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Can you believe this???

#61
Bloodfist said:
...When I told him that I ordered it on line, he got a little aggravated and asked why I didn't come in to see him about ordering it....
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Think I would've looked at him, smiled and said "Now why in the hell would I do a thing like that!?".

If he decided to continue to pursue it after that, I would not say another word, set the bass down, and walk out.

BTW, they're great aren't they?? I got mine late last year!... I mean the 'Ray 4HH, not GC salespeople ;)
 
#62
Well, let's see here. The OP goes into a store and picks up a bass he has absolutely no intention of buying. Then a person (salesman) whose livelihood is selling basses comes over to see if he can help the person playing the bass. The player openly admits that he's just wanking because he's already ordered the bass on line, and the salesman isn't going to make a sale.

Now, the salesman might think, "Jeez, why didn't this guy come down here two days ago and give me a shot at selling him a bass he doesn't have to wait for? Maybe, since I came over here to help him, he'd at least be kind enough to let me have credit for the sale. There's no cost to him."

It seems like kind of a slap in the face to the salesman by coming down to GC, helping yourself to the bass on the wall, only to let him know, "Too bad, I already ordered one on line." Of course, I don't know the tone of the conversation, but I don't think I'd've liked it if I were the salesman. In fact, if I were the owner of a store where this happened, I'd probably invite the OP to put the bass back up on the wall and take off.
 
#63
I agree that the original poster shouldn't have wasted the salesman's time, but he's certainly allowed to come in and try out the bass, even if he has no intention of buying it, as far as I understand GC policy.

The salesman could have said, "If you're not going to buy it, please let me put it back so that the future owner can enjoy this instrument in nearer-to-unplayed condition."

A smart, *ethical* salesman would have said, "Well, I'm glad you found one that works for you. Now all you need is a backup! That bass you're playing right there would be perfect, and I can give it to you today for only $xxxx..." and earned his commission by actually originating a new sale.

It's no mystery. You make commission as a salesman by selling, not by taking credit for sales you weren't a party to. I don't see why there is any confusion about this.
 
#64
Dave Muscato said:
I don't see why there is any confusion about this.
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Of course you are right in a text book sense, but in the real world, most people have no sympathy for big greedy corporations that themselves have no sense of morals or fair play. Either way, I'm not saying I would have let the guy have the commission, but I would not try to get him fired, and then threaten to kill him on the EB forum either. This is simply not THAT big of a deal, and I think that is what most people are reacting to!
 
#65
The $100 commission is not the point here; the fact that this guy is giving Guitar Center a terrible reputation is. I'm sure the GC higher-ups would LOVE to see this thread, find that guy, and give him the boot (and possibly sue him, too - who knows if this was the first time he conned money from the company in this way?)

Take it to the extreme, for argument's sake: Say this guy has a scam going wherein he has a network of people who order online, who then report their purchases back to him, and they split the commissions. Say he racks up $250,000 of commissions in a year for online sales for which he was not a party, and pays out $250,000 in cash to various customers for their roles in the scam. What do you think the GC online sales department would have to say about that? Do you think the salesman should be fired, then?

No one ever said anything about threatening to kill the guy. All I'm saying is that GC probably does not want this guy representing their company to customers in this way, and if they knew about it, they would be quite unhappy.

As far as your argument that "big greedy corporations" have "no sense of morals or fair play," I ask you, since when do two wrongs make a right?

I will skip the Economics 101 lesson and simply say that in any market sector, all companies make a zero economic profit in the long run. All rational people (customers and companies alike) look out for their own interests first, when it comes to money, and this is a GOOD thing - the entire basis of microeconomics depends on this principle. None of us are any more greedy that GC - we try to get the best deals on gear when possible, and every once in awhile, we throw someone a bone if we think it will help us build a positive business relationship, or even just to make ourselves feel better as far as being charitable (e.g. overpaying to support your local mom & pop). In fact, GC offers a lot of helpful services for musicians like clinics in stores, online guitar lessons, a musician match/finder service, etc, and they have low prices for working players, free shipping, price-matching, etc. Explain to me please, how does this make them greedy?
 
#66
Dave Muscato said:
I agree that the original poster shouldn't have wasted the salesman's time, but he's certainly allowed to come in and try out the bass, even if he has no intention of buying it, as far as I understand GC policy.

The salesman could have said, "If you're not going to buy it, please let me put it back so that the future owner can enjoy this instrument in nearer-to-unplayed condition."

A smart, *ethical* salesman would have said, "Well, I'm glad you found one that works for you. Now all you need is a backup! That bass you're playing right there would be perfect, and I can give it to you today for only $xxxx..." and earned his commission by actually originating a new sale.

It's no mystery. You make commission as a salesman by selling, not by taking credit for sales you weren't a party to. I don't see why there is any confusion about this.
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agreed...no work = no pay
I work at costco, and no one there gets commission, and I think the service is better (comparing the electronics section to GC) because costcos employees are there because they want to be and they are helping people buy stuff that is going to be good for them. course costco probably pays better than GC...

that being said, i went into a guitar center for the first time last weekend, and out of all the basses on the walls, not one was a lefty. so I wasnt to impressed in that department. and I don't like sales reps that work for commission. the pushiness that is inherent in a commission based system is unpleasant, as i feel pressured into buying immediately, something I don't like to do. and i don't like it when i feel pressured about stuff like my bass equiptment, its something i want to make sure i'm buying the correct thing.
 
#67
There is an upside to commissioned salespeople - they know their stuff. It's rare to find a per-hour salesman that knows anything at all about basses, although a lot of them know about their favorite guitars.

On the other hand, I don't know any commissioned salespeople that know as much as I do about bass models, pickups, preamps, string-spacing, cab configurations, etc... but that's because I spend a few hours a day on Talkbass, and they don't ;) I'm not sure that's something to be proud of, haha
 
#70
davidmpires said:
I'd cut a deal with him....

Dude you can put your name on my sale, earn the bucks, but i want a set of strings and for every customer I manage to put your name on, you will get me something.

That's a two way road, you give (technically you ain't giving anythingh) and he gives. Happy days.
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I think they call that compensation for referrals. I send a customer to the local car salesman, if he makes the sale I get $50. Toyota had that type of deal going. They still might.

I commonly get handed a salesman's card and asked to present it to the cashier when buying stuff at a commission based retail outlet, and I often do give the salesperson credit, whether he/she helped me or not. Inevitably they do help me find what I need at some point down the road.
 
#73
Refferrals are at least 5 to 10% of the revenue of a retail company, and I don't see no arm in there. I've bought lots of stuff at shops that I've been referred too. And I know the guy who referred me is getting some cash, I don't see a problem in there as long as I still get a deal.

This is business as it is. And if some of you people are so concerned you shouldn't be using the salesman time and using the basses at shops when you know full well you ain't buying it there, you will be going home and it the net until you find a cheaper one.
 
#74
After reading this entire thread, I have only one thing to say:

Thank-you to Dave Muscato for being one of the few people in this thread who actually gets it.

I'd add my own 2¢, but if Dave's 100% accurate arguments haven't convinced the fraud-excusers, mine certainly won't.

:rolleyes:
 
#75
I was about to question about this... but then I saw where you live... The glory of the Charleston Guitar Center. I too can't stand going in there the staff knows nothing about basses at all. I always have a time getting assistance and therefore all my business goes either to Ye Ol Music Shoppe or Musicians Exchange. However sometimes I need to test something out so I have to go to that one place I dread the CHS GC. I've gotten a bunch of lip the last time I went there and tested out a Stingray before I bought mine online. I definately wouldn't agree with the commision of a sale thing it's not like he helped you make that purchase at all. I'd definately go to Ye Ol if I were you, I saved so much from my last purchase there and I didn't even have to ask to lower it.
 
#76
I bought a used Warwick Streamer 6 from GC and during the 30 day return period I came up a little short on cash so i returned it. When I did though was looking for a nice cheap hollow body bass. Unfortunately they didn't have the new Ibanez ArtCore AFB-200 at the store. I could have gone home and ordered it online and screwed the original salesman out of his commission but I decided to have him place the order for me and have it drop shipped to me. The salesman got his commission and even expedited the shipping for me.

Now whenever I go to GC I look for the same guy and he makes sure I get the best deal possible because as long as I do, he knows I'll be coming back to him for all my purchases.
 
#77
Munjibunga said:
...It seems like kind of a slap in the face to the salesman by coming down to GC, helping yourself to the bass on the wall, only to let him know, "Too bad, I already ordered one on line." Of course, I don't know the tone of the conversation, but I don't think I'd've liked it if I were the salesman. ...
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I'd expect the salesguy to appreciate being told up front - so that he doesn't waste his time on you.

I mean - the store is open to the public, right? Sheesh.
 
#78
I must say that I am very surprised at the number of posts indicating that they do not see anything wrong with cheating Guitar Center, and the rationalizations that it is ok because it is a big heartless company or because the salesman might be a "starving musician".
 
#79
Bloodfist said:
Maybe, I understand that the guy is trying to make a buck, but do it honestly. I work my ass off for a living doing HVACR work and I could easily rape any of my customers wallet at anytime to put a few extra dollars in my own pocket with out them knowing it, but I don't. Call me guilty of being old fashioned, but I believe in making an honest days pay, and being treated with respect regardless of where I'm at. And as far as I'm concerned, getting money from my purchase that he did not have anything to do with, is basically the same thing as stealing from the company he works for.
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I hear you, but your job situation does not parallel his.

1. GC salespeople have, and probably will continue to, lost sales to people who came in the store, talked to them, played a bunch of instruments and then ordered online. Think of how you would feel if you were a private HVAC contractor, got called in for jobs, and after the potential customer got all the information they needed about how to go about it, gave the work to someon else.

2. His request would not have cost you a penny.

I agree with others who believe that your reaction was a little extreme. Your perspective is a little one-sided methinks. And I'm not judging you, I just honestly don't think you have thought through, or understand how a commissioned salesman makes money. You didn't need his help, but for every one customer like you, he has probably helped 10 customers who did... and then ordered online. No, that's not your problem, but if you appreciate having brick and mortar stores with reasonable sales staffs, anything you can do (especially things that don't cost you anything) to keep them around is an investment in keeping them alive and well stocked. On top of that a salesperson is a good friend to have.
 
#80
I just wanted to throw in that here in Canada, our biggest music chain (Long and McQuade) pays their sales staff hourly and not on commission. The results are surprisingly really good. The guys and gals working at my local store are always very knowledgeable and seem to genuinely enjoy working there. Many of them know me by name and will often show me new stuff they got in not because they care whether I buy it or not, but because they genuinely just want me to check it out and they're excited about it.

I would have to agree with the OP in regards to his sentiment towards the sales guy. Although I wouldn't get upset enough about it to consider beating someone up, I find that kind of sales approach pretty disgusting. I don't care if the guy is trying to make a buck or not, that's no way to treat a customer, and it's an awkward position to put someone in. On the other hand, I don't really give half a turd about the moral end of the sales guy's dealings with his own company. I currently work with commissioned sales people every day and in my experience, if you're paying commissions and don't have very strict controls around this stuff, many of them will take advantage of loopholes like this every chance they get. Not to say they're right for doing so but unfortunately, with the way the world works, you leave an opportunity like that open and you have to expect people to screw you. Right or wrong, that douche is just working the system.
 

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