I want to have a modulation and delay effects loop with a biamp rig. Is this possible without any phasing issues? If so, how do you set it up?
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Can I simultaneously run a single effects loop through 2 amps while they are both being used?
- Thread starter direwolfvt
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes you can run an effects loop to two amps. You can even run two FX loops to two amps. But you will need one of these to do it...
Earthquaker Devices Swiss Thing Pedal Board Reconciler.
Loop One is unbuffered and it's recommended for drive type FX, compressors, etc...
Loop Two is buffered and recommended for modulation type FX, reverb, delay, phaser, flanger, etc...
It will also allow you to run to Amp A, or Amp B, or both amps at the same time. And it has an adjustable 20db boost built in as well. It also has a phase switch in case there are any phase issues when running two amps.
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I think this is a case where imprecise use of terminology is causing confusion. That would work for certain similar applications, but not for bi-amping as I at least understand the term.
Yeah fair point there. I think OP needs to clarify their actual situation before they can get accurate guidance.
yep, big difference between running two amps, and a single bi ampable amp. Definitely two totally different scenarios.
My apologies, I don’t know the correct terminology, I want to run both amps at the same time while I play. One is a pre amp with an effects loop send and return that will go direct and the other is an amplifier that will power cabinets, it also has effect loop send and return.
Not a problem. It's been a long day and my brain can't keep up either.
Probably not - you need dual mono to do that.
It may depend on if the OP is talking about bi-amping in the strict sense, or just a clean signal and an overdriven signal in parallel like John Entwistle. In the latter case there may not be a "crossover" in the strict sense.
It's not really clear what you are trying to achieve. Can you run the same effect through two amps? Yes. Send the signal to the effect and then split the signal after the effect and send it to both amps.
If you are splitting the signal to two amps that are both run full-range, I suggest calling it multi-amping or dual mono.
Biamping is a specific form of multi-amping. The most accepted definition of biamping involves using a crossover to split the signal into a high and low frequency band. Each band is sent to a dedicated power amp. Each power amp drives a speaker that is optimized for the specific frequency range it covers.
If you are splitting the signal to two amps that are both run full-range, I suggest calling it multi-amping or dual mono.
Biamping is a specific form of multi-amping. The most accepted definition of biamping involves using a crossover to split the signal into a high and low frequency band. Each band is sent to a dedicated power amp. Each power amp drives a speaker that is optimized for the specific frequency range it covers.
I'm still not clear on the setup.
Are two amplifiers being used and do both of them have speakers connected to them? If so, what signal is being fed to each amplifier?
Note: a preamp is not an amplifier and cannot directly drive a speaker.
Are two amplifiers being used and do both of them have speakers connected to them? If so, what signal is being fed to each amplifier?
Note: a preamp is not an amplifier and cannot directly drive a speaker.
Can you draw a block diagram illustrating what you have in mind? That might make it easier for people to understand your goals.
- Sep 21, 2011
- 149
- 169
- Disclosures
- I'm just a user/customer that plays gigs. I am not professionally affiliated with any vendor, etc.
I'm having trouble understanding the logic in this setup (note: I'm not 'questioning' it, per se, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning)... without knowing any better, I'd think that one amp with one effects loop and a Direct Out that has the speaker cabs would definitely suffice... I say that, because it doesn't sound like you're just trying to save your cabinets from any harsh sound, and let the house PA handle the brunt of any harsh (or even mega-low end) sound, a la DOD Meat Box...
When you have a moment, might we trouble you for the reasoning and what you're trying to achieve? If all I was going by was the initial question 'as I understand it', it sounds little more than just a routing scenario... Also, please confirm your current setup... is it as follows?:
Bass -> Pedalboard and/or Line Splitter...
...Splitter channel 1 -> Preamp
,,,Splitter channel 2 -> Amp with Cabinets
If you have 2 Boss LS-2 (Line Selector) pedals, perhaps you could do this?:
SETUP
Amp 1 FX SEND -> (1st) Boss LS-2 A RETURN
Amp 2 FX SEND -> (1st) Boss LS-2 B RETURN
1st Boss LS-2 OUTPUT -> Modulation and Delay effects -> (2nd) Boss LS-2 INPUT
(2nd) Boss LS-2 A SEND -> Amp 1 FX RETURN
(2nd) Boss LS-2 B SEND -> Amp 2 FX RETURN
Note: Set the MODE on both LS-2s to "A + B MIX"
@SharpCat (above) also mentioned the Electro-Harmonix Tri-Parallel Mixer... this is an AWESOME routing pedal, and 'could' also be an option (again, depending on how your current, and intended, setup)... though, I'm having trouble figuring out how that pedal, alone, could be used to complete the intended routing (...?)...
...bonus note: I'm not sure if any of the other amplifier technicians (and other folks WAY smarter than I am in this forum) could see issues with this, but again... without knowing any better, that's one method you could try.
Try this at your own risk!... Perhaps let's see what others say about my method before you try it, in case there's some kind of risk we're inviting in trying it...
Also, when it comes to 'phasing issues', there are likely a whole host of caveats that I can't speak to. So, my guess is 'yes, there is a risk of running into phasing issues'... but it's not something I can speak to confidently; I'm only 'guesstimating'... and with that... am having trouble imagining the sonic benefit at a gig... it's DEFINITELY fun to experiment with, buuuuuut...
(OK, smart folks... ...go go gadget red pen!)
\m/, ('o') ,\m/
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Thank you! My purpose of doing this setup is that I have heard that direct outs on amplifiers generally sound less good than that of a preamp made to go direct. Is this just a misconception?
- Sep 21, 2011
- 149
- 169
- Disclosures
- I'm just a user/customer that plays gigs. I am not professionally affiliated with any vendor, etc.
Soooooooooo... I can't say with confidence whether or not this is true... but for as many effects (and amp effect loops) as I'd used, I could never, ever tell the difference (and this ranges from "corner of the bar next to the Jukebox" to stages where national acts have played)... there may be differences, sure! Though, in a live setting, I just don't know that it'd make any notable difference for the effort involved...
...NOT meant to discourage you from trying... more trying to level-set any expectations from the reults, if that makes sense...
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- Sep 21, 2011
- 149
- 169
- Disclosures
- I'm just a user/customer that plays gigs. I am not professionally affiliated with any vendor, etc.
Ah, OK, totally. So, are you not yet using this setup? Is the JD7 something you already own, or are you planning on getting one to try this setup?
...asking, only because if you HADN'T gotten the JD7 yet, perhaps try a 3rd Boss LS-2 to use as your signal splitter at the front end to feed your 2 separate amps?
Bass -> (Source) Boss LS-2 INPUT
(Source) Boss LS-2 A SEND -> Amp 1 INPUT
(Source) Boss LS-2 B SEND -> Amp 2 INPUT
...then, the rest of the proposed setup from my post, above...
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