Double Bass Can soundpost position affect bass's timbre?

[AGCurry]

I have three fully-carved basses, all from KC Strings.

Oddly enough, the one that feels the best to bow and sounds the most like an "orchestra bass" is the cheapest of the three (I'll call that bass "Norman").

The most-expensive bass is annoyingly crispy (to me) in its timbre. I'll call that bass "Peter." Peter is clearer and more distinct than Norman when playing jazzy pizz but too shrill to please me under the bow.

My long-term plan is to wait until a worthy bass appears that I can trade Peter for. My question to the resident wizards is: Might a soundpost move give Peter a darker, less crispy timbre?

Related but unrelated, both basses have wolf tones which have persisted despite luthier efforts.

 

[notabene]

sound post moves alter the timbre. worth trying.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Peter needs to have his post adjusted. Just gently massage it further south and it shouldn’t fit too tight.
?@!….;-))

Generally, setting the post one diameter below the bridge, or maybe just a hair more with just enough tension to hold it will give more spread and bloom with a softer attack.
That said, a lot of the tone of a particular bass is in the bass itself.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Not just position, but fit.
Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.: Luthier Rant

 

[LouisF]

Sound post move will definitely have an effect, but... I am a big believer in endpin voodoo.
Ebony/rosewood/oak/steel/titanium/carbon fiber all have different properties and changing the pin (to oak or ebony in Peter's case) might make as much difference as moving the post.

 

[AGCurry]

Sound post move will definitely have an effect, but... I am a big believer in endpin voodoo.
Ebony/rosewood/oak/steel/titanium/carbon fiber all have different properties and changing the pin (to oak or ebony in Peter's case) might make as much difference as moving the post.

I have ordered a carbon-fiber Ergonpin. I sure hope it's worth it...
Part of me says to quit looking for fixes in the gear/setup and just try to become good enough so that my playing doesn't expose these shortcomings. But when I go for my lessons, I play my teacher's cheap plywood bass with Helicores ... it's easy to play and sounds better than my basses in that little room! Not fair.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

My old Kay with Spirocores is idiot proof. Everyone who plays it (bow or pizz) sounds pretty good. It’s impossible to sound bad. I’ve played carved basses that fought me. It’s often just in the wood.

 

[LouisF]

AG: What kind of endpin do you have in Peter now?? (and what diameter)

 

[AGCurry]

AG: What kind of endpin do you have in Peter now?? (and what diameter)

I think it's 10 mm, steel ... what the bass came with.

 

[LouisF]

IMO - and the luthiers here know more than I - but unless you play with the endpin all the way out, you've got a mass of steel inside the bass sucking up sound waves. The easiest, cheapest way the test is to find a drum stick that will fit the socket and play for five minutes and see what happens. I don't have any pins that size, or I'd be happy to send you one

 

[Matthias Hacker]

AGCurry, can you please post a photo looking into the f-hole, so that the soundpost and especially the distance between bridge foot and soundpost is visible?

 

[AGCurry]

AGCurry, can you please post a photo looking into the f-hole, so that the soundpost and especially the distance between bridge foot and soundpost is visible?

 

[David Potts]

It looks like the post is perhaps too close to the bridge and the front a little more thick in this region than "usual". I am not a professional luthier but learned to do my own adjustments safely. I begin with the post fitting and upright, about its own diameter below and centering on the bridge foot. From there I move north/south until the open G relaxes and feels flexible to press down , resonates in the bass body and responds well to each of my bows. True or false, I find that moving the post north or south affects both the timbre and the balance between the strings. For me the G and A strings form a pair as do the D and E strings. The top of the post seems to move response through a series of modal points in between which the two pairs alternate in tension (ease to press down), clarity and response to the bow. From here the smaller adjustments, north/south and east/west, are trying to balance the four strings and there is the likelihood that "soundpostitis" (amateur's obsession) will set in.

A gifted luthier seems to have both the experience and an instinct that can "read" an instrument. There are many variables, including brands of strings and if you are mixing them. For orchestra I try to use complete sets and favour Pirastro , Thomastik Bel Canto and D'Addario Medium Tension when I can afford them. I keep the old sets both as spares and for choosing which works best on my basses.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Many basses develop a bulge on the top where the post sits. Thinner tops do and it can happen after a few years. For this reason, it is safer to set the post closer to the bridge, but your top looks thick enough that I would definitely move it down or have it moved.
Thick tops offer a lot more leeway in placement.

 

[BassFalcon]

Have you tried a lighter gauge string? Or heavier? When I put Corellis on my bass it was an immediate improvement. My understanding is that the lighter tension allowed the top to vibrate more freely and the heavier strings were choking it, but each bass is different. In your case with a thick top maybe heavier strings would help drive the top better?

 

[AGCurry]

Have you tried a lighter gauge string? Or heavier? When I put Corellis on my bass it was an immediate improvement. My understanding is that the lighter tension allowed the top to vibrate more freely and the heavier strings were choking it, but each bass is different. In your case with a thick top maybe heavier strings would help drive the top better?

I've had several kinds of strings on it. Came with Kaplan lights; they tamed the brightness at the price of volume. Temperas were too bright. Bel Canto, not as good as the Kaplans. Spiro mittel - bright, and the lower strings were hard to start. Full guts - great pizz but bowing the G string was like a knife. It's currently wearing Olivs over Spiro weich. We think of Olivs as dark, but they're pretty "fizzy" on this bass.

 

[David Potts]

You are a string collector too!!

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

“you've got a mass of steel inside the bass sucking up sound waves”

@LouisF can you explain that?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

From what I can see in your photo I’d say the post could stand to be moved about 1/4” toward the tailpiece and in toward the centerline just a bit.

 

[LouisF]

Jim, it may be fact/voodoo/or just an impression rather than science, but here's a thread on getting the mass of the endpin out of the belly of the bass: cutting the endpin? pros, cons?

and this:

Endpin Battle Royal