Can someone explain SX basses to me?

[MegaSwing]

I loved my SX basses but if someone were to hand me a USA Fender and an SX bass and said I could use either for a gig I would pick the Fender . I don't exactly know what it is but the Fenders feel better to me but don't really sound better . I could use either and be happy but I prefer the Fender .

National loyalty?

 

[bolophonic]

This is a misconception that has not been the case for several years now. It is simply not true that Chinese labor is so cheap. Maybe 20 years ago, but no longer.

We manage Chinese manufacturing for our clients. We have watched wages increase about 800% over the last 10 years. The typical factory workers in China now makes a reasonable wage that allows him to return home with quite a bundle to start his own business, etc. after a few years in the factories. No - it does not compare with Western rates, but the cost of living in China is still very reasonable, and the factory worker has no living expenses - everything is provided. As part of the job he gets:

40 hour week before being paid overtime
Clothing
Meals
Free Health Care
Free lodging with generous minimum standards for personal space.
Social Security
Unemployment insurance
MANY Holidays

Actually - the cost of labor has risen so much in China that the way that the Chinese manufacturers are now keeping their costs down is to wisely invest very heavily in automation. The Western manufacturers are still fighting this trend. Many electronic items are now manufactured with very little hand labor. Some of the more advanced factories can do it with NO hand labor at all, using robotics from making and testing the PCB to final assembly and packing the product in the box. I have seen car stereos made without a single human touching it until the pallet of boxes is taken away for shipping.

Rondo has hooked up with a good supplier. While there are still many hand operations required for guitars, I am certain that most of the production of the instrument is fully automated from the cutting and shaping of the wood parts to the painting of the bodies and maybe even packing.

The reason now that so many things are made in China is no longer because they have the cheapest labor, but because they have many of the newest, most advanced and highest quality production facilities in the world and can make goods at any price level you order at a competitive price - from Apple products to Nikon cameras and medical equipment - AND in the quantities you require.

Yes - there are still some schlock manufacturers located in some far parts of China, but this is becoming more and more rare and limited to very simple products such as garden furniture, etc.

As the factories become more and more automated and labor becomes a smaller part of the cost, the bigger and smarter companies have found other ways to cut cost. Fender has set up an amazing state-of-the-art factory in Indonesia. Why? It is not for the cheap labor. It's because that is where the wood is! It is cheaper to ship the electronic components from China to the automated factory in Indonesia than to ship huge boatloads of lumber to China. We benefit from this by having incredible Squier guitars at great prices.

Sorry for the rant, but I want to clear up this misconception.

And, BTW, Kurt at Rondo has been nothing short of terrific to deal with.

Very interesting information. Thank you for posting that.

 

[punkjazzben]

This is a misconception that has not been the case for several years now. It is simply not true that Chinese labor is so cheap. Maybe 20 years ago, but no longer.

+1000

Thanks for that post Bassamatic. I hope a few more read it and start to think about the realities of China, not these odd images of thousands of penniless Chinese toiling away in windowless sweatshops, whittling basses with butterknifes.

It is interesting that so many people look at the price of an SX and assume there must be something untoward going on somewhere along the supply chain. Or perhaps that's just their excuse for brand loyalty/patriotism towards US-made instruments and irrational phobia of 'Asian' gear. I don't know.

But back on point, I've played a few SXs but have never bought one. They were great basses - good to go out of the box, but also really good mod platforms - but I've tried very hard not to make a habit of buying every bass I enjoy. If I did that, I would own a whole lot of those basses from Rondo (I was so close to buying an SX 6-string Jazz, but shipping to Oz costs more than the bass!).

 

[Justice]

i have three older SX basses, all of them have been gigged.

My first SX was this P bass (Purchased in Feb, 2005). Mods include SD Quater Pounder pickups, Badass II bridge with body converted to string through and new pots and tone cap. Everything else is stock.

My second SX was this jazz bass. It originally had a maple fingerboard. I bought the bass and black block neck at the same time. Moved the hardware from the old neck to the new neck and installed it on the body.Only other mod was the mirror pickguard. All other hardware and electronics are all still stock.

The last one I bought is a P/J. This one had some issues with the frets, but I had a full setup plus fret level/crown/polish done and thats it. It is completely stock.

I would take any of them to just about any gig I play.

 

[Mastermold]

The latest SX models are great. Even offer single piece ash bodies, something Fender never has:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/nbd-new-headstock-sx-andromeda-w-single-piece-ash-body-1028784/

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

I bought one for $109 to experiment with. Repaired the minor flaws, replaced the tuners, bridge, pickups, all electronics and wires, and put a custom surf green paint job on it . . . hours of work and mega hundreds of dollars. When I was done, I had a bass that was worth, well, uh . . . $109. BTW, the necked warped four months into ownership!

You know what the problem was?

You forgot to replace the neck!



That post of Yours just about sums it up as far as the SX threads on TB go, at least on my POV.


A bit of miscalculation on Your part IMO though, a $109 instrument is more like $80 instrument after all those modifications .

Thanks Bassamatic for the very informative post, even though You well know that's not quite the case with the majority of the Chinese workers making stuff for us westeners.


Regards
Sam

 

[grrg63]

I hit it pretty hard against a chair today - I didn't give it a second thought. If I had a MIA, I'd be considering a refin.

Why consider a refin? If the MIA gets dinged in the factory, they just label it "Roadworn" or a "Closet Classic" and double the price.

 

[Ric5]

How are these so affordable?

There are some people in China who get paid very little.

 

[Ric5]

I owned several SX basses ... this is the one I kept. My SX-ray. I had to replace the neck with another SX neck and the preamp was defective, so I put in a Seymour Duncan Stingray preamp.

 

[Bassamatic]

Thanks Bassamatic for the very informative post, even though You well know that's not quite the case with the majority of the Chinese workers making stuff for us westeners.

You are quite welcome, but I must disagree with your comment.

The majority of factories in China have greatly upgraded for many reasons. First - to meet the new regulations put forward by the Chinese government. Second - to remain competitive. Simple manual labor is no longer the cheapest way to make things. Even some of the simplest items can benefit from modernized manufacturing techniques. Cloth is cut by lasers, robots pull parts out of molding machines, paint lines are automatic. It is really amazing.

I and my staff are always reviewing new factories throughout China and we have not seen any "sweatshops" since the 80's. thousands of people huddled over assembly lines may seem like a sweatshop to some of you, but it is probably better than working here at a fast food place.

There are some people in China who get paid very little.

Did you read my post above? That is no longer the case. It is modern mass production technology keeping the costs down, not cheap labor.

 

[Blues Bass 2]

National loyalty?

No . I love my country but this was just a feel thing for me . In the midst of all my SX Jazz 5 strings I had a 05 or 06 American Deluxe Jazz 5 that I put Nordstand single coils in . It just felt more naturaly comfortable to me than my SX basses . Maybe it was the smaller body but it just fit me better . Here's a pic before I changed the pickups .

 

[hsech]

Everyone should own one. I'd play one over a USA Fender any day of the week.

Spoken like someone who has never owned any other bass.

 

[CBNJ]

Spoken like someone who has never owned any other bass.

Oh shh! I've owned plenty, trust me.

 

[Batmensch]

I believe you, just like I believe you prefer to play a cheap Chinese bass over an American one. I really don't see any reason why you wouldn't. That's simply your personal preference, and you can't argue with personal taste. I find it funny that when you say you may like SX's more than an MIA Fender, these people think you're either lying or crazy. I guess I must be crazy, because I prefer playing my $280 Indonesian Squier VM P over my $1200 MIA Fender Jazz.

 

[bassbenj]

I believe you, just like I believe you prefer to play a cheap Chinese bass over an American one. I really don't see any reason why you wouldn't. That's simply your personal preference, and you can't argue with personal taste. I find it funny that when you say you may like SX's more than an MIA Fender, these people think you're either lying or crazy. I guess I must be crazy, because I prefer playing my $280 Indonesian Squier VM P over my $1200 MIA Fender Jazz.

This is exactly the point! If someone told me "Play the bass with the neck profile you like the best" I can assure everyone that I'd pick any one of my 7 SX basses over my Fender Jazz. I don't know why, but I just HATE the neck profile on my Fender Jazz V even though it's a terrific sounding/looking/playing bass. I love the fat feel of my SX and G&L bass necks. And oddly I also love the wide feel of my Squier P/J bass.

But why would someone say they can't "take me seriously" because of these preferences. Strange.

 

[Ric5]

It is modern mass production technology keeping the costs down, not cheap labor.

They do not get paid the same as American Workers.

 

[KingRazor]

They do not get paid the same as American Workers.

Their cost of living is also not the same.

 

[Batmensch]

This is exactly the point! If someone told me "Play the bass with the neck profile you like the best" I can assure everyone that I'd pick any one of my 7 SX basses over my Fender Jazz. I don't know why, but I just HATE the neck profile on my Fender Jazz V even though it's a terrific sounding/looking/playing bass. I love the fat feel of my SX and G&L bass necks. And oddly I also love the wide feel of my Squier P/J bass.

But why would someone say they can't "take me seriously" because of these preferences. Strange.

I feel ya. I had an Ursa 1, and I loved the neck on it, better than any of my other basses (two Squiers and a Fender)That wide flat neck just felt eminently comfortable (not that the necks on my other basses are bad, they're perfectly fine.) But some people have been derided by others here for saying similar things, because they don't believe it.

 

[b-bottom]

junk

 

[peledog]

They do not get paid the same as American Workers.

Well, cost of living is much cheaper in general, so while they may be paid less than a US worker, they don't have to make as much to make ends meet either.

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I can't attest to the accuracy of the report, but in general, we are all aware that the cost of living is less, but the quality of life is not.

Bass on!