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Can someone explain SX basses to me?

#26
Blues Bass 2 said:
I have a different view on the Jazz pickups , I think they sound great .I've had at least 7 of the Jazz 5 strings and they all sounded very good , nice clear tone and good even volume string to string . I agree on the good wood and cheap labor deal though but all the big boys are having basses made overseas now including Fender so I wouldn't single out SX as a bad deal based on that . The basses won't be perfect out of the box every time but if you can do a basic setup they can be very good .
Click to expand...

Yep, Chinese made Fenders are still $500.

And I too haven't felt the need to change the SX pickup, I like their sound.
 
#29
smcd said:
When you pay your workers $40 a WEEK, no benefits, no insurance, no OSHA, no EPA, you can price things very competitively.
Click to expand...

Possibly. Many Chinese workers are indeed underpaid and work in sweatshop conditions. That doesn't mean they all are, and I wouldn't just jump to the conclusion that Team International's workers are. Most SX basses don't seem like the output of sweatshop labor.

Actually, there have been some signs lately that Chinese standards of living and wage demands are rising, and the trend of sending manufacturing there is slowing down if not reversing. In other words, the country is getting developed and leveling out with the rest of the world. It's not all the way there yet, not by a long shot, but that's where it's headed.
 
#32
georgestrings said:
Posts like this tell me who not to take serious - just sayin'...

- georgestrings
Click to expand...

Well I'd take an SX over a Fender USA any day as well! So you don't take me seriously?

Your mistake is like so many here who always ask "which bass is best?"

Nonsense questions. You always have to ask: Best for WHAT?"

So when is my SX better than my Fender? Well, I bought them to be "bar basses". Namely inexpensive easily replaceable, but nice sounding, nice playing basses good enough for live gigs that you didn't have to get paranoid about a trip to the John if nobody is watching your bass. Obviously a USA Fender worth a grand plus can't handle this job.

And another purpose of my SX was expanding my bass horizons. What in hell is it about fretless anyway? What in hell is it about a 6 string Fender Jazz (like say the Steve Bailey)? So how many grand do I want to drop to find out if this stuff means anything to me? Well my Fretless SX cost me $99 and I STILL love it though it isn't going to replace my fretless L2500 as my main axe. And I love the SX 6 string passive Jazz bass thing so much I bought THREE SX 6ers: now with rounds, flats, and fretless. Can USA Fender do that? Well I suppose it can, but I'd have to take out a loan on my house to do it.

And one more purpose of my SX was educational. How does one do shielding? How do you level frets? How do you do a setup? What would happen if I changed the electroncs from vol/vol to vol and a pickup switch? Would that work? would I like it or hate it? What do threaded inserts do for tone? And on and on with the educational questions. CAn I learn this stuff by tearing apart a USA Fender? Well, sure. But would I be dumb enough to actually try it? Hardly.

But the final thing an SX can do that a USA Fender can't is that if you do all of the above, the SX can get you READY for the day when you actually DO have the nerve to start "adjusting" your USA Fender just the way you want it.

So would I take an SX over a USA Fender for fit, finish, tone, playability, mojo, or whatever, well no. But when you say take an SX over a Fender you must first ask "for what purpose!"

PS. OF course you CAN use Squier basses for the above purposes as well. In fact I have as say in my Squier P/J experiments. But even though I learned a lot about P/J doing that and ended up with a really nice "bar bass" PJ Squier, unlike an ash or alder SX my Squier has an Agathis body which while OK isn't quite there.
 
#33
bassbenj said:
Well I'd take an SX over a Fender USA any day as well! So you don't take me seriously?

Your mistake is like so many here who always ask "which bass is best?"

Nonsense questions. You always have to ask: Best for WHAT?"

So when is my SX better than my Fender? Well, I bought them to be "bar basses". Namely inexpensive easily replaceable, but nice sounding, nice playing basses good enough for live gigs that you didn't have to get paranoid about a trip to the John if nobody is watching your bass. Obviously a USA Fender worth a grand plus can't handle this job.

And another purpose of my SX was expanding my bass horizons. What in hell is it about fretless anyway? What in hell is it about a 6 string Fender Jazz (like say the Steve Bailey)? So how many grand do I want to drop to find out if this stuff means anything to me? Well my Fretless SX cost me $99 and I STILL love it though it isn't going to replace my fretless L2500 as my main axe. And I love the SX 6 string passive Jazz bass thing so much I bought THREE SX 6ers: now with rounds, flats, and fretless. Can USA Fender do that? Well I suppose it can, but I'd have to take out a loan on my house to do it.

And one more purpose of my SX was educational. How does one do shielding? How do you level frets? How do you do a setup? What would happen if I changed the electroncs from vol/vol to vol and a pickup switch? Would that work? would I like it or hate it? What do threaded inserts do for tone? And on and on with the educational questions. CAn I learn this stuff by tearing apart a USA Fender? Well, sure. But would I be dumb enough to actually try it? Hardly.

But the final thing an SX can do that a USA Fender can't is that if you do all of the above, the SX can get you READY for the day when you actually DO have the nerve to start "adjusting" your USA Fender just the way you want it.

So would I take an SX over a USA Fender for fit, finish, tone, playability, mojo, or whatever, well no. But when you say take an SX over a Fender you must first ask "for what purpose!"

PS. OF course you CAN use Squier basses for the above purposes as well. In fact I have as say in my Squier P/J experiments. But even though I learned a lot about P/J doing that and ended up with a really nice "bar bass" PJ Squier, unlike an ash or alder SX my Squier has an Agathis body which while OK isn't quite there.
Click to expand...

Your diatribe aside, somehow I doubt he meant ANY of the above when he posted:

"I'd play one over a USA Fender any day of the week"

Sorry, anyone who would make such a statement is pretty tough to take seriously...


- georgestrings
 
#34
georgestrings said:
Your diatribe aside, somehow I doubt he meant ANY of the above when he posted:

"I'd play one over a USA Fender any day of the week"

Sorry, anyone who would make such a statement is pretty tough to take seriously...


- georgestrings
Click to expand...

I've played multiple MIM/MIA Fenders, and prefer my SX in terms of tone, playability and just about everything else. I hit it pretty hard against a chair today - I didn't give it a second thought. If I had a MIA, I'd be considering a refin.
 
#35
I loved my SX basses but if someone were to hand me a USA Fender and an SX bass and said I could use either for a gig I would pick the Fender . I don't exactly know what it is but the Fenders feel better to me but don't really sound better . I could use either and be happy but I prefer the Fender .
 
#38
Ken J said:
Lets add to that
60+ hour work week
No
workman's comp
Paid vacations
401K
Continuing education
Life insurance
Company vehicle
Holiday turkey or ham
Company Christmas party
Click to expand...

This is a misconception that has not been the case for several years now. It is simply not true that Chinese labor is so cheap. Maybe 20 years ago, but no longer.

We manage Chinese manufacturing for our clients. We have watched wages increase about 800% over the last 10 years. The typical factory workers in China now makes a reasonable wage that allows him to return home with quite a bundle to start his own business, etc. after a few years in the factories. No - it does not compare with Western rates, but the cost of living in China is still very reasonable, and the factory worker has no living expenses - everything is provided. As part of the job he gets:

40 hour week before being paid overtime
Clothing
Meals
Free Health Care
Free lodging with generous minimum standards for personal space.
Social Security
Unemployment insurance
MANY Holidays

Actually - the cost of labor has risen so much in China that the way that the Chinese manufacturers are now keeping their costs down is to wisely invest very heavily in automation. The Western manufacturers are still fighting this trend. Many electronic items are now manufactured with very little hand labor. Some of the more advanced factories can do it with NO hand labor at all, using robotics from making and testing the PCB to final assembly and packing the product in the box. I have seen car stereos made without a single human touching it until the pallet of boxes is taken away for shipping.

Rondo has hooked up with a good supplier. While there are still many hand operations required for guitars, I am certain that most of the production of the instrument is fully automated from the cutting and shaping of the wood parts to the painting of the bodies and maybe even packing.

The reason now that so many things are made in China is no longer because they have the cheapest labor, but because they have many of the newest, most advanced and highest quality production facilities in the world and can make goods at any price level you order at a competitive price - from Apple products to Nikon cameras and medical equipment - AND in the quantities you require.

Yes - there are still some schlock manufacturers located in some far parts of China, but this is becoming more and more rare and limited to very simple products such as garden furniture, etc.

As the factories become more and more automated and labor becomes a smaller part of the cost, the bigger and smarter companies have found other ways to cut cost. Fender has set up an amazing state-of-the-art factory in Indonesia. Why? It is not for the cheap labor. It's because that is where the wood is! It is cheaper to ship the electronic components from China to the automated factory in Indonesia than to ship huge boatloads of lumber to China. We benefit from this by having incredible Squier guitars at great prices.

Sorry for the rant, but I want to clear up this misconception.

And, BTW, Kurt at Rondo has been nothing short of terrific to deal with.
 
#40
Today I played my first few notes on an unbadged SX neck (connected to a Squier P-Bass body). It was pretty amazing for such a humble pedigree. I mean, it sounded and felt pretty damned serviceable. Not that I'm looking to buy one, but the times they are a-changin'.
 

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