- May 30, 2000
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The irony of course is your resurrecting this thread from the dead after three CK threads have been closed.
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Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?
- Thread starter Phil Smith
- Start date
- Status
The irony of course is your resurrecting this thread from the dead after three CK threads have been closed.
I guess I better get my licks in before this thread is closed also. Firstly, we ALL know that Joe Osborn is the bassplayer on "Midnight Confessions" by the Grass Roots, and not CK as her website states. Secondly, if you played with Simon and Garfunkel wouldn't you have the courtesy and decency to spell Art's name correctly? I dunno, perhaps I am being overly critical of CK at this point.
I just received a email from Treena (GirlBassPlayer1) quoting the whole Jamerson page regarding "you know who". Yesterday she went to her master's page and wrote that she now has the truth it was "you" all along... How could you expect anything else from someone who comes here with a CK agenda...
PS BTW the title of Miss Thang's email to me was "More of BL's BS"...
Ah good to be my old self again! no more Satie
PS BTW the title of Miss Thang's email to me was "More of BL's BS"...
Ah good to be my old self again! no more Satie
I've been watching the exchanges of info (and questionable assumtions) with great interest since this thread began.
It's OK. Let her go. If "ingnorance is bliss" she'll be in a coma soon.
Originally posted by peteroberts
back on topic, I don't think it's been solved yet.
Exactly what more evidence would a reasonable person require?
On Kaye's side: assertion, supposition, questionable inference, no actual evidence.
On Jamerson's side: overwhelming support from eyewitnesses, colleagues, producers, arrangers, artists, basically virtually everyone who was ever near these tracks.
indeed.
At the risk of repetition, there are none so blind as those who will not see. If someone is handed all the evidence, and still insists on taking the position that flies in the face of all that evidence, there isn't much a reasonable person can do.
I just got another post from GBP1 denying she ever sent me the aforementioned post. I sent her a copy of the original post (actually I forwarded it to her) and asked her agin not to contact me via email. If she doesn't cease I will post here what she said CK wrote to her when she first started corresponding with me (I think it would be considered ON TOPIC). I usually do not repost private emails without good reason but I want my name and ID not coming out of this person's mouth and I want it to be know that there are consequences if my desires are not met.
Date:Wed, 19 Mar 2003
From:"carolkaye"
To:<Treena>
#1-Motown recorded in MANY studios in LA: Armin Steiner's atop a 3-car garage was the first one, then others like Gold Star,
Bob Ross Studios, CBS, Sunset Sound, a few others and ending in RCA where I cut the Diana Ross things, Ain't No
Mountain High Enough etc.....I accidently got on a Motown date at TTG about 1970-71 and told the contractor "never call
me again for Motown", something I had told him in 1969, "DON'T CALL ME I won't work for Motown". I have 149 date in my
Log for Motown....
Yes, we did the bulk of Motown non-Union, even the eventual Union President played trumpet on a lot of those....but we did
them a LOT of studios, no problem.
And your husband is wrong...there's many many reasons why they won't give us credits...for one, they don't know (Motown
co. itself) just who played on which, but Gordy talked about "all the great tracks coming from LA in 1964" both on a filmed
interview in 1964 as well as in his book...all this is in the Manifesto Interview on the Forum...plus see who really started
Motown, his 2nd wife, who was the arranger and pianist and producer for the early stuff...and then the writers who "bought"
a lot of tunes (like from George Clinton etc.) had their orders (and this is in his book too, as well as other places) to produce
a "hit in the top 20 or they'd never get another chance to produce" etc. but it was the 2nd wife who left about which time
(1962) they started doing a lot of dates out here....
I met Stevie Woder as a young man about 13 (and he remembers that and said "Carol yes you played on I Was Made To
Love Her" etc. and told me many more of his recordings I also recorded for him for....back then etc. when I met up with him
at NAMM about 1998 etc.,
and we constantly saw the groups there (read Armin Steiner's interview in a trade mag. it's on my website in the photos
section, plus....Motown had 2 floors of suites of offices in the Sunset Vine Tower building, south-east corner of Sunset and
Vine, in 1962....all of us were taking our tunes up there "please reoord our tune" those of us who were recording for
Motown...there's a lot of street-people involved with that company fyi. Read the stuff, it's all there in the interviews and the
attachments.
Your husband doesn't know the inside stuff....it's deep, meaning the writers wouldn't get their royalties if the truth about us
really came out, but of course Motown does NOT have to pay anything, no re-uses no royalties to the musircians by not
acknowledging us now...plus Detroit would start a war if Gordy admitted that yes, 40% at least was cut in LA, with a lot of
white people etc....the lies have created a lot of bad stuff..and he's under pressure to continue the lies, as are those Detroit
musicians...who yes, we heard some of their recordings, as "demos" and I wondered then but we knew....you do NOT cut
"demos" from "demos"...you're cutting the REAL TRACKS....
Let me look up the Manifesto for you:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#2 Topic: My "Midnight Confessions" recording, new-use on that
Name: Carol
Date: 12-21-2002 10:23
There's been some discussion in the past about this credit that another bass player insists he played on.....well.....
Not only was I told that my name is on the Musicians' Union contract Grass Roots hit of "Midnight Confessions" (not his) but I also just got a little Christmas present of a nice "New-Use" check yesterday on it - this will be posted on the website soon.
When they first give you a royalty check for a recording you did back when, it's called a "new-use" and anything subsequent (on a TV show, other movie, or commercial), it's called a "re-use" then. No, you can't get rich off of these things, but it's nice to get a little taste. This Grass Roots recording was re-used on a movie called "Jackie Brown", by Miramax Film Corp. So there! I wonder if that guy will now take down his "stated credit" error?
Probably not, another also claims Mash, for which he never played on at all (yes he did a cameo thing with a singer in it, but that's not doing the "theme" and other cues).....am trying not to sound like sour grapes here, but all that started when I was out of sight....and perceived to be permanently "gone" from the business when I was physically crippled up for quite a few years.
Like I used to say "I'm just a little girl in a big man's world" and the guys around me in the studio would groan....they *knew*....and that's why I love them too, besides being the best men in the world, my fellow studio musicians. Yes, you can go home again and it can be even better later in life.
Here BassLand I will post it for you!
Treena
From:"carolkaye"
To:<Treena>
#1-Motown recorded in MANY studios in LA: Armin Steiner's atop a 3-car garage was the first one, then others like Gold Star,
Bob Ross Studios, CBS, Sunset Sound, a few others and ending in RCA where I cut the Diana Ross things, Ain't No
Mountain High Enough etc.....I accidently got on a Motown date at TTG about 1970-71 and told the contractor "never call
me again for Motown", something I had told him in 1969, "DON'T CALL ME I won't work for Motown". I have 149 date in my
Log for Motown....
Yes, we did the bulk of Motown non-Union, even the eventual Union President played trumpet on a lot of those....but we did
them a LOT of studios, no problem.
And your husband is wrong...there's many many reasons why they won't give us credits...for one, they don't know (Motown
co. itself) just who played on which, but Gordy talked about "all the great tracks coming from LA in 1964" both on a filmed
interview in 1964 as well as in his book...all this is in the Manifesto Interview on the Forum...plus see who really started
Motown, his 2nd wife, who was the arranger and pianist and producer for the early stuff...and then the writers who "bought"
a lot of tunes (like from George Clinton etc.) had their orders (and this is in his book too, as well as other places) to produce
a "hit in the top 20 or they'd never get another chance to produce" etc. but it was the 2nd wife who left about which time
(1962) they started doing a lot of dates out here....
I met Stevie Woder as a young man about 13 (and he remembers that and said "Carol yes you played on I Was Made To
Love Her" etc. and told me many more of his recordings I also recorded for him for....back then etc. when I met up with him
at NAMM about 1998 etc.,
and we constantly saw the groups there (read Armin Steiner's interview in a trade mag. it's on my website in the photos
section, plus....Motown had 2 floors of suites of offices in the Sunset Vine Tower building, south-east corner of Sunset and
Vine, in 1962....all of us were taking our tunes up there "please reoord our tune" those of us who were recording for
Motown...there's a lot of street-people involved with that company fyi. Read the stuff, it's all there in the interviews and the
attachments.
Your husband doesn't know the inside stuff....it's deep, meaning the writers wouldn't get their royalties if the truth about us
really came out, but of course Motown does NOT have to pay anything, no re-uses no royalties to the musircians by not
acknowledging us now...plus Detroit would start a war if Gordy admitted that yes, 40% at least was cut in LA, with a lot of
white people etc....the lies have created a lot of bad stuff..and he's under pressure to continue the lies, as are those Detroit
musicians...who yes, we heard some of their recordings, as "demos" and I wondered then but we knew....you do NOT cut
"demos" from "demos"...you're cutting the REAL TRACKS....
Let me look up the Manifesto for you:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#2 Topic: My "Midnight Confessions" recording, new-use on that
Name: Carol
Date: 12-21-2002 10:23
There's been some discussion in the past about this credit that another bass player insists he played on.....well.....
Not only was I told that my name is on the Musicians' Union contract Grass Roots hit of "Midnight Confessions" (not his) but I also just got a little Christmas present of a nice "New-Use" check yesterday on it - this will be posted on the website soon.
When they first give you a royalty check for a recording you did back when, it's called a "new-use" and anything subsequent (on a TV show, other movie, or commercial), it's called a "re-use" then. No, you can't get rich off of these things, but it's nice to get a little taste. This Grass Roots recording was re-used on a movie called "Jackie Brown", by Miramax Film Corp. So there! I wonder if that guy will now take down his "stated credit" error?
Probably not, another also claims Mash, for which he never played on at all (yes he did a cameo thing with a singer in it, but that's not doing the "theme" and other cues).....am trying not to sound like sour grapes here, but all that started when I was out of sight....and perceived to be permanently "gone" from the business when I was physically crippled up for quite a few years.
Like I used to say "I'm just a little girl in a big man's world" and the guys around me in the studio would groan....they *knew*....and that's why I love them too, besides being the best men in the world, my fellow studio musicians. Yes, you can go home again and it can be even better later in life.
Here BassLand I will post it for you!
Treena
gbp1 did not post all of the post but that is OK at least it should be clear what her intention are on behalf of Carol Kaye (on topic? yes). The more I see the vendictive side of gbp1 the more I think she IS Carol...
BTW therewas a short post that she apparently decided to delete earlier... she must have changed her mind. I am out of this. I told gbp1 that I did not want to correspond with her privately now I think I will add a desire not to correspond with her publicly also. All that needs to be said on the subject matter has been said anyway so adios muchachos
BL
BTW therewas a short post that she apparently decided to delete earlier... she must have changed her mind. I am out of this. I told gbp1 that I did not want to correspond with her privately now I think I will add a desire not to correspond with her publicly also. All that needs to be said on the subject matter has been said anyway so adios muchachos
BL
I tend to agree. For what it's worth, I just popped an email off to Joe Osborn pointing to this thread. I'm hoping he would be willing to respond to the "Midnight Confessions" comments from Carole.
Originally posted by girlbassplayer1
Date:Wed, 19 Mar 2003
From:"carolkaye"
To:<Treena>
....Stevie Woder???
- Status
