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Can someone explain SX basses to me?
- Thread starter Dbt25677
- Start date
As fate would have it, I picked up an SX P Bass yesterday on the cheap - here's a couple of pics:
This is probably the 4th or 5th SX I've owned - I've probably played another half dozen, besides those... My experiences with these are similar to those of Squier or *some* Peavey basses - in short, my personal experiences directly contradict claims that: " I'd put my SX/Squier/Peavey up against any MIA Fender" - and this SX isn't any different... It is by far an inferior instrument to any CV or VM Squiers I've played, or any MIA Peaveys, as well... The bridge was junk - I would've needed to hog out the hole on the baseplate to load it with a .105 D'Addario E string - I swapped it out for a Fender threaded saddle bridge I had kicking around, instead... The tuners aren't as good as a typical Fender/Squier/Peavey - but are serviceable - the nut is garbage, as is it's installation - and will end up being replaced, and it will need a fret level to even come close to playing as well as my other basses... The work in the control cavity is pretty shoddy, but functional - and it doesn't sound bad at all...
In short - no one in their right mind would take this bass over a MIM Fender, let alone an MIA Fender... and IME, this is a typical example of an SX bass...
- georgestrings
Different strokes for different folks. Your description is reasonable except forsome of your adjectives. Yes, the 4 string SX bridge needs to be reamed out to accept .105 E strings, so that makes it junk? And yes, I've had to clean up some of the nuts, but is it that or the fact that you just don't like plastic nuts that makes it garbage?
My only issue is this: If it performs the function intended, it is not garbage or junk. Is it lower quality than other basses costing more, yes. But if it performs well, I guess I'm one that doesn't care much. For the record, I'm an amateur so I don't depend on my basses to make a living. And I don't mind doing a little more setup work on my basses. I've bought a fair number of SX basses, and I've used them at church most Sundays over the past 8 years or so with no failures on stage.
In the interest of full disclosure, I HAVE had to replace saddle height screw because the hex socket rounded off, so I agree that they are soft metal. But since playing doesn't cause wear on them, I'm just more careful when adjusting them... they do work, so I don't consider them junk either, lower quality yes, but not junk.
Again different strokes for different folks, but I love my Sxes.
Yeah SX basses shouldn't "fail" any more often than Fender basses. And their new Andromeda bass plays as good as any MIM Fender I've ever played and it has better wood to boot. The Achilles heal of SX has traditionally been their fretwork, but the fretwork on the Andromeda was great right out of the box.
OK, I make no bones about being an SX fanboy, but even I was blown away by my Andromeda! WELL worth the regular price, and a steal at the $170 " sale" price I got mine for! Why pay more?
You seem to have already made up your mind on this. Which is fine of course, your opinion is not uninformed, since as you say this isn't the first SX you've played. It is still your opinion, though.
Another person could have gotten the exact same bass and had the exact same problems and looked at it this way "All I had to do was replace the bridge and nut and I got a great playable bass for only what, $110?"
I love my SX, but like you I had to mod it a bit for it to do what I wanted it to do. The stock strings had to go, the bass was a tad noisy so I did some shielding. I didn't like that the bridge saddles could "shift" from side to side so I bought a bridge with slots for the saddles. I upgraded the nut, but only because I wanted to. The original plastic nut was fine on mine.
The only reason I've ever said that my SX "out-plays" anything more expensive is the neck. The neck finish is actually a big factor in playablity for me because I, like most players, have my thumb pressed against the neck when I play, and a thick poly finish can sometimes cause my thumb to "drag", I've noticed this with some (not all) EBMM stringrays and with Squier CVs. Some steel wool would do those necks wonders, me thinks.
The other thing I run into often on basses that cost a lot more than $110 is sharp edges on the fingerboards. The SX fingerboard does not have these sharp edges, it is relatively smooth. Not as much so as MIA fenders, but not too far off either. On par with good MIMs. This also affects playability.
So I don't know about anybody else but that's what I'M talking about when I mention that I prefer the playablity of my SX to that of basses costing 10 times as much.
@georgestrings ok yeah you cant compare sx's most garbage basses to one of squiers greatest triumphs, the classic vibe series. sx basses start at like what 109 dollars, most classic vibe guitars/basses are at least 300 dollars. pick up an andromeda or lke the pro series. before it got stolen i had an sx pro for 160 dollars and it was *by far superior to most squiers for the same price.
in terms of comfort and playability i rate my old sx pro above several fender basses ive played in the past, including some mia fenders. it had a really beefy bridge, the tuners were reallllllly solid and the neck felt fantastic other than the sorta sticky lacquer. but i wouldnt say that sx craftsmanship is better than fenders in a million years.
in terms of comfort and playability i rate my old sx pro above several fender basses ive played in the past, including some mia fenders. it had a really beefy bridge, the tuners were reallllllly solid and the neck felt fantastic other than the sorta sticky lacquer. but i wouldnt say that sx craftsmanship is better than fenders in a million years.
Nonsense. All of it.
I compete against Chinese labor every day, and keep close track of the Chinese labor market. When you say wages have gone up 800%, that is rot. All you have to do is type in "wages in China 2012" to find out that the average factory worker in China makes $4,700/year. That's the *average* worker in China. It's likely that the wages in the factory that makes SX basses are lower than that.
I'm not going to bore you with multiple links to sources that research and outline working conditions in China. There are so many that anyone interested can do it themselves. But I have to take direct issue with the claim that Chinese workers are given "Free lodging with generous minimum standards for personal space". That is just insane. More than insane, it's something that evil people who run a prison would say.
I used the term "junk", because that's what it is, IMO - the bridge is a significantly cheaper piece than the $25 Fender bridge I replaced it with - the baseplate is thinner, the saddle screws are crap, besides the issue of not being able to use a .105 E string without hogging out the hole... IMO, the original bridge wasn't worth putting ANY effort into it - it's replacement is far better...
Regarding the nut - plenty of my basses have plastic nuts, so that isn't it - it was so crappy that it is bending towards the headstock, and both corners are breaking off... Furthermore, the installation is fairly sloppy, too - I'll be replacing it with a better nut sometime this week...
I do play for pay, and am a fairly busy working musician - although I could gig this "as is", if needed - and it's certainly well worth it's cost - IMO/IME, comparing a typical SX to a typical MIM Fender gives me a chuckle, and to an MIA Fender is outright rediculous...
- georgestrings
No argument here - and your last sentence is right on the money, despite the spin from the fanboys...
- georgestrings
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
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Dingwall is a local company, the cost difference from a Chinese Dingwall to an ABZ is about $700, the Combustion coming in around $1200. There is obviously a MUCH higher cost involved since I don't see Sheldon driving around in a Lambo. Probably because he pays his employees a much more fair wage on top of their being more QC. You will never see Dingwall offering $110 basses because he simply cannot. This is also hardly restricted to America, it is any country with any sort of employee rights or human rights track record.
I am not attempting to turn this political at all, it is just clear as day why the SX cost is so low = human labour costs. That is exactly why they are so cheap and nobody can compete with them. Cheap parts can only save so much.
Right. Fender and SX craftmanship BOTH suck.
But that isn't the question unless you are one of those "sensitive" musicians who can't figure out which end of the soldering iron is the handle. I actually buy and change my own batteries in active basses.
So what you've said is true. The cheapo SX bridge (but not their "better" one) is trash. It works but is trash. That's why some (but not all) of my SX basses have had the bridge replaced. It's not cheap, I mean I had to fork out $20 or so bucks for each killer bridge replacement but I did have to change it. And the plastic SX nuts are trash. And I had to fork out maybe $16 for nice graphtech nuts that REALLY make the basses play/sound/tune better than Fenders. So you are right on that count too. And yes, the tuners ARE sometimes stiff and nasty, but they DO work and I've never changed them. The tuners in my Squier work MUCH nicer.
But my Squier is made from Agathis. And when tweaked an SX with REAL tonewood has much more potential in my opinion. Both necks may need a bit of polishing and fret tweaking. But both are equally stable. Cripes the LEAST stable neck I own is my Conklin neck on a bass that cost over a grand. But that doesn't make my Conklin bass junk!
And you Fender fanboys kill me because I HAVE gone out and played a LOT of MIA fenders. I own a really nice MIM Fender as well as a nice Squier P/J. Hey, Fanboy, I personally have played a MIA Fender Jazz bass with the neck sticking out at an angle, the saddles bottomed out, and the action a mile high. The price was WELL over a grand. Some quality! I had to double check the headstock to make sure it didn't really say "SX" on it!
Hey, my MIM Fender is a really nice Jazz. But it had to have the pickups changed to get tone out of it, it needed shielding to eliminate the last bit of hum, and is made from 12 pieces of alder glued together. I love it. But used it cost me twice what a new SX goes for and new it would have been about four times more.
My Squier P/J is four pieces of agathis, it needed shielding BAD, and I had to change the pickups on it to get it to sound decent too. I love it as well. But again used it cost me what an SX costs new and new it would have been twice the SX price. AND you have to add in the hundreds for new pickups.
But my SX are three piece alder or Ash, needed shielding, but I haven't had to change the pickups. But to me if I'm having to tweak in a bass, I'd prefer it to have some basic materials (like the Andromeda one piece body) that give true boutique potential rather than some cheaper wood (even though tonewood doesn't matter) instead of some Fender made from 12 sticks glued together and covered up with veneer.
So Yeah, I'm an SX fanboy. I have REASON to be.
(Sorry for the diatribe but your "spin" had to be answered")
You can find it funny all you want, but there's nothing wrong with having a PREFERENCE (you do know what that means don't you?) for cheap Chinese basses over relatively expensive MIA's is not ridiculous in the least. Your attitude that finds the preference for SX's so incredulous is what's ridiculous. The vast majority of these people have said nothing about the SX's being better than MIAs, jus that they like them better, and if you don't know the difference, then maybe you have no basis to be calling them ridiculous.
Yeah, as soon as I saw that, I knew you weren't going to follow it up with anything worth reading...
- georgestrings
That lists minimum wages and to be sure, a large number of workers in many industries do get the minimum. It depends on industry and skill level required, as well as availability of that skill within a certain market. Any trade that requires some level of skill will earn a higher wage and in most cases, musical instruments fall into that "needed skill" area. It may not apply to the workers who make the bridges and whatnot in supplier factories, or do the packaging and shipping, but anyone operating a CNC, doing painting or finishing or setup work would likely be earning more.
Here is a link that better shows an average wage of $656 per month in China, as "average" is what was originally inferred:
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I wasn't trying to get political either. OF COURSE a combination of lower labor and material costs is how we're able to acquire these lower cost goods from Asian countries. It should go without saying. It's an entirely different thing to imply that every single offshore factory worked is used and abused because they make less than their American counterpart. Wages in China will continue to rise until their purchasing power is more or less the same as ours.. so that $656 wage will end up somewhere around $1000, or a quarter of the American counterpart. It will still allow lower cost goods to be produced for the world, but profits to the heavy exploiters of Asian factories will be reduced and balanced out with those who use more fair pricing structures.
FWIW, anyone who own an Apple product needs to be quiet about cheap Rondo guitars
Heh, my I-Phone says "Assembled in China" on the back.
SX basses are great for the price and wonderful platforms for mods and experimentation. The one I own is a Ursa-2 Jazz that I bought here on the classifieds for $90.00. It already had the neck replaced with the older fenderish style and all the electronics had been replaced. I replaced the bridge (which held the ball ends of the strings so low the balls scratched the body finish) and the tuners (one decided to grind itself apart). I replaced the white pickguard with a tort one as it looked better with the vintage white finish (which really looks nice as if it was played in smoke filled venues for 20 years). After buying it I spent about 30 bucks to get it where I wanted it. I'll put it up against any Fender Standard Jazz. However, to get to that level the only thing original is the body, neckplate and screws.
I will buy another SX as they are a good foundation for a great bass. At the price point you cannot lose.
SX basses are great for the price and wonderful platforms for mods and experimentation. The one I own is a Ursa-2 Jazz that I bought here on the classifieds for $90.00. It already had the neck replaced with the older fenderish style and all the electronics had been replaced. I replaced the bridge (which held the ball ends of the strings so low the balls scratched the body finish) and the tuners (one decided to grind itself apart). I replaced the white pickguard with a tort one as it looked better with the vintage white finish (which really looks nice as if it was played in smoke filled venues for 20 years). After buying it I spent about 30 bucks to get it where I wanted it. I'll put it up against any Fender Standard Jazz. However, to get to that level the only thing original is the body, neckplate and screws.
I will buy another SX as they are a good foundation for a great bass. At the price point you cannot lose.
I have an SX jazz from the first run (fender-ish headstock) that is modded (haeussel pickups, gotoh bridge, new nut, new electronic) and I paid about 280$ for it (pickups are ~170 new... so it was a steal). I compared it to some MIM Fenders (about 800$ here in Germany) and I liked mine better... so to me a good modified sx is superior to an MIM Fender. MIA Fenders are playing in another league though.
