Can only upgrade PA by stages - what priority?

[Nickweissmusic]

Sub. Nothing will open up and boost your sound quality more than adding a sub (or 2) to your rig. It's like adding a good flash to a camera that has a little pop up flash- instantly more professional results. If you get good quality stuff, you're going to have it around for at least a decade, plenty of time to bring the rest of the gear up to par.

 

[DavC]

if you run things at 'Unity Gain' and keep things clean ( not to many flashing red lights ) ...

i'd ad ' subs ' ... i would think they would make your other speakers/amps work more efficiently and cleaner without having to process the low lows ..!! which makes thing seem louder / cleaner / better ..!!?? YMMV

 

[HolmeBass]

I voted monitors first, but then changed to mains, rotate the Carvins in as monitors, sell the 2 smallest Kustoms, keep with 3 monitors.

Monitors are pretty important. If the vocalists can't hear themselves on stage you might not want the audience hearing them out front, if ou know what I mean.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I'm also one of those who thinks you need to get a sub (ideally get two of them). Then I would go for the Mains but I wouldn't get 10's with the mains. I'd go 12's, especially since both the one's you are looking at are single 10" speakers for the low frequency driver. Getting a real sub will take that low-frequency pressure off the 110s and give you a much fuller sound. Upgrading to single 12" speakers means you won't always have to drag the big subs along - smaller and even some medium sized clubs will do just fine with two 112 mains whereas the 110's are what drove you to ask the question about what you should upgrade in the first place.

 

[zenman]

You may just have GAS. It sounds like to want to throw money that you don't have to fix a problem that may not exist. What you have may not be the ideal rig, but I have gigged worse. My advice is to learn the system that you have. If you have to spend some money, I would definitely add a powered sub or two. Then figure out what the weaknesses of the current system are. I understand the appeal of a digital mixer, but there are tons of great analog boards out there for cheap because folks are dumping them for digital. PA's can be a giant black hole where all the money goes, don't be in too big a hurry to throw your money in.

 

[bikeplate]

Nice set of mains then a digital board

 

[bassliner50]

Scrap (sell) it all. Get Alto powered speakers and a no frills Yamaha mixer. Light weight, unbelievable clarity and volume. I've learned from experience. So will you, (learn now or over vast time.)

 

[buldog5151bass]

The best mains you can get. Then subs, if everything is going through the PA.

My band puts everything through the PA (5 vocals, 2 guitars, keys, bass, drums), and at the smaller places we leave the subs home. I've had Kustom monitors - they work - I wouldn't want them for mains, but more important you have your quality FOH.

 

[BAG]

1) Upgrade the mixer, maybe get the Behringer XAir 16 or 18.

If you're looking at a tablet mixer have a look at the Soundcraft Ui series. Much less learning curve than the Behringer.

 

[Toddbass65]

Subs would help immensely- they give you the thump you need to round out the sound and yes....keep the dancing going.....which will,lead to more/repeat gigs. A better board is definitely in line, as I've not found any of the behringer boards that really sound great....imo. Find a used Presonus digital board and be done. The preamps are amazing and the digital,presets make learning easy. We have a 16.0.2 board which can be had for 500-600 used. That would leave you 900 or so in your budget if I read that correctly. QSC Mains are fantastic (we have k12s) but they are pricey. I have friends who have a couple different models of Altos and they are happy and I must admit they sound very good....and cheaper. So if you get lucky and can find QSCs used in your budget get those next. If not, buy the Altos new and be done. As soon as you can afford a sub add one....maybe by getting some altos used you will have enough for a sub. Add a second sub when you can, but one is a start. Last thing...and it's cheap.....buy yourself a DBX GoRack for $23 - they are on sale online still. They have amazing features that will make everything sound better. Compression,EQ, Antifeedback....they work great. Depending how you shop... the board, mains and GoRack should be around 1500. Carvins then become your monitors as others have said. When you add a sub you will see a final addition to your sound. We have a couple New yorkville subs we like a lot, but do some research and listen to other bands to see what you like for your needs and give it a listen. Quality mains like the K12s will add a little low end to your mix to help until you get the subs. Our K12s run on full range in a small room will actually be enough for many bands without an external sub...depends on the music. Good luck!!!! You have lots of great suggestions here from working musicians, so give it some thought and see what is available locally to you within your budget. Great sounding stuff out there now for less money than 5 years ago. Good time to buy

 

[buldog5151bass]

Agreed on the QSC cabs.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Items at the ends of the signal chain tend to affect performance the most, so I'd look at upgrading speakers, and in particular add a sub at the first opportunity.

One consideration that I haven't seen mentioned is availability. With a tight budget, you're probably going to be looking mostly at used gear & you just never know what's going to turn up on the market at any given time. Sometimes it makes sense to jump on a great deal, even if it isn't necessarily your top priority at the moment.

 

[monkeyland]

Do you have a sweetwater card or similar? 24 - 36 months same as cash can make these things easy if you can swing the monthly payment. I'm not advocating going into major debt over it but if you are going to be sticking money back each month, then it might work out to be the same thing.

I would recommend a set of k12s for sure and a KW181 sub. Don't bother with the Ksub, it's largely junk. If you live in an even remotely metropolitan area, someone should have just such a setup available to rent if you want to try before you buy.

To me, while your current mixer is far from ideal, I would say that the speakers are the most pressing need.

 

[Stumbo]

Subs would help immensely- they give you the thump you need to round out the sound and yes....keep the dancing going.....which will,lead to more/repeat gigs.... As soon as you can afford a sub add one....maybe by getting some altos used you will have enough for a sub. Add a second sub when you can, but one is a start.

FYI, Based on some previous TB posts with dispersion charts for sub placement, when possible, multiple subs perform better placed together and not separately as supports for the mains on each side of the stage.

 

[hrodbert696]

Local guitar shop had the Soundcraft UI16 in stock so I scooped it up last night and will start figuring it out, see what difference it makes. I'm thinking maybe next I'll get a smallish sub, maybe the Yamaha DXS15, anyone have any feedback on those? - and see how the Carvins do for clarity once they have it to take care of lows. I'll wait on mains till I have a better idea if we really need an improvement on them, or if the monitors really aren't keeping up at the volume levels we play at (not planning to be a crazy loud band, but then it is still rock and roll...).

 

[Zooberwerx]

Voted "subs" as it's the only component you don't have already.

Spend a little extra time with your existing PA rig...get somebody-in-the-know to help...and then ask yourself "how bad does it really sound?".

Riis

 

[BAG]

Local guitar shop had the Soundcraft UI16 in stock so I scooped it up last night and will start figuring it out, see what difference it makes. I'm thinking maybe next I'll get a smallish sub, maybe the Yamaha DXS15, anyone have any feedback on those? - and see how the Carvins do for clarity once they have it to take care of lows. I'll wait on mains till I have a better idea if we really need an improvement on them, or if the monitors really aren't keeping up at the volume levels we play at (not planning to be a crazy loud band, but then it is still rock and roll...).

Cool! Give me a yell if you've got any questions with the Ui. The main thing is to get your gain staging right and then eq. With our good quality acoustic guitars and bass DI we have very little eq tweaking to do and I've got the main's 31 band graphic eq completely flat.

I really think you'll need better wedges but you can always have one stack slightly behind and aiming across you. The auto feedback suppression would be very handy in that situation.

 

[BAG]

As for the sub, if you're going for something less than 18 inch you'll want good quality or it'll fart out and any decent volume with a kick drum, but a decent 15 sub will cost more than an average 18 anyway.

 

[micguy]

Your sound comes from tge transducers - the mics and speakers. Get those in shape; do the electronics second.

 

[walterw]

I'm thinking maybe next I'll get a smallish sub

no, get one decent 18" powered sub for $6-700, like an EV ELX or something. "smallish" means you end up needing two, so now you've spent more money, then they won't be enough to hang with better tops down the road so now you've wasted that money.

one good 18" sub will do beautifully for a whole lot of bar gigs, and once the rest of the PA is upgraded, a second matching 18" sub and now you're kicking ass.

and +1 to the key point that a sub brings even a cheap PA to the next level, primarily because if run right you can take that low end out of the top boxes so they sound louder and better too.