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Can't find a compressor I like

#101
kcducttaper said:
Maybe I've just got too high expectations, but I've been having a heck of a time finding a compressor that I simply just like. Below are a list of the compressors I've tried and why I don't like them:

Darkglass Hyper Luminal (x2):
- Always had audible (to my ears) artifacting in the compressed signal even in 4:1 ratios. The more compression I added, the more artifacting I could hear, which means the compressor is introducing noise in the compressed signal. I legitimately thought the first one was defective, so I sent it back for a replacement and it did the same thing. Ultimately Darkglass said it was "working as designed", so I got rid of it.

Empress Bass Compressor:
- Doesn't stay on when my pedal board turns on/off.
- Pops when I turn it on/off.
- Sometimes, when I'm digging in, it'll "pop" and I notice that my gain reduction also maxes out at -25dB reduction for a brief moment. This seems to be a lot worse with a very fast attack. For reference, I'm nornally running 4:1 ratio with about -4 to -6dB gain reduction during normal playing, so a random spike to -25dB seems massive and it's definitely not a cable pop.
- I really love the side-chain high pass filter though!

MarkBass Compressore:
- Compresses the low B too much for my liking. It's 'balanced' with the rest of the strings, but I like my B to be big and powerful - especially since many PA systems are rolling off at those frequencies already.
- Easily the cleanest and most natural sounding of the 3 compressors and, if it had the side-chain high pass of the Empress, it would be the end of my compressor search.

Anybody else have some recommendations of a compressor pedal I could look into? Am I just expecting too much from a compressor?
Click to expand...
Hi there! It sounds like you are using the Bass Compressor at extreme settings, which can result in unpleasant sounds if that's not what you're going for. With our compressors, we wanted to emulate HIFI studio compressors which give you the option to dial things in how you like them, rather than making limiting design decisions. At -25dB of gain reduction, yes, that can sound unpleasant on Bass, but might sound great on a drum mix with the Mix dialed back!

Try turning down the input pot, or setting it to a lower ratio, or increasing the attack and release time, all to taste of course.

I would start with this recommended setting and experiment from there:
upload_2024-6-19_11-59-44.png

If you're still finding too much compression is being applied to the signal, perhaps you using pickups with a really hot output, like active pickups. In that case, turn down the input know until you see around -6dB of gain reduction when you are playing at your loudest.

Hope that helps!
 
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#102
Mike_Empress said:
Hi there! It sounds like you are using the Bass Compressor at extreme settings, which can result in unpleasant sounds if that's not what you're going for. With our compressors, we wanted to emulate HIFI studio compressors which give you the option to dial things in how you like them, rather than making limiting design decisions. At -25dB of gain reduction, yes, that can sound unpleasant on Bass, but might sound great on a drum mix with the Mix dialed back!

Try turning down the input pot, or setting it to a lower ratio, or increasing the attack and release time, all to taste of course.

I would start with this recommended setting and experiment from there:
View attachment 5483418
If you're still finding too much compression is being applied to the signal, perhaps you using pickups with a really hot output, like active pickups. In that case, turn down the input know until you see around -6dB of gain reduction when you are playing at your loudest.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

kcducttaper said:
For reference, I'm nornally running 4:1 ratio with about -4 to -6dB gain reduction during normal playing, so a random spike to -25dB seems massive and it's definitely not a cable pop.
Click to expand...

I don't think -4dB to -6dB during normal playing at 4:1 is "extreme", but that's also the same thing Darkglass ultimately said. Looking at the illuminated lights on your attached image, I'm not quite even compressing as much as the image. The pops and such does happen more so when I really dig in, but I wouldn't ever expect to hit more than -10dB as that's way too squashed for my taste. It's almost like any peak that hits -10dB triggers something that just sends the compressor straight to -25dB, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
 
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#103
kcducttaper said:
I don't think -4dB to -6dB during normal playing at 4:1 is "extreme", but that's also the same thing Darkglass ultimately said. Looking at the illuminated lights on your attached image, I'm not quite even compressing as much as the image. The pops and such does happen more so when I really dig in, but I wouldn't ever expect to hit more than -10dB as that's way too squashed for my taste. It's almost like any peak that hits -10dB triggers something that just sends the compressor straight to -25dB, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Click to expand...
Shoot me an email at [email protected] with a video of the issue and I'll help you troubleshoot. If that doesn't help, we'll happily take it in for repair, which is free!
 
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#105
kcducttaper said:
I don't think -4dB to -6dB during normal playing at 4:1 is "extreme"
Click to expand...
4:1 might not be "extreme," but it's definitely a heavy-handed compression, especially if you have a low threshold. Attack and release times can make it even more heavy-handed. 4:1 with a fast attack and an very low threshold would be considered extreme compression.

3dB is double the power. -6dB means 4 times the power reduction. That means for every 4dB over the threshold you're getting 1dB out with a -3dB reduction. That means for your GR to be at -6, you're going 8dB over the threshold and only outputting 2dB. That's a fairly large gain reduction. Paired with what sounds like aggressive attack and threshold settings from how you describe the sounds and tone you're getting from your compressors, it's kinda extreme.

If you're running at -6dB all the time and crushing when you dig in, some combination of the input gain being too high and threshold being too low is happening, paired with 4:1 ratio.
 
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#106
i have quite a few comps that i really like:
Origin Bass compressor V2
FEA DE-CL
Becos Stella
Empress Bass Compressor
Darkglass Hyperluminal
UAFX 1176
UAFX LA-2A
Pumpernickel (i call my build a 160 since that's what it's modeled after)
THAT Compressor (also a DBX 160 type)
Diamond Bass comp EQ
BJFE Forest Green compressor
BJFE Pale Green compressor
 
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#107
There are a few compressor pedals that I really like. For me, the issue is that I don't seem to have the same 'relationship' with my comps as some posters on TB. There is a noticeable improvement for sure, but I wouldn't say that my comp pedals are indispensable. Maybe I should play without one for a while to see how it sounds without.
 
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#108
kcducttaper said:
I have not, but that sounds like it would be more or less ideal to split off the low lows to bypass the compressor and then sum it back in again. Is there a pedal that does that? I've seen several high pass filters that just chop off the low end, but that's not what I'm after.
Click to expand...

Threre's the new Great Eastern Fx Co. Xo Variable Crossover Frequency Splitter Pedal. Looks like a very useful pedal to have for this kind of thing. But if I was in your shoes I'd just go with the Cali76.

FWIW, one of the reasons I use the L6 Helix is the split path options. I use a crossover split on some patches with differently set compressors in each path.
 
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#109
Several of the people I play with have a L6 Helix. I've really been eyeing the Neural DSP Quad Cortex for a number of years, but it's just been too expensive and didn't really quite have the features I needed for that price point. Nobody say anything about how much I've spent on pedals or I'll come to your house and mix dried toothpaste shavings in your coffee grounds!
 
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#111
badinage said:
Only slightly OT... I once read an article that documented (with some level of claimed authority) the evolution of the VCAs used in the dbx160 variants and successors from the VU era through XT or so, including differences between origin USA / Hong Kong / Japan / China. If anyone knows where I could find such an article/documentation I'd sure appreciate a link. I'm just another fan of that series and era for bass specifically because of the audible coloration and artifacts that can be created as a result of the processing. Thank you. :)
Click to expand...
I quoted your post into ChatGPT; here is its reply (I edited the links—some duplicated—to make them easier to read):

The dbx 160 series compressors have undergone significant evolution since their introduction, reflecting changes in both design and manufacturing locations.

The original dbx 160, also known as the 160 VU, was introduced in 1976. It utilized the first commercial version of the Blackmer gain cell, the 200 VCA, and its companion RMS detector, the 207/208, which were discrete-transistor devices on small printed circuit boards encased in metal enclosures. The 160 VU is known for its "hard knee" compression curve, providing an instantaneous onset of compression that contributed to its distinctive sound. The design was entirely feed-forward, which allowed for faster attack times and more transparent gain reduction compared to feed-back designs.
As the series evolved, dbx introduced various models such as the 160X, 160XT, and 160A. These later models featured improvements in the signal path and construction while maintaining the classic dbx compression characteristics. The 160X and 160XT, for example, introduced electronically balanced outputs and additional features like the ground lift switch for professional use. The 160A further enhanced the design with an improved signal path, stronger chassis, and more advanced features like switchable OverEasy® and Hard Knee compression curves.
Manufacturing of these units has also transitioned over the years. Originally made in the USA, production later moved to Hong Kong, Japan, and China. These changes in manufacturing locations sometimes resulted in subtle differences in component quality and unit reliability, though the core design and functionality remained consistent.
For a deeper dive into the technical specifics and the evolution of these compressors, you might find Mixonline’s article on the dbx 160 series particularly informative, as well as discussions on platforms like Recording.org and Reverb for user experiences and detailed breakdowns of various models.
I leave it to you to verify ChatGPT’s results. I’m only the messenger.
 
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#112
Michael Eisenman said:
I quoted your post into ChatGPT; here is its reply (I edited the links—some duplicated—to make them easier to read):

The dbx 160 series compressors have undergone significant evolution since their introduction, reflecting changes in both design and manufacturing locations.

The original dbx 160, also known as the 160 VU, was introduced in 1976. It utilized the first commercial version of the Blackmer gain cell, the 200 VCA, and its companion RMS detector, the 207/208, which were discrete-transistor devices on small printed circuit boards encased in metal enclosures. The 160 VU is known for its "hard knee" compression curve, providing an instantaneous onset of compression that contributed to its distinctive sound. The design was entirely feed-forward, which allowed for faster attack times and more transparent gain reduction compared to feed-back designs.
As the series evolved, dbx introduced various models such as the 160X, 160XT, and 160A. These later models featured improvements in the signal path and construction while maintaining the classic dbx compression characteristics. The 160X and 160XT, for example, introduced electronically balanced outputs and additional features like the ground lift switch for professional use. The 160A further enhanced the design with an improved signal path, stronger chassis, and more advanced features like switchable OverEasy® and Hard Knee compression curves.
Manufacturing of these units has also transitioned over the years. Originally made in the USA, production later moved to Hong Kong, Japan, and China. These changes in manufacturing locations sometimes resulted in subtle differences in component quality and unit reliability, though the core design and functionality remained consistent.
For a deeper dive into the technical specifics and the evolution of these compressors, you might find Mixonline’s article on the dbx 160 series particularly informative, as well as discussions on platforms like Recording.org and Reverb for user experiences and detailed breakdowns of various models.
I leave it to you to verify ChatGPT’s results. I’m only the messenger.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much! I'll certainly read through it.

I'm specifically looking for the "evolution of the VCAs used" as the line progressed. My understanding is that the VCAs changed sometimes due to design changes and sometimes due to obsolescence and/or unavailability forcing the change. I also believe I've read that China production units are suspect (by some) of being more likely to have been produced with out-of-spec or substituted components (and I think I can hear it). I've owned (and still mostly do own) examples of every unit mentioned above, except the 160S, as well as owning examples from all the various countries of origin except Japan.

I had a racked pair of the much-hyped original 160VUs, which looked really cool and was/were great on some things, but I didn't think it was "magic" enough to keep the pair when someone offered to buy it from me for five times what I had paid.

Truth told, what I like BEST on MY electric bass is usually an original-series (black) 166, either US or Hong Kong production... with a slight edge possibly going to the Hong Kong units, hence my curiosity about what VCA (or other) change "may" have originated with various production-location changes. Again, thanks for your help!
 
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#116
I'm no compression afficonado, or expert. However, I love my Source Audio Atlas and I love the ability to literally have pretty much every type of compressor on my board all in one box. I regularly use 6 patches and nothing else. One of my patches allow me to mix between a Markbass tube and MXR type of compressors. Oh, and it's stereo and or it allows different compressors to be blended on single or seperate channels.
 
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#118
I fought the bass compressor battle for a long, long time and finally gave up. I started with a Ross compressor [yes I am that old] and progressed through several rack mount comps using the dbx 160 x for the longest time. My playing is dynamic for a wide range of volume levels and punch so I developed the un=need if you will. I was a house bass player for a studio and the engineer hated using even limiting on bass so I had a Vu meter set up in front of me so I could self modulate that really helped to define my playing consistency. I do use a compressor for many things when recording and mixing, drums, vox ect., so really got to a better understanding what they do and love the usability on comps on DAWs. When I really feel the need to compress I find that the compressor in the Source Audio Ultrawave more than up to any task. I have used the SA Atlas as well and it is an exceptional machine that offers very precise control and other useful tools.
 
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#120
Hi,
It's a long thread, honnestly it depends on what you are trying to acheive.
Keep in mind, compressors are design to reduce dynamic range it's not really an effect.
If your playing is constant, you may not need one, if it's all over the place, maybe you should consider one.
You may want to color a bit your sound with a compressor, some will, some are more transparent.
Dont wait to have a concensus here on what is the best compressor, you will never get one, you will need to find your own.
I've tried a lot of them, some that are listed over and over in this thread and they didnt work for me and ending up selling them.
Now i'm using a "studio like setup" using two pedals, going in a limtter and after in a compressor, it works very well.
 

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