Can you believe this???

[davidmpires]

And because of situations lik this, that shops are closing, everyone buys everything online...in a near future we may have to order the basses whithout even play them...

I buy some of my stuff online, but I also buy stuff on local shops, i beleive that if everyone did this we would see alot more music shops around...

 

[edbass]

Well, let's see here. The OP goes into a store and picks up a bass he has absolutely no intention of buying. Then a person (salesman) whose livelihood is selling basses comes over to see if he can help the person playing the bass. The player openly admits that he's just wanking because he's already ordered the bass on line, and the salesman isn't going to make a sale.

Now, the salesman might think, "Jeez, why didn't this guy come down here two days ago and give me a shot at selling him a bass he doesn't have to wait for? Maybe, since I came over here to help him, he'd at least be kind enough to let me have credit for the sale. There's no cost to him."

It seems like kind of a slap in the face to the salesman by coming down to GC, helping yourself to the bass on the wall, only to let him know, "Too bad, I already ordered one on line." Of course, I don't know the tone of the conversation, but I don't think I'd've liked it if I were the salesman. In fact, if I were the owner of a store where this happened, I'd probably invite the OP to put the bass back up on the wall and take off.

+1

The problem is; some folks just don't "get it", and this thread illustrates that admirably.
I guess that's OK, it keeps things interesting. And I'm not being judgemental, hey, it probably took me a decade or so of "real world" and business ownership before I figured it out.

If I were GM of that GC and a customer came to me with the OP's complaint, I'd pull the salesperson aside and give him $50 for being ambitious and thinking on his feet.
But mostly for trying to pull retail revenue into MY STORE, which is the sole reason a retail location exists.

 

[RiseOfTheWooten]

Say for example - I'm a regular customer at a restaurant but on this particular occasion I've phoned first to order takeaway. So on the way home from work I drop in at the restaurant to pick up the pre-ordered takeaway.

While I'm hanging about waiting for the food to be brought out from the kitchen, a rude, pushy waiter starts hassling me to sit down and eat in. I explain that I've already pre-ordered takeaway. He then hassles me for tips, claiming credit for non-existent service.

Would you give him the tip?

I daresay most, if not all of you would not, based on the fact that you weren't eating in, he had done nothing to "serve you" as a waiter, and therefore he did not earn his tips. Notwithstanding the fact that he was arrogant and rude to you on top of it all.

Relating this scenario to the first poster's circumstances above, the logical reasoning for earning the 'tip' or the 'commission' remains the same.

The only difference is, in my scenario, the waiter is ripping off you the customer. Whereas the GC salesperson above is ripping off his employer and going against the tenets of customer service by placing GC customers under duress and intimidation and being rude while they're at it.

That's like declaring open season on any potential customer that walks through the doors at GC. Genuine customer services goes out the window.

 

[RiseOfTheWooten]

If I were GM of that GC and a customer came to me with the OP's complaint, I'd pull the salesperson aside and give him $50 for being ambitious and thinking on his feet.
But mostly for trying to pull retail revenue into MY STORE, which is the sole reason a retail location exists.

The GM wouldn't be too happy if the store started losing customers though.

 

[edbass]

It's fraud, guys. And if you (the customer) are in on it and have an agreement for future purchases for which the salesman has no legitimate claim to the commission, it's criminal conspiracy AND fraud.

This would probably be pursued in civil court, not criminal court, if GC so chose. But either way, it's clearly wrong, unless you have permission from the manager of the department where the money's coming from (online sales), which I'm sure they wouldn't provide if they knew about this (and the salesman would probably be fired, if not charged criminally too, for trying to get commissions on sales he didn't originate).

So, this insinuates that you believe that the actions described by the OP are actionable under some jurisdiction's criminal conspiracy and/or fraud laws?
Well, I suppose technically you can file a civil lawsuit for anything you want, no matter how unfounded it may be in actual law. (and some wonder why our courts are so clogged up...) Could you actually imagine a senario where the suit wouldn't be summarily dismissed by any sitting judge?

Or, maybe GC/MF has some green pea attorney on staff that they want to flush some money down the drain on, in order to get them some trial experience.

Help me out here, Dave.
I always try to further my understanding of business law to avoid ending up in court, and you post as if you have indepth knowledge of free trade legalities, and probably hours of court time to back it up.

 

[edbass]

Say for example - I'm a regular customer at a restaurant but on this particular occasion I've phoned first to order takeaway. So on the way home from work I drop in at the restaurant to pick up the pre-ordered takeaway.

While I'm hanging about waiting for the food to be brought out from the kitchen, a rude, pushy waiter starts hassling me to sit down and eat in. I explain that I've already pre-ordered takeaway. He then hassles me for tips, claiming credit for non-existent service.

Would you give him the tip?

I daresay most, if not all of you would not, based on the fact that you weren't eating in, he had done nothing to "serve you" as a waiter, and therefore he did not earn his tips. Notwithstanding the fact that he was arrogant and rude to you on top of it all.

Relating this scenario to the first poster's circumstances above, the logical reasoning for earning the 'tip' or the 'commission' remains the same.

The only difference is, in my scenario, the waiter is ripping off you the customer. Whereas the GC salesperson above is ripping off his employer and going against the tenets of customer service by placing GC customers under duress and intimidation and being rude while they're at it.

That's like declaring open season on any potential customer that walks through the doors at GC. Genuine customer services goes out the window.

Relating this scenario to the GC story is apples and oranges.
Now, if you ordered takeaway, got to the restaurant and sat down, drank some water, ate the free peanuts, etc. and when the waiter came to take your order you say "No, I've already ordered a takeway; could you get me some more water, maybe a few more peanuts or some bread?"
That would be a fair comparison.
I think the server would be completely in line to invite you to eat in the restaurant in that scenario.

 

[thumpbass1]

This guy has a huge future in car sales.

 

[edbass]

The GM wouldn't be too happy if the store started losing customers though.

It's all about the revenue. If revenue is up, the GM is a happy camper, period.
I'm really struggling with the fact that anyone takes umbrage with the salesperson's actions in the first place.

 

[chadshorebird]

You could have helped this guy make a few bucks and take it away from the corporate giants at GC. Why are you too proud to help out another starving musician?

Is you ego that huge that you really care? I would have helped the guy get the commission, even if he would be embellishing on his role in the sale.

Honestly, why do you care if this guy makes money or not?

 

[detracti]

I must say that I am very surprised at the number of posts indicating that they do not see anything wrong with cheating Guitar Center, and the rationalizations that it is ok because it is a big heartless company or because the salesman might be a "starving musician".

Not saying that you're referring to my posts... Personally, I don't care one bit about their status of "big cheating corporation".

I'm more interested in quality of service. I worked in a sales position for a number of years. It is a numbers game. The faster you weed out the duds, the faster you'll find real buyers.

A certain amount of push from a commissioned sales rep is fine. And commission is a fine motivator to provide the best service.

In this case, I think it crosses the line into the realm of the well-known high pressure used car salesguy.

 

[RiseOfTheWooten]

Now, if you ordered takeaway, got to the restaurant and sat down, drank some water, ate the free peanuts, etc.

Some restaurants already do that as a courtesy for takeaway customers waiting to pick up their food, waiters do not (and are not expected to) hassle these customers for tips.

It's all about the revenue. If revenue is up, the GM is a happy camper, period.

No customers = no revenue. Many businesses underestimate the value of the returning customer.

 

[RiseOfTheWooten]

Honestly, why do you care if this guy makes money or not?

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that IF he was to help the guy get his commission, he would like ownership of choice to do so of his own volition, without being bullied or intimidated into it. Why would you give the salesperson a free hand out if he's obviously treated you like a pushover throughout the sales pitch?

I would normally have no problems helping out a salesperson get their commission, and in fact I have, in the past, gone out of my way to make sure a deserving salesperson gets the right commission from a sale to me.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

For all you guys who think it was ok for the salesman to try and get credit for something that he did not have coming. How will you feel about the homeless person that may ask you for some change?




I would not have given the guy any thing and what he did falls into the category of deceptive practice.

 

[bobbykokinos]

I honestly can't believe how many of you would have actually given the GC salesman the credit! Starving musician blah blah. In most cases, a musician who is starving is starving because they are too proud to get a job at McDonalds or as a Pizza Guy. As a musician, if I couldn't pay my bills, I sure as hell would go get a job shoveling CRAP before I asked for handouts from people I didnt know.

Its not about "sticking it to big corporations" or "helping someone out". Its about WORKING, let me try that again, WORKING for your money which it seems too many people have forgotten about. I'm assuming the original poster WORKED for his money he used to purchase the bass. The same way the GC employee should WORK for his commission. Fundamentally, the GC has a job that he knew is based upon his ability to sell basses. Not his ability to ask people for credit for something he didn't do. BUT, just like typical corporate America, lets take credit for something "I" didn't do to make my numbers better.

As long as we get from point A to point B somehow, we all pay gas so thats not an excuse. As long as we have income, we all pay taxes, so thats not an excuse. We need to feed ourselves so we figure out a way to. So, if that GC employee is entitled to a hand out, then we ALL are.

Having said that, I think the OP may have over reacted a bit.. Should've just given the bass back, said "Have a good day" and left it at that.

<off my soap box.. sick and tired of people not WORKING for their money>

 

[sonicvi]

Work!?

 

[Ol'Bass'ead]

Wait...are we seriously talking about business ethics in 2008? Do they exist anymore?

The question isnt 'do they exist', its 'should they exist'. And the problem as I see it is that so many people are out for themselves that ethics has been thrown under the bus. The sad fact is, is that lying and cheating and stealing are accepted as the norm or even justified by certain events. We as a society even accept that there are 'grey' areas that are not quite on the up and up, but not really bad either. And that is just BS. Right is always right, and wrong is always wrong. There is no difference between stealing from some corporate giant, or the government, or your grandmother-stealing is stealing.

Is this a perfect world? No. Is it right to pay a waitress substandard pay and expect her to 'make it up' on tips? No. Why not just charge a bit more for the food and pay her well and forgo the tip? I think a tip is only warrented when you recieve exceptional service. By the same token, I believe that having salespeople work on a commission is wrong. Its just another way for a business to not have to pay a person for their work. They've found a 'legal' way to rip off their employees. Its no different than the sweatshops and child labor going on in other countries. And again, taking advantage of an employ is stealing-and stealing is wrong.

I also know that we all have to (or at least want to) buy things to make ourselves happy, or to make it easier to do the things we like to do (like play bass), and we have to buy them somewhere. But if we as a society just let all the dishonesty go unpunished, what kind of legacy are we leaving for future generations? If we arent careful where we buy, or how we buy, or are willing to forego concience to spend less money, how does society as we knew it ever survive?

Now I know that one of the first responses are going to be 'So where does this leave the salesman or waitress if we quit buying at places that use fraudulent practices'? People, unemployment is at less than 5% nationwide. And if you take out all the sloths that dont want to work, and live of the government tit, that figure goes way down. There are plenty of jobs out there-heck! Kick out the illegals and we would have more jobs than people!

Employers wouldnt be able to get by with these diplorable practices, that almost force honest people to be dishonest, if people wont work for them. And those who dont have as much concience (like about 50% of the people in this thread) just make it hard for those of us who do have a concience and do wish our fellow man the best, to do business.

As far as a response to the OP, I too would be a bit taken aback by a salesman trying aquire money that he didnt earn. But I think I would have been more affronted by his lack of proffessionalism than just the request. I actually have a good relationship with most of the employees at my local GC. They all recognize me, and are friendly. They continually cruise the store and as they walk by they say " if you need anything, let me know" and I see them treat everyone else the same way. They dont hover, or push, but are alway ready to help if you need it. And consequently, I have bought quite a bit from them. But if their price is too high, I buy online. Thats how a free market society works. And there are trade offs to each way of buying. But no matter what, there is no excuse for dishonesty-wrong is always wrong, and right is always right, there is no grey.

 

[Warpticon]

Holy crap, the strawmen! THEY'RE COMING FOR US!

 

[RiseOfTheWooten]

As far as a response to the OP, I too would be a bit taken aback by a salesman trying aquire money that he didnt earn. But I think I would have been more affronted by his lack of proffessionalism than just the request.

I think that is exactly the central point of the issue.

 

[Ol'Bass'ead]

You could have helped this guy make a few bucks and take it away from the corporate giants at GC. Why are you too proud to help out another starving musician?

Is you ego that huge that you really care? I would have helped the guy get the commission, even if he would be embellishing on his role in the sale.

Honestly, why do you care if this guy makes money or not?

I find it interesting that you use the words 'embellishing' and 'honestly' within 6 words of each other.

 

[Ol'Bass'ead]

So, this insinuates that you believe that the actions described by the OP are actionable under some jurisdiction's criminal conspiracy and/or fraud laws?
Well, I suppose technically you can file a civil lawsuit for anything you want, no matter how unfounded it may be in actual law. (and some wonder why our courts are so clogged up...) Could you actually imagine a senario where the suit wouldn't be summarily dismissed by any sitting judge?

Or, maybe GC/MF has some green pea attorney on staff that they want to flush some money down the drain on, in order to get them some trial experience.

Help me out here, Dave.
I always try to further my understanding of business law to avoid ending up in court, and you post as if you have indepth knowledge of free trade legalities, and probably hours of court time to back it up.

I agree that court proceedings wouldnt happen on a $100 commission fraud. But they would most likely fire the salesman. But the point is valid. If the business/object(s) for sale/commision were in the millions of dollars, they wouldnt be able to get to court fast enough. Just look at what happened with the utility companies a few years ago. Its the same principle.

If I steal a peace of candy at a store thats worth 10 cents (do they even have those anymore?) is it fundamentally any different than stealing a car? Or a plane? Or someones good name? Stealing is stealing-its not about the amount. And corporations have to weigh the cost vs. return before they buy a lawyer. So, no, they wouldnt prosecute the store employee-but they could.