't wait to gig with it and my LMII.

-Aram
Click to expand...

How loud a gig was that with the TF and the Yamaha? I just picked up a LMII and love how it sounds with one of my Yamaha 110s, but am a bit afraid to push it hard at all. I don't want to blow the Yamaha. But, wow, does it sound good with EB and KYDD EUB- even w/o separate pre-amp.

-Spc
 
#33
spcmstrbtasp said:
How loud a gig was that with the TF and the Yamaha? I just picked up a LMII and love how it sounds with one of my Yamaha 110s, but am a bit afraid to push it hard at all. I don't want to blow the Yamaha. But, wow, does it sound good with EB and KYDD EUB- even w/o separate pre-amp.

-Spc
Click to expand...

Very loud. In fact, it was the closest thing to a metal band I have played in in some time. Two Marshall half stacks and drummer using a double pedal. Granted the guitar players aren't obnoxious, and the drummer is pretty controlled, but there was still a lot of stage volume.

There was PA support, so I'm not going to contend that the BBT was filling the room, but everyone on stage heard me perfectly, and it served as an excellent monitor in the absence of actual working stage monitors. This gig was at the downstairs at CBGBs a few months ago. I'll see if I can find some sound clips from that gig...I think the soundman recorded it.

I believe that BBT can take what the TF can put into it, within reason. I generally am a fan of having more power than a cabinet's RMS rating, and using my ears to detect any potential speaker abuse. This cab handled quite a bit of juice from the TF, and I didn't hear any breaking up at all. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how effective a well-designed small cabinet like the BBT can be at a gig.

-Aram
 
#34
Would you agree that the BBT has a notable limit though with regard to frequency?

I was playing around with my LMII and a BBT today and with the controls flat, and the gain on about 1:00 and the Master at 8:00 (barely up at all). I was able to push the excursion limit of the speaker with gentle (dub like ) notes on the low B of both a Lakland 5501NTMB and a Warwick Corvette std 6 with the bass control on the instrument boosted (and not all the way). The clip light on the LMII was not triggered, but the speaker bottomed out. This kinda scared me.

I know that I was asking something somewhat unrealistic to test the low frequency limits- I rarely ever boost the Lakland's bass controls past center in real world playing, but today I found out this amp and speaker combination couldn't handle it. Is this consistent with your experience? Does the TF have better control of lows, or could I perhaps have a defective speaker on my hands? Things sound great with flat eq settings by the way, but now I'm cautious about turning this combination up to gig level volume.

PS, Id' be interested in hearing those clips if you can find them Aram.
 
#35
spcmstrbtasp said:
Would you agree that the BBT has a notable limit though with regard to frequency?

I was playing around with my LMII and a BBT today and with the controls flat, and the gain on about 1:00 and the Master at 8:00 (barely up at all). I was able to push the excursion limit of the speaker with gentle (dub like ) notes on the low B of both a Lakland 5501NTMB and a Warwick Corvette std 6 with the bass control on the instrument boosted (and not all the way). The clip light on the LMII was not triggered, but the speaker bottomed out. This kinda scared me.

I know that I was asking something somewhat unrealistic to test the low frequency limits- I rarely ever boost the Lakland's bass controls past center in real world playing, but today I found out this amp and speaker combination couldn't handle it. Is this consistent with your experience? Does the TF have better control of lows, or could I perhaps have a defective speaker on my hands? Things sound great with flat eq settings by the way, but now I'm cautious about turning this combination up to gig level volume.

PS, Id' be interested in hearing those clips if you can find them Aram.
Click to expand...

I haven't gigged with the LMII/BBT combination yet -- the first gig where I'll need my own rig again is slated for 5/17, so I won't know for a while. I'll reserve my comments about that combination until the gig.

I'm not sure I understand the practicality of your test, though, since it sounds like you're boosting the low frequencies to levels you don't typically use. I wouldn't extrapolate that to the cab not being able to handle volume at a gig level, but yes, I would definitely say if you're (for example) in a reggae band, and you need super lows, you're going to want something bigger than a single 110 cabinet. I think the only way to tell if it'll suit your needs at a gig is to practice with the band you're playing with and see if it still bottoms out.

I was pleasantly surprised when I set up for the CB's gig and found that I could hear myself (and others on stage could hear me) with just the 110 and the TF. In fact, I had even brought an additional 1x10 combo, because I didn't think the BBT would cut it on it's own...that combo sat off stage for the show.

As far as your question about the low end control, the TFB is a great amp, but I'm really not too worried about my LMII replacing it. To me the difference wasn't worth the weight/cost of owning the TFB, so I sold it. I'll let you know definitively on May 17th if I regret that decision.

Big String, sorry about the thread hijack. spcmstrbtasp, send me a PM with your email address, and I'll try to get you a sound clip of a song or two from that gig.

-Aram
 
#36
Aram said:
I haven't gigged with the LMII/BBT combination yet -- the first gig where I'll need my own rig again is slated for 5/17, so I won't know for a while. I'll reserve my comments about that combination until the gig.
Click to expand...

Understood. I appreciate your response.

Aram said:
I'm not sure I understand the practicality of your test, though, since it sounds like you're boosting the low frequencies to levels you don't typically use. I wouldn't extrapolate that to the cab not being able to handle volume at a gig level, but yes, I would definitely say if you're (for example) in a reggae band, and you need super lows, you're going to want something bigger than a single 110 cabinet. I think the only way to tell if it'll suit your needs at a gig is to practice with the band you're playing with and see if it still bottoms out.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was just interested to see what I had in reserve, so I wanted to see how far I could push it at low volume. I wouldn't choose a 1x10 for dub reggae either.



Aram said:
Big String, sorry about the thread hijack. spcmstrbtasp, send me a PM with your email address, and I'll try to get you a sound clip of a song or two from that gig.

-Aram
Click to expand...

My apologies for the thread hijack as well. I still think the yamaha cab is worth noting as a small 4ohm cab with serious capability.
 
#38
Big String said:
Ken, good points.
I've actually considered two Epi 110UL and plan on trying them. I might even re-visit the 210UL 4ohm if Scott still has it now that I have the LMII.

Why don't I just let you pick out my gear... :D

Another thing.
I'm starting to realize I like my Alder bass tone better than my Ash bass tone. I know this can make a difference and there are other contributing factors like pup and string choices. I'm moving very slowly on this one so I do not sell gear and later regret it. Too many times in the past I did not 'overlap' my gear hence missing out on a possilbe great match up. Impulse can lead to much more spending and frustration. Just keep everything like you know who.... screw the carpet :cool:
Click to expand...

Hey Bigstring,

I missed a few threads in between so I'm not sure what you've checked out already but have you tried the NL210 yet? Based on everything you've said I can't help but think that either that or the 310UL is the answer. If the size of the 310 bugs you, the NL is a no brainer for me.

Come to NY ;) and check them all out. We'll help you find something that's just right!
 
#39
Big String said:
Why Soi-tenly.
1st I use an Epi 410UL for my medium to large club gigs. Don't need an extension cab.
2nd I use a Berg NV215 for large or outside gigs. Don't need and extension cab.

I am interested in a small tote along cab for rehearsal and small gigs that is a 4ohm to get the most out of my ThunderFunk which to me isn't great with a non-efficient 8ohm single. IMO/IME.

I have been using my Berg HT112 for quite a while with the TF and it's really just OK. The little Berg can take alot of power and I usually have the TF pretty cranked. I'm not unhappy with it, just always looking to step up is all. I really love the TF and I'm also hoping Dave Funk will come out with a higher powered version. I really don't want to do the slave amp thing either. (I just sold my CA9 which was without a doubt the best most powerful pw/amp I've tried)(just way too big and heavy and I hardly used it)

I just received my new out of the box Mark Bass LMII last night. I am actually trying it out today at a company sponsored function with my Company Band. I will be using the LMII and the HT112 no PA support. This is exactly the setting I want to test it in. I tried it a bit last night and it's not better than my TF, just different. The short testing brings me to the place were most everyone else is on the LMII vs. the TF. It's flat setting has a bit more low mid thickness to it but not as punchie as TF. I'll report more later. I spent a few moments with these two amps into the 410UL also. So far, I pretty much prefer the TF, although the MB sounded very good. It's really a quite tweakable little amp. I'm sure I can find some very useable and likeable settings no matter what I plug into. Only thing ...both are 500w amps so it's kinda redundant, but right now I feel I will keep both. I'm hoping the LMII will be a better fit with the Bergs hence... I won't be needing another cab for awhile... yeah right. :smug:
Click to expand...

i really loved the TF w/ my acme b2. seriously fat, thick tone for such a small box.
 
#40
Hey guys, I have a mesa powerhouse 2x10 600 watt 4ohm cab that I stand vertical and I feed with a mesa m9 carbine. I have to say, I can not believe how much clean volume and low end this thing can put out. I recently played a gig with a 9 piece funk band in an open tent where there wasn't enough channels to put the bass DI. Drums were mic'd, and everything else except me. I had the gain at around 10 30, and the volume at around 11 30 and the sound guy said you could feel and hear lots of bass in the whole tent! Of course the stage volume was a bit ridiculous with me having to fill the dance floor from the stage but my point is, this cab will handle just about anything you need it to in a live situation where you wouldn't think a 2x10 could cut it. (Seriously though freaking massive volume and low end from a single 2 x10!)
Keep on Rocking!
 

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