I guess if people have the option, they should listen to the guitar through as many cables as possible before buying at the store.
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Can a Cable Make That Much of a Difference?!
- Thread starter BigEarl
- Start date
Capacitance does this. It lowers the resonant peak of the pickup. A pickup's response starts with a relatively low end rolloff, then fairly flat response, then the resonant peak (around 1k-4k) which is a pretty steep peak that gives a pickup it's characteristic tone, followed by a steep rolloff. Adding capacitance moves the peak and the following treble rolloff lower.
The "fuller" tone you hear from a high capacitance cable is that peak being lowered and the loss of treble.
The less capacitance the cable has, the more natural bass tone is produced.
Now, this is only with passive instruments. An active bass is isolated from the loading effects of a cable, and all the above is null.
Characteristics important (especially for passive basses) are cable capacitance, percentage of shielding, cable handling noise, and cable flexibility. Shielding is rarely 100% as copper wiring is either wrapped or braided around the center conductor insulation. Some cables are as little as 50% shielded. 60-75% is not uncommon in cheap cables. Over 90% is pretty good.
Cable handling noise, or microphonics (when the cable acts somewhat like a microphone) is an issue. Not so much with an active bass.
If you use a pedalboard, the output of the board is likely buffered by one or more of the effects, so if you use a passive bass, the cable from bass to pedalboard is more important than the one from the board to the amp.
If you use a passive bass, flatwounds and roll the tone of the bass down, you won't hear cable differences as much as if you use roundwounds with the tone all the way up, as your signal will have less treble and a lowered peak already that may swamp the audible differences in cable capacitance.
Give me a well shielded, flexible cable with Switchcraft or Neurtik plugs anyday. I haven't gigged with a passive bass since 1976.
If you make your cables, put a drop of superglue between the strain relief and the rubber cable before you squeeze the strain relief on the cable. Superglue grabs rubber/vinyl well and will enhance holding of the cable. They will last longer before needing repairs.
I did amp repair at music stores for years. In one store, I did all the cable repairs. We sold Monster and many other brands of cables. I repaired more Monster cables than all other brands combined, and Monsters didn't sell that well. Give me a well built cable with Switchcraft or Neutrik ends, over Monster with lifetime warranty anyday. I would rather cables that last than cables that easily break and have to be repaired or replaced often.
The "fuller" tone you hear from a high capacitance cable is that peak being lowered and the loss of treble.
The less capacitance the cable has, the more natural bass tone is produced.
Now, this is only with passive instruments. An active bass is isolated from the loading effects of a cable, and all the above is null.
Characteristics important (especially for passive basses) are cable capacitance, percentage of shielding, cable handling noise, and cable flexibility. Shielding is rarely 100% as copper wiring is either wrapped or braided around the center conductor insulation. Some cables are as little as 50% shielded. 60-75% is not uncommon in cheap cables. Over 90% is pretty good.
Cable handling noise, or microphonics (when the cable acts somewhat like a microphone) is an issue. Not so much with an active bass.
If you use a pedalboard, the output of the board is likely buffered by one or more of the effects, so if you use a passive bass, the cable from bass to pedalboard is more important than the one from the board to the amp.
If you use a passive bass, flatwounds and roll the tone of the bass down, you won't hear cable differences as much as if you use roundwounds with the tone all the way up, as your signal will have less treble and a lowered peak already that may swamp the audible differences in cable capacitance.
Give me a well shielded, flexible cable with Switchcraft or Neurtik plugs anyday. I haven't gigged with a passive bass since 1976.
If you make your cables, put a drop of superglue between the strain relief and the rubber cable before you squeeze the strain relief on the cable. Superglue grabs rubber/vinyl well and will enhance holding of the cable. They will last longer before needing repairs.
I did amp repair at music stores for years. In one store, I did all the cable repairs. We sold Monster and many other brands of cables. I repaired more Monster cables than all other brands combined, and Monsters didn't sell that well. Give me a well built cable with Switchcraft or Neutrik ends, over Monster with lifetime warranty anyday. I would rather cables that last than cables that easily break and have to be repaired or replaced often.
Less difference I think, between the better quality made cables and more difference between low quality and higher quality made cables.
Its nonsense, but there defiantly is a difference when it comes to quality. For example, gold conducts better than silver and cheap connectors dont last as long as good connectors, but I cant hear a difference - and Im willing to bet you wouldnt pass a blind test either.
Pick up some RTA software, many free one available.
Loop the cable from input to output on your pc interface and measure it.
Works better than ears
My Korg DTR-1 rack tuner has a cable check feature. Very helpful indeed. I have a Monster cable that I use in my home studio set up, but the rest (with the exception of my balanced and shielded speaker cables) are either Hosa or Livewire. Livewire (like many brands these days) offers lifetime warranty replacement.
All you have to do is bring it to a store that sells their products, and swap it out. I don't have a ton of money to spend on cables. The cables I have bought have served me well so far, and it's Livewire cables that are in every case (I can get two or three Livewire cables for the cost of one Monster.
- Oct 18, 2012
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Really? According to your theory, materials make absolutely no difference as long as capacitance is ok. Capacitance is the ability to store an electrical charge. Cables do not store electricity, they simply transmit electrical signals. Since all metals have differing properties of conductivity, it makes sense that cables made with better quality metals will conduct electricity better than those of inferior quality and your bass should sound better.
bongomania
Commercial User
I'm sorry, but you really need to do some homework. "Makes sense" to an uneducated person is not the same as "how it actually works".
Ya. Not everything can be measured, but that which cannot belongs in the world of metaphysics, not science, physics, and engineering.
1. You have no idea if the cable sounded better. Human hearing has a (measured and documented) very poor memory for sound (measured in just a few seconds). The only way you could know is if you blind A/B'd them in the same location. Anything else is colored by your expectations.
2. Cables that are too thin can change your sound.
3. Bad solder joints can change your sound.
5. A poor connection between the plug and the jack can change your sound.
6. Shielding (in signal cables)
So, quality plugs, gold plating, high quality construction, and cables that are large enough gauge can all impact things. "Special" wire is the biggest claim by all the big buck manufacturers. If that wire truly impacts your sound in an audible way, then you better tear your cab and amp apart and replace all the factory wiring, cause I can guarantee you that the manufacturer didn't use it.
Good points about cables, but I'm going to vehemently disagree regarding that which cannot be measured belongs in the world of metaphysics, not science, physics, and engineering.
The cut-off between what can or cannot be measured is a fundamental core of the science of measurement. Therefore, what cannot be measured must be viewed as the future of science, physics, and engineering. Maybe there are obstacles that cannot be overcome, but if the goal of research is to learn more, then that which cannot be measured should be the prime goal of science rather than something relegated to science fiction.
If you are stagnant, then fine, let the unobtainable remain unobtainable. My sense is that science, physics, and engineering is the antithesis of being stagnant. At the same time, the goal may be unattainable. But that should not deter the true scientist, physicist, or engineer.
Large issue there in definitions. I was referring to that which cannot be measured - the realm of religion and metaphysics. You are referring to that which we cannot yet measure - too often the realm of pseudo-science. Of course, the devil can be in avoiding confusing the two.
With all due respect. Lots of deaf musicians on this board. Too bad. Loud music does that.
No one who hasn't tried a bunch of different cables side by side should be dissing the op.
As for me, the blanket on my speakers sound, came from a brand new cable I spent relatively big bucks on and I expected huge improvement in my sound. So much for preconceived ideas. I guess I could have convinced myself it sounded better.
Capacitance plays a big part, no doubt, but I'm always amazed that guys who think every little thing is important to the sound of their rigs, dismiss the cable as being completely unimportant.
No one who hasn't tried a bunch of different cables side by side should be dissing the op.
As for me, the blanket on my speakers sound, came from a brand new cable I spent relatively big bucks on and I expected huge improvement in my sound. So much for preconceived ideas. I guess I could have convinced myself it sounded better.
Capacitance plays a big part, no doubt, but I'm always amazed that guys who think every little thing is important to the sound of their rigs, dismiss the cable as being completely unimportant.
Large issue there in definitions. I was referring to that which cannot be measured - the realm of religion and metaphysics. You are referring to that which we cannot yet measure - too often the realm of pseudo-science. Of course, the devil can be in avoiding confusing the two.
See, now you've gone and ruined a perfectly good argument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c
The issue is not whether a cable conducts electricity better, it's whether any difference it makes is audible. Minor differences in resistance, for example, make no difference in your sound whatsoever. Capacitance, however, can make a difference. The "ability to store and electrical charge" is precisely why this is true; because of this effect, parallel parasitic capacitance can change the shape of an AC waveform by smoothing rapid changes, which we hear as loss of high frequencies.
All series resistance can do is reduce the amplitude of the waveform, and if it reduces the voltage swing from 1.000V to 0.995V, it will not make the slightest audible difference to your sound.
And yes, I know about time constants and how resistance and capacitance work together, but minor changes in resistance don't make an audible change unless the capacitance is relatively large.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
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You're confusing RF transmission with simple conductance of audio signals. An instrument cable, carrying signals in the electric bass frequency range, would have to be about a mile long to even begin to noticeably have transmission-line characteristics at 20 kHz, and 100 miles long to have comparable effect at 200 Hz (which would be of more concern to us bassists than 20 kHz).
No, not really.
That is true in the sense that an inexplicably incompetent cable designsay, its capacitance is so bizarrely high that it rolls off the highs excessivelyis inferior. But cable design has a pretty low threshold of competence; the electrical characteristics are pretty well understood, and knowledgeable players can benefit from that by knowing that excellent cables are not necessarily expensive.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
If you have the option, you should try as many forks as possible when you eat your dinner.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Silver actually conducts better than any metalit has a very slight advantage over copper. Gold, OTOH, does not develop surface corrosion in normal environments, so gold plating is a good way to maintain contact quality in connectors that don't get plugged and unplugged periodically.
