Can you believe this???

[DanielleMuscato]

Store policies or practical matters aside, that is totally unethical - IMHO no different than a booking agent with a non-exclusive contract asking for a commission from the club after the band already set up a show on their own. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

deekay911's idea sounds pretty good.

 

[no1likesme]

I would have let him if he gave me some sort of deal on the strings. If you help the sales guy out, he will be more likely to give you a better deal on a later purchase.

 

[Zappstorius]

Personally, I would've laughed at the guy. Would I have been offended...not in the least. I'm not offended by the bum asking for money at the gas station, so why would I be offended by that. Please guys, get off your high horse. If you try to get a deduction on your taxes that probably isn't meant for you isn't that unethical? It is, but almost everyone I know does it.

 

[Earwigger]

When you work for commission its always drilled into your head to make the sale, make your quota etc. Had that been me, I would have let the guy take the commission even though I had made the purchase choice myself. The way the economy is today I kind of can't blame the sales rep for asking that. It wouldn't have bothered me to help him out any by saying yes and letting him take the credit. Worst case scenario, for all you know your answer could have kept (had you said yes) or lost his job *shrug*.

Times are tough right now.

I can relate, I might have let him take credit for it. The OP was in a store playing an instrument he had no intention of buying and thereby devaluing it and taking up space and time that might be made serving paying customers. Gas is 4$ a gallon now, and if it's no hair off my back and it helps a brother out.. I might have done it. I don't think it's a lack of ethics or morality if people are only being helped by it.

 

[Munjibunga]

C'mon, man! It's Guitar Center.

 

[Stumbo]

As any sales training states: "you don't get the sale unless you ask for it".
He's a sales rep. Cut him some slack and give him the sale. Let him buy some gas to get home. It's not costing you anything. You might have gained a business relationship that would have benefited you later.

As far as what's ethical/not ethical, if it's not illegal, people make money all the time working the gray area. That's the way business is done.

Getting all worked up over something minor is a hard way to live. How's it working for you in the non-bass world?

 

[AmieLouHat]

I empathize a bit with the salesman. I agree it's a bit bold and a bit brash to ask outright, but when I worked at GC, I had to fight tooth and nail just to get paid for sales that I actually did make. I had 5 people between me and the GM who could, and often did re-roll my sales to give themselves a 25% commission cut or worse for reasons often as stupid as knowing the customer's name and claiming they were the initial contact. In some cases, this was done when the customer specifically asked not to deal with that specific manager. It's cutthroat in those stores, and if you're actually gonna make a decent living working there, or most commission sales environments, you have to be a bit bold and brash. If you think about it, the Stingray is a $1600 instrument that's probably $700 profit, so that's about $100 extra dollars on his paycheck if you'd said yes.

 

[chutsk10]

I can relate, I might have let him take credit for it. The OP was in a store playing an instrument he had no intention of buying and thereby devaluing it and taking up space and time that might be made serving paying customers.

I don;t think the OP even asked for assistance so the sales person was more than welcome to use his time hlping someone else out.

And as posted above, common it's a guitar center! I go to mine once a week to try out new gear and talk to the employees, most of which have become good friends. Sometimes I even take my new gear in there for them to try. . .

 

[chutsk10]

If you think about it, the Stingray is a $1600 instrument that's probably $700 profit, so that's about $100 extra dollars on his paycheck if you'd said yes.

If you shop at a GC where they are not on comission that is an extra $100 in your pocket

 

[dannster]

You went into Guitar Center and had a salesman actually talk to you? WOW!

There are two here in the Seattle area that I frequent and the downtown one is awesome and somebody is always ready to help and they tend to know their stuff.

Then there is the Tukwila GC. It's like romper room down there. Just a bunch of snot nosed high school kids running the place. Stuff is strewn everywhere nobody to help. I went down today to look at the new Markbass gear they are now carrying and it was just piled in a corner. Nothing plugged in. Basses laying all over the place. It was a mess. I need to go to the Seattle store tomorrow just to get the bad taste out of my mouth

 

[jojo99]

I can't see anything wrong with the salesguy asking to stick his employee/store id on the sale in order that he can make a little extra cash.At the end of the day is right to go into a shop and play a bass you have no intention in buying in order to waste time? Of course it is ok! We've all done it, but that's why I also feel the salesguy was ok to ask too!

+1. These are hard times for retail outlets that tend to sell stuff from disposable incomes. If the salesguy just mentioned it to see your reaction, no biggie, but was he a total insistant jerk about it?
Maybe you could have bargained for a little freebie or discount on your strings in exchange for doing him the favor. Who knows, maybe he could have even put his name on the sale without even asking you. And yeah, lots of people use retail outlets strictly to try stuff out before they buy online... just be glad they're there for that now, because 'showrooms' like that could go the way of horse and buggy if current trends continue..

 

[roadkill2309]

I can't believe you guys are defending the GC snot who tried to get a comission on a sale he didn't make, especially as the OP states that he got aggravated when he found out the axe had already been ordered. One doesn't give someone even *mild* hell for not coming to him first, then turn right around and ask for the commission on the sale he didn't make. I mean, how crass is that? Simple answer: Too crass.

Also: Yes, it's tough. Gas is expensive. This is as true for the people buying big-ticket items as it is for salesmen. If gas is too pricey, take the bus, fer gossakes.

Now, if he'd agreed to let the OP leave with a free set of strings in return, then at least he's offering something for his vacuous commission...

 

[lexxmexx]

Give the guy a break, he was just making a living and was trying his luck. Unless he was rude, I won't kick such a big fuss about it.

 

[waffle puzzle]

No comment here, just an observation on the nature of humanity...
and how polarized opinions can be.

Some say, "the salesman was a jerk for swooping"
others say, " the nature of the job calls for swooping"

We are all inherently the same....WE ARE BASS, but, as with
society as a whole, we have a dramatic difference of opinions...

as with bass, as with the world.....now can't we all admit we are
bas(s)ically the same, but wear different goggles ?...and all get along ?
NAH, probably not....makes for better arguments....(or wars...)

 

[DanielleMuscato]

Personally, I would've laughed at the guy. Would I have been offended...not in the least. I'm not offended by the bum asking for money at the gas station, so why would I be offended by that. Please guys, get off your high horse. If you try to get a deduction on your taxes that probably isn't meant for you isn't that unethical? It is, but almost everyone I know does it.

But *Daaaad,* ALL the other lemmings are jumping off the cliff, too!!

Gas is 4$ a gallon now, and if it's no hair off my back and it helps a brother out.. I might have done it. I don't think it's a lack of ethics or morality if people are only being helped by it.

Easiest way to spot an unethical person: If his decision about what's ethical or not involves even considering the price of gas, etc. This reminds me of the scene in the Godfather where the son asks how much money is involved when it comes to getting into drugs or not. Either it's ethical or it's not. The price of tea in China is irrelevant.

What do you mean, no one's getting hurt by it? The money is coming from somewhere (GC, in this case). It may make a negligible difference in this particular case in the scope of the entire company's profits, but when GC is profitable, it attracts more investors, builds more stores, creates new jobs, and helps the economy. It is *never* justifiable to weasel money - if *anyone* involved would be upset upon hearing about a transaction, it's wrong and shouldn't take place. This is stealing, guys, no matter how you slice it. And if you want to benefit by getting a discount on strings, then you're just as guilty as the salesman.

I'm frankly ashamed of my fellow TBers who said it's no big deal, or you would have let him have the commission. I'm certain it's against GC policy (and probably criminal, too) to take credit for a sale ex post facto, and collect a commission for a sale you didn't initiate.

This sort of crap raises the prices for all of us honest buyers, no different than downloading software or MP3s. What happened to honor and integrity in business? How do you people sleep at night?

 

[Earwigger]

What do you mean, no one's getting hurt by it? The money is coming from somewhere (GC, in this case). It may make a negligible difference in this particular case in the scope of the entire company's profits, but when GC is profitable, it attracts more investors, builds more stores, creates new jobs, and helps the economy. It is *never* justifiable to weasel money - if *anyone* involved would be upset upon hearing about a transaction, it's wrong and shouldn't take place. This is stealing, guys, no matter how you slice it. And if you want to benefit by getting a discount on strings, then you're just as guilty as the salesman.

I'm frankly ashamed of my fellow TBers who said it's no big deal, or you would have let him have the commission. I'm certain it's against GC policy (and probably criminal, too) to take credit for a sale ex post facto, and collect a commission for a sale you didn't initiate.

This sort of crap raises the prices for all of us honest buyers, no different than downloading software or MP3s. What happened to honor and integrity in business? How do you people sleep at night?

I must respectfully disagree. Lets say a salesperson DOES help with the sale and has a legitimate claim to the commission. He reports it and gets it, and GC is out the money, but still makes a heavy profit. Now lets say no one reports the commission. GC pockets the money, which they were prepared to part with originally based on their use of a commission system.

Its money that was earmarked to go to the salesperson anyway. Since there was no salesperson, shouldn't it go to someone who needs it? Or failing that, someone with the gall to try and get it? Fortune favors the bold, they say.

If that salesman had dutifully helped you out and previously cut you deals and been a wonderful employee who made you want to go through him again, or even if the salesman was your friend, would you still arbitrarily deny him the "bonus" based on lofty economics? It's a gray area for sure. And I can see why some people would consider it wrong, but it's only a little wrong, if anything. It's the same thing as a friend of yours giving you an employee discount for something at their work, just in reverse.

 

[Stumbo]

"This sort of crap raises the prices for all of us honest buyers"

How? We're talking about a sales commission that would not change the price of the instrument.

Wouldn't it be more honest and of the highest integrity for Guitar Center were to lower the price by $100 (or whatever the commission is) since there's no sale rep involved in an online sale? mmmm...never thought of that.

That's not going to happen since all business' are around to make as much money for the owners/stockholders as they can based on whatever the market will bear.

The sales rep was doing his job in attempting to insert himself into the sales process, like all good sales reps do, attempting to make as much money as he can for himself, just like we all do every day we go to work.

To take issue with that is antithetical to what American business' stands for around the world and through out the universe. Taking risks, playing the angles, marketing your product as if everyone needs it or they will die without it, taking advantage of tax loopholes, legal loopholes, helping create laws that benefit your company, influencing politicians, stomping the competition, creating monopolies whenever possible for as long as possible, raking in the cash, living large and comfortable, influencing people and policy around the world, becoming the richest person in America....mmmmm.... sounds like Bill Gates to me.

Good night.

 

[motleystew]

Again, I say..Why go into a GC, get treated badly or get sorry service and then complain? You know going in what will happen. It has to go badly. This is GC you're talking about. To rant over bad service at GC is an oxymoron. They are one and the same. If you do not want what GC has (bad service, un-set-up-basses) do not enter one. This is like going into a restaurant and ordering something you know you will not like and then complain you didn't like it. I enjoy going into our GC. Sure, there is weird sevice, but going in I know this so I have no right to complain. I get what I deserve for even going into one. The only times I ever get good service there is when I go with cash in hand --(the correct amount to cover the WHOLE purchase without hoping for discounts, or an old bass hoping for a killer trade) --grabbing the bass or guitar --(a 'vette and a Strat in my case)-- and going to the counter to buy it and then leaving. It's too bad this is how it is, but it is...Good luck with the online purchase and I agree that GC's online prices should be reduced because they are not paying a hot-shot salesman to steer you around.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

"Since there was no salesperson, shouldn't it go to someone who needs it?"

Where do you come up with this stuff? It "should" go wherever company policy determines web sale proceeds should go. It is absolutely, positively *not* up to you, the consumer, to decide where GC's money should go. It is out of your hands.

If a salesman has dutifully helped you out and previously cut you deals and has been a wonderful employee, etc, you should go to a GC and order it through that salesman instead of online. If you order it online, it is not up to you what GC does with the money that otherwise would have gone to a salesman's commission. Anything else is stealing, most likely by company policy and almost certainly under law. That difference most likely goes to maintaining the website and making more items available for consumers through that purchase method. There's a good reason that GC keeps track of how much it sells in stores versus online - they want to know what works and what doesn't, and give credit where credit is due.

Fortune may favor the bold, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to ask for money under the table.

By the way, GC is not making "heavy profits." They are making zero economic profit in the long run (i.e. the exact same return on investment as their best alternative, when it comes to people investing money into their company). This is a basic tenant of economics.

For what it's worth, I would never give a friend my employee discount (if I worked a day job), and I would never accept one, either, without my friend's employer's permission - in which case, it would just be the store giving me a discount, and have nothing to do with an employee discount. Anything else is stealing. Did you really expect me to say something else?

I honestly cannot believe you guys. "A little wrong" is still wrong. I see no grey area. Next you'll be saying it's okay to cheat on your taxes as long as you only do it "a little bit."

 

[Earwigger]

"Since there was no salesperson, shouldn't it go to someone who needs it?"

Where do you come up with this stuff? It "should" go wherever company policy determines web sale proceeds should go. It is absolutely, positively *not* up to you, the consumer, to decide where GC's money should go. It is out of your hands.

If a salesman has dutifully helped you out and previously cut you deals and has been a wonderful employee, etc, you should go to a GC and order it through said salesman instead of online. If you order it online, it is not up to you what GC does with the money that otherwise would have gone to a salesman's commission. Anything else is stealing, most likely by company policy and almost certainly under law. That difference most likely goes to maintaining the website and making more items available for consumers through that purchase method. There's a good reason that GC keeps track of how much it sells in stores versus online - they want to know what works and what doesn't, and give credit where credit is due.

Fortune may favor the bold, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to ask for money under the table.

For what it's worth, I would never give a friend my employee discount (if I worked a day job), and I would never accept one, either, without my friend's employer's permission - in which case, it would just be the store giving me a discount, and have nothing to do with an employee discount. Anything else is stealing. Did you really expect me to say something else? I honestly cannot believe you guys. "A little wrong" is no more acceptable than a lot wrong.

The fact that the salesmen had the knowledge of his ability to send a message to MF and get his commission says that it is a corporate system in and of it's self - GC's company policy has already determined that a cut should go to the salesman. I doubt GC truly cares who that salesman is.

It's their policy to use commission, it's their policy to allow salespeople to claim that they were the ones that influenced an online purchase, and it's their policy to have it handled in exactly the way it is now - where salespeople can, a month and a half later, decide that they were the ones to influence a purchase and well after the fact receive the said commission on that purchase.

That tells me that GC's corporate policy is to absolutely allow the consumer to tell them where their money should go. It gives incentive to the salesperson to lie and beg, and yes that's unfortunate and yes it's not entirely honest, but frankly, if the money is there and GC's corporate policies encourage the salesman to do this, there's no one to blame but GC.

If it's morality we are arguing here, then I say morality is subjective. Steal a loaf to feed your family or let them starve and die honorably? I fully concede that the GC employee is most likely not poor and starving, but money IS tight, and you don't work a job that is based on commission because you don't want to get paid more then hourly or salary folks. You work a commission job because your own initiative directly affects your income. This employee simply has a lot of initiative.