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Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?

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#61
Hmm... she may well have played on Stevie Woder's recording of "I Was Made To Love Her", but not Stevie Wonder's :D

What is with this seemingly contradictory statements from Stevie himself (Wonder, not Woder that is :D)?

Kaye reckons Stevie says that she played on IWMTLH, whereas Slutsky says that Stevie claims Jamerson played it.

Hmm...
 
#66
I don't claim to know the truth here, but I suspect that she played on re-cuts and demos, but believes she played on the real songs. Considering the number of hits she is known to have played on I don't think she would need to intentionally lie to bolster her reputation.

I don't know how recordings were done during that time period (maybe someone knowledgable about it could fill me in), but if they cut the rhythm tracks without the singer present, and never told her who the recordings were for, she could easily have assumed that she was playing on the original hits.

Just one man's opinion, but I would rather give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is mistaken, unless it is actually proven that she intentionally lied. I just don't see the point in getting angry about it like some in previous threads have.

Jamerson was one of the greatest, and probably most influencial, bassists of all time. Carol Kaye is also a great bassist. That won't change regardless of who played on the songs in question. I think instead of worrying about who played on the songs I'll just listen to them and enjoy them for the great music that they are. People loved these songs for years before anyone even knew who James Jamerson was, and I can enjoy them now without knowing for certain who played bass.
 
#67
Originally posted by geshel
Looks to me like the entire case for CK's claims lies somewhere between

- the trial-lawyer classic "But isn't it possible that. . .", and

- "nuh uh! sez who??"
Click to expand...

Yep. Big difference between "coulda" and "did." I *coulda* seen every one of Sandy Koufax's winning games in Dodger Stadium in '65--I went to enough Dodger games that year--but in fact I *didn't*.

I've seen no evidence for "did" on CK's side; it's all on the other side.
 
#68
I went to CK's site and listened to the "Bernadette" track, and it is laughable. There is not one little itsy bitsy piece of funk on that track. In stark contrast, the soloed bass track of Jamerson playing the tune on the SITSOM DVD is dripping with grease, AND you can hear the drum track bleed. Carol claims she always had a miked amp...so where's the bleed? Also, the clip is a minute plus long, but there's only 19 seconds of audible bass line. Where's the rest? Does she expect us to believe they sent the tape out to LA to replace Jamerson's track with hers?

Please.

I'm with BL...I think gbp1 is Carol. She's been here before under another alias.

And one more thing...this speculation that Motown doesn't want to admit it used white players on alot of their tracks. What about Bob Babbitt and Joe Messina...especially Messina? Everybody knew these cats were white, and it didn't mean a thing. Watch the SITSOM movie and see how emotional Babbitt gets when he's talking to M'chelle Ndegeocello about how he was treated by the black Funk Brothers. There was no color down in the "Snake Pit".
 
#69
Originally posted by tuBass
Actually, I was hoping to get it closed before a certain person got her claws into it.

I cant believe I missed this one. *Embarassed look*

So far this thread has been civil. I cant just close a thread because I want to. Certain things have to apply. Like having multiple topics on the same subject, it turns into a flame war, goes way off topic, etc, etc. You guys know the deal. However If the majority of the people posting in this thread want it closed, just let me know and I'll close it. Democrasy in action.
Click to expand...
 
#70
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey


At the risk of repetition, there are none so blind as those who will not see. If someone is handed all the evidence, and still insists on taking the position that flies in the face of all that evidence, there isn't much a reasonable person can do.
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Peter McFerrin

The mind staggers.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The issue here is the word "reasonable". Some people (i.e. GBP1) don't understand the concept.

e.g. There is a possibility that an alien from the planet Funk occupied the body of Jamerson and actually played all of his stuff; and that alien now occupies the body of Carol Kaye. Well?? It's possible, isn't it? Show me the proof this didn't happen!! ;) :eek:
 
#73
I just listened to the clips of "Bernadette" and "I Was Made To Love Her" from her site, side by side. Interestingly, the tone is a little different, it sounds like she's rolled off the treble on "I Was Made To Love Her". Which, makes it sound a little more like it was played fingerstyle, but still clearly played with a pick.

That Bernadette clip, in particular, really does not sound like Jamerson.
 
#74
Originally posted by Showdown
I don't claim to know the truth here, but I suspect that she played on re-cuts and demos, but believes she played on the real songs. Considering the number of hits she is known to have played on I don't think she would need to intentionally lie to bolster her reputation.

I don't know how recordings were done during that time period (maybe someone knowledgable about it could fill me in), but if they cut the rhythm tracks without the singer present, and never told her who the recordings were for, she could easily have assumed that she was playing on the original hits.

Just one man's opinion, but I would rather give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is mistaken, unless it is actually proven that she intentionally lied. I just don't see the point in getting angry about it like some in previous threads have.

I'd give her the benefit of the doubt too if there had been any ongoing displays of any Jamerson-esque prowess after her Motown recordings. This is not a slam on her playing. Can someone name one post-Motown recording of hers that sounds like Jamerson? Even better, one recorded after he passed away;)

Bottom line, in our heart of hearts I think most of us know what we sound like. We also know what we don't sound like. Just as I don't think anyone would mistake Jaco for Stanley Clarke, I don't think based on what I've heard I'd mistake Carol for James.

Still witing on proof to the contrary.

Jamerson was one of the greatest, and probably most influencial, bassists of all time. Carol Kaye is also a great bassist. That won't change regardless of who played on the songs in question. I think instead of worrying about who played on the songs I'll just listen to them and enjoy them for the great music that they are. People loved these songs for years before anyone even knew who James Jamerson was, and I can enjoy them now without knowing for certain who played bass.

I still think credit where credit is due is very important, either way.
Click to expand...
 
#75
Originally posted by moley
I just listened to the clips of "Bernadette" and "I Was Made To Love Her" from her site, side by side. Interestingly, the tone is a little different, it sounds like she's rolled off the treble on "I Was Made To Love Her". Which, makes it sound a little more like it was played fingerstyle, but still clearly played with a pick.
Click to expand...

I just got done listening to both the clip and radio realese of I was made to love her.

IMO that doesnt prove that Carol played the song. It only proves that she knows how to play it.

1. Her clip is definatly pick strokes, the other is not.

2. The tone of the bass is totally different in each. Not including the pick/finger style issue

3. The playing in clip is some-what sloppy IMO

4. I heard some distortion throughout parts of Carols clip that I did not hear on the radio release.
 
#76
You're right, Cass.

But is Carol even claiming that the clip from her site is the actual bass track from the record? If she is, then, well... she's crazier than I thought :D

A while back I did a comparison (just like you) with the hit version of IWMTLH and the clip from CK's site. I'm sure I found the hit version to be slower in tempo (and not to mention funkier) than hers...
 
#77
I cant help but shake one issue I have in my mind about the whole thing. Why didnt she make these claims when James Jamerson was still alive.

So I figured Id go stright to the source on that one and posted the question at her site. I'm seriously doubting it will even make it past the moderator (which I assume is her) and onto the board let alone answered. But its worth a shot.

I cant stop thinkin that, because if it were me Id have said it when he's still alive.
 
#78
According to her she was making these claims since 1969. If IWMTLH was recorded in 67 why did she wait till 69 to start claiming it.

secondly,I do believe she is not claiming the clip you hear on her site is from the session...

Well, maybe that is from her IWMTLH session...

WHat you should listen to her recording of I was Made To Love Her with the Beach Boys. It was made closer to the Stevie Wonder release and it sounds about as much like James Jamerson as my 19 month old grandson does...
 
#80
***This is a joke***

In another thread someone put up a picture of Carol and identified her as Jamerson. I thought it was kind of funny and posted a picture of a hand with a CK pick taped to it. Afer digging for all the pictures I could "find" of James, I "found" this one... it really does solve the mystery...
Invalid Link Removed
LOL
 
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