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Can you believe this???
- Thread starter Bloodfist
- Start date
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
That's exactly what I was saying above... It doesn't matter if money is tight or not. It's easy to be ethical when everything is hunky-dory. If you hold on to your ethics when money is tight, THAT's demonstrative of integrity.
There is an easy way to tell if this is okay or not: Ask your manager. If the manager says it doesn't matter, then fine.
I imagine that the GC system allows employees to retroactively claim a web sale for cases in which someone comes into a store, gets help from an employee, then later visits the website and decided to buy from there instead of going back to the store in person. In this case, the GC employee has legitimately helped the customer make that purchase decision and GC company policy obviously allows him to receive a commission for it. However, in the example of the original post, the customer had long ago made the decision for his own reasons, far before he was ever approached by the salesman, and that salesman had NO legitimate claim to a commission on the sale (which is why the OP was offended that he asked for it).
Frankly, I'd love to know what that salesman's manager thinks about this. That would solve this really quickly.
Are you trying to say that stealing a loaf of bread isn't stealing, so long as your family is starving?
There IS an ethical way to get bread, if you can't afford it, and your family is starving - ask for it. If the bread-seller says sure, then it's not stealing.
Similarly, if the manager of the GC (or more appropriately, the manager of web sales) says it's fine, then so be it. But without permission, it's stealing, no matter how you slice it. This is no different than a waiter giving away free food and hoping for a bigger tip. The food does not belong to the WAITER and it is not his prerogative to give it away. Doing so is stealing from the restaurant and will get you fired FAST.
There is an easy way to tell if this is okay or not: Ask your manager. If the manager says it doesn't matter, then fine.
I imagine that the GC system allows employees to retroactively claim a web sale for cases in which someone comes into a store, gets help from an employee, then later visits the website and decided to buy from there instead of going back to the store in person. In this case, the GC employee has legitimately helped the customer make that purchase decision and GC company policy obviously allows him to receive a commission for it. However, in the example of the original post, the customer had long ago made the decision for his own reasons, far before he was ever approached by the salesman, and that salesman had NO legitimate claim to a commission on the sale (which is why the OP was offended that he asked for it).
Frankly, I'd love to know what that salesman's manager thinks about this. That would solve this really quickly.
Are you trying to say that stealing a loaf of bread isn't stealing, so long as your family is starving?
There IS an ethical way to get bread, if you can't afford it, and your family is starving - ask for it. If the bread-seller says sure, then it's not stealing.
Similarly, if the manager of the GC (or more appropriately, the manager of web sales) says it's fine, then so be it. But without permission, it's stealing, no matter how you slice it. This is no different than a waiter giving away free food and hoping for a bigger tip. The food does not belong to the WAITER and it is not his prerogative to give it away. Doing so is stealing from the restaurant and will get you fired FAST.
+1
Seriously, whatever.. tell the manager, call to make sure no one gains permission to such credit, forget about it, do not live a stressed life, be happier, and live longer.
Well I'd assume the employee would need to involve his manager in this, and if they agreed and went along with it, that would be ethical? We're letting our ethics be decided by corporate entities?
(i am kidding, not trying to be argumentative)I'm sure if the manager did NOT go along with this, it would end right there, but the way the OP described it, it looks like the employee's manager would have approved something like that.
I'd cut a deal with him....
Dude you can put your name on my sale, earn the bucks, but i want a set of strings and for every customer I manage to put your name on, you will get me something.
That's a two way road, you give (technically you ain't giving anythingh) and he gives. Happy days.
Dude you can put your name on my sale, earn the bucks, but i want a set of strings and for every customer I manage to put your name on, you will get me something.
That's a two way road, you give (technically you ain't giving anythingh) and he gives. Happy days.
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
Technically it is illegal to earn a commission from a non adviced sale, so I don't see a problem in there.
When i bought my spector, the guy made a BIG mistake and sold the only Euro LX 5 Natural in england to someone else in result I had to wait two months longer...in order for me not to speak to his manager, I brought home
-hercules stand
-levy's suede strap
-spector hardcase (they don't come with that you need to buy separately)
-a set of elixir on the bass + set up
-an extra set of elixir strings
-a planet waves cable
I think that was all...i actually asked for a discount, and because for that he had to talk to his manager he worked stuff out in a different way.
Retail is a though business and sometimes you have to do some stuff to earn your bucks.
When i bought my spector, the guy made a BIG mistake and sold the only Euro LX 5 Natural in england to someone else in result I had to wait two months longer...in order for me not to speak to his manager, I brought home
-hercules stand
-levy's suede strap
-spector hardcase (they don't come with that you need to buy separately)
-a set of elixir on the bass + set up
-an extra set of elixir strings
-a planet waves cable
I think that was all...i actually asked for a discount, and because for that he had to talk to his manager he worked stuff out in a different way.
Retail is a though business and sometimes you have to do some stuff to earn your bucks.
Why is he such a big jerk?
He was just trying to make a living and wasn't causing you any harm!
You may also have made an ongoing relationship with someone in the business.
How is that so terrible?
I really don't understand you guys freaking out and reacting like it's a personal insult.
Sure glad I don't work in retail!!!!
He was just trying to make a living and wasn't causing you any harm!
You may also have made an ongoing relationship with someone in the business.
How is that so terrible?
I really don't understand you guys freaking out and reacting like it's a personal insult.
Sure glad I don't work in retail!!!!
I am in telecom and networking sales with a large manufacturer and sell mainly to very senior executives. There are sales guys (and girls) in my business that cold call all day, sell on price only and are dirtbags.
Same with instrument sales. There are good, bad and just plain terrible in all types of sales.
I have dealt with morons and I have posted about almost physically coming to blows with a music store idiot that lied to me and wanted an extra $500 on a deal we did over the phone. 1 hour drive each way is what really p!$$ed me off.
Also, I have dealt with very professional and knowledgable folks such as Dave at Club Bass in Toronto. When a guy tells me "I am not going to let you buy bass "X" as it is not right for you and here is why.....", I really respect that. 2 Sadowskys, a EBMM 30th Anni, preamps, a pedal board, straps, strings and a Markbass F1 head later (all within the last year), I am likely a customer for life.
There are no GC's in Canada but I am assuming there are also very good salespeople working for them.
Same with instrument sales. There are good, bad and just plain terrible in all types of sales.
I have dealt with morons and I have posted about almost physically coming to blows with a music store idiot that lied to me and wanted an extra $500 on a deal we did over the phone. 1 hour drive each way is what really p!$$ed me off.
Also, I have dealt with very professional and knowledgable folks such as Dave at Club Bass in Toronto. When a guy tells me "I am not going to let you buy bass "X" as it is not right for you and here is why.....", I really respect that. 2 Sadowskys, a EBMM 30th Anni, preamps, a pedal board, straps, strings and a Markbass F1 head later (all within the last year), I am likely a customer for life.
There are no GC's in Canada but I am assuming there are also very good salespeople working for them.
Precisiely why I quit working at an un-named major music chain. I'd always try to sell the customer what he wanted or needed,as opposed to what was proscribed by the store.
i never shop at GC (except when i got my Markbass amps) because i had no choice...
or maybe to do some research on a product,
but for purchases, i'll go to my local music shop, or sometimes I order on-line for strings.
or maybe to do some research on a product,
but for purchases, i'll go to my local music shop, or sometimes I order on-line for strings.
you and the kid from GC should go into business together,
then maybe someday you'll be a huge mega corporate glom
that stomps all over the little guys...just kidding
Dave, how many times do you think this guy has helped customers at GC, spent loads of time with them, helping them with whatever they need...only to watch them leave and buy online? Shouldn't you, as a customer, seek out the guy who helped you initially and make the purchase from him? How many people do that? I'd guess about 10%. So if he gets his measly $100 commission on something that he didn't help sell, he's still WAY short of where he should be.
Wait...are we seriously talking about business ethics in 2008? Do they exist anymore?
Wait...are we seriously talking about business ethics in 2008? Do they exist anymore?
If that's the worst thing that has happened to you recently Bloodfist, you are a very "privileged" and "fortunate" person.
I've just come back from the USA and found that the quality of service in GC varies from store to store and person to person!
I wouldn't have let the guy get commission either. If he didn't put in the work, then why should he get paid? I don't know whether the guys at my local music store are on commission, but I always go back to the same guy as he's helpful and knowledgable.
Look on the bright side, gas here in the UK is £1.10 a litre that's US$9.65 a gallon
I wouldn't have let the guy get commission either. If he didn't put in the work, then why should he get paid? I don't know whether the guys at my local music store are on commission, but I always go back to the same guy as he's helpful and knowledgable.
Look on the bright side, gas here in the UK is £1.10 a litre that's US$9.65 a gallon
I have stopped shopping in retail stores, and mainly go to ebay and big internet warehouses. Last time I was shopping for strings, there was zero of the 10 stores I went to who had the strings I wanted (Rotosound flats), I then decided to have a go for Thomastiks instead (none of them had that either), so I called the French distributor of Thomastik and got the word that there was no stores in Paris who had any of their bass strings in stock, but I got the contact information for 2 stores where I could go and order them. I ended up buying D'addario Chromes as I needed the strings the day after.
This goes on and on, and has done so since god knows when, so now I have been going direct online instead unless it's something really urgent and I have to live with a compromise, and ordering online, in some cases, I even get the gear 2-3 days after I order it, direct to my door.
D.Don
This goes on and on, and has done so since god knows when, so now I have been going direct online instead unless it's something really urgent and I have to live with a compromise, and ordering online, in some cases, I even get the gear 2-3 days after I order it, direct to my door.
D.Don
What do you think is illegal about...
?
I think I am pretty well versed in business practice legalities. I know that in certain industries, it is illegal for an unlicensed individual to receive compensation resulting from a sale, but I'm not aware of any US state or federal laws against compensating a non employee of a music store for soliciting sales revenue, provided a 1099 is issued if said compensation exceeds $600 in a calendar year.
Please enlighten me, I sure hope I don't have to turn myself into the authorities!
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
It's fraud, guys. And if you (the customer) are in on it and have an agreement for future purchases for which the salesman has no legitimate claim to the commission, it's criminal conspiracy AND fraud.
This would probably be pursued in civil court, not criminal court, if GC so chose. But either way, it's clearly wrong, unless you have permission from the manager of the department where the money's coming from (online sales), which I'm sure they wouldn't provide if they knew about this (and the salesman would probably be fired, if not charged criminally too, for trying to get commissions on sales he didn't originate).
Yeah, it's tough to make money in guitar sales with the internet out there. I know; I've worked in a similarly-unnamed music retail establishment. Boo-hoo. You get commission for selling. Had the salesman convinced the original poster to buy the bass he was trying out in the store, he would be entitled to that commission for THAT bass. He had nothing to do with the commission on the bass the original poster ordered online weeks before, and trying to get a commission for it anyway is frankly, fraud.
It's not so simple as there's "no commission" on an internet sale. The "commission" goes back into the online sales department to maintain the website, etc.
Bottom line, it is not up to you (the consumer) or the salesman (who was uninvolved in the original bass purchase) to decide what GC online sales dept should do with the money from the sale. Trying to get money that you don't have a legitimate claim to is STEALING.
What is wrong with you guys? Remind me never to do business with you
Original poster, you did the right thing by telling the guy off. If I were you, I would tell his manager what he tried to do. A good manager would fire him immediately. I know if I were the manager, I would not want that person representing my business to customers and saying things like that to them, let alone the fact that he's trying to steal from the company (get commissions he didn't earn for sales he didn't originate or even contribute to in any way).
This would probably be pursued in civil court, not criminal court, if GC so chose. But either way, it's clearly wrong, unless you have permission from the manager of the department where the money's coming from (online sales), which I'm sure they wouldn't provide if they knew about this (and the salesman would probably be fired, if not charged criminally too, for trying to get commissions on sales he didn't originate).
Yeah, it's tough to make money in guitar sales with the internet out there. I know; I've worked in a similarly-unnamed music retail establishment. Boo-hoo. You get commission for selling. Had the salesman convinced the original poster to buy the bass he was trying out in the store, he would be entitled to that commission for THAT bass. He had nothing to do with the commission on the bass the original poster ordered online weeks before, and trying to get a commission for it anyway is frankly, fraud.
It's not so simple as there's "no commission" on an internet sale. The "commission" goes back into the online sales department to maintain the website, etc.
Bottom line, it is not up to you (the consumer) or the salesman (who was uninvolved in the original bass purchase) to decide what GC online sales dept should do with the money from the sale. Trying to get money that you don't have a legitimate claim to is STEALING.
What is wrong with you guys? Remind me never to do business with you
Original poster, you did the right thing by telling the guy off. If I were you, I would tell his manager what he tried to do. A good manager would fire him immediately. I know if I were the manager, I would not want that person representing my business to customers and saying things like that to them, let alone the fact that he's trying to steal from the company (get commissions he didn't earn for sales he didn't originate or even contribute to in any way).
