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Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?

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#121
I reckon you might be onto something there, Craig.

As regards IWMTLH - the fact that Carol was talking about doubling horn lines with the bass part, and there are no horns on the original (IIRC) - doesn't this sorta disprove her claim that she played on the original?
 
#122
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey


With equal respect, after reading everything I could find on the topic, and especially after watching SITSOM and seeing how Jamerson's peers spoke about him and what they did ... see, I don't think the issue is that "deep" at all. This thing doesn't have to be made into an Area 51 sized conspiracy theory. It's not rocket science, and it's not Cold War espionage. Either Jamerson did those tracks or he didn't. AFAIAC the overwhelming evidence says Jamerson did those tracks, and the only reason the issue might seem so "deep" is that it has been needlessly and pointlessly complicated by other parties. I'm not getting into the motivations or psychological makeup of anyone involved, and I'm certainly not putting the onus for this controversy this on you personally. I just don't see how any reasonable person could come to another conclusion than the one I just listed, given the state of the available evidence.

None of this means that I don't deeply respect the contributions *both* Kaye and Jamerson have made to our instrument. I do, and so, I'd venture to say, do most if not all of the posters on this thread. It's quite possible to feel that way, with full sincerity, and still feel that this controversy is a crock.
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Amen, brother.

This is perhaps the best-written, most intelligent post I've ever read on this or any other topic.

:cool:
 
#123
Originally posted by Josh Walsh
Personally, I'm pretty sure that it's JJ, but I wouldn't bet my mortgage payment on it.
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Josh...you're killin' me man :eek: .

And watch that 2nd DVD. It actually carries the story of the Funk Bros another two years after the movie was filmed (2000). I don't want to give it away, but there are sadly two fewer Funk Brothers now than at the time the film was completed. :crying:
 
#125
Originally posted by Josh Walsh
And just a thought on the "controversy", couldn't JJ have recorded a scratch track which was then transcribed and given to CK to read verbatim.

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"Coulda" ain't "did". Aliens coulda landed near Area 51; I just need to see some evidence that they did before I believe it.

Let's apply Occam's razor here, according to which "the simplest of competing theories [should] be preferred to the more complex." You have a crack Detroit band that's working constantly. They're great, and all the producers and artists know it. That's why they keep their jobs for all these years. They remember doing these specific tracks that are in dispute. Everybody else around those tracks remembers them doing them. Why would anybody believe--*without a shred of supporting evidence other than the claims of one person*--that somehow the label secretly shipped the tapes across the country and had them recut by the LA crew? Why even have a crack Detroit band if you're gonna do that? It makes sense to cut stuff in LA that there's no time for cutting in Detroit, or stuff that's better suited to the LA crew (James Darren, maybe?), but by all accounts (except Kaye's) the disputed tracks were neither of these. Again, Occam's razor.

I'm certain that Kaye cut tracks for Motown. I believe she did the tracks on the TCB soundtrack. There's evidence for that. There's no evidence I can see that she did THOSE tracks in dispute--the *original* Bernadette, I Was Made To Love her, etc.--and a whole lot of evidence to say Jamerson did. I'd bet a mortgage payment on it.
 
#128
Originally posted by Craig Garfinkel
Richard,

Stop trying to confuse everyone with the facts!

:ninja:









Don't ask me why I used the ninja symbol...I really don't know.
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Sorry, I try to stop, I know that vague inferences, murky what-ifs, half-baked conspiracy theories, and unsupported claims would advance the cause of truth better ... but something about the sheer illogic of parts of this dispute just pushes my buttons. Hard.

I don't know why the ninja either, but it's cool!;)
 
#131
:hmm:

I was a bit hesitant to do this, but if you're interested in what Carol herself has to say on the matter today (and in response to the now missing GBP1 aka "Treena") you can follow this link:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If this is uncool mods, please delete. But this is public domain and on topic...right?
 
#132
The fisrt paragraph from that post:

"There's always a few who don't want to (or can't) read the truth at times - they'd rather blindly "march" to the most-vocal person, no thinking required then - why all those garbage gossip-rumor books sell. It always takes most people about 2 years to really dicipher others' motives - the lies and all.....Thank-you Frank for your message".

Maybe I'm looking at this in a skewed fashion but the most vocal person and the person who seems to have a few marchers that can't read the truth and still carry on the good fight... seems to be Ms. Kaye. You'd think a group of thinkers could muster up a bit more proof than what's been offered.

Then this is all blamed on sexism. I've heard it blamed on racism before too which makes the esteem Babbitt and Joe Messina are held in a real puzzler.

Heck, at this point I'd bet a mortgage payment on what I think.
 
#133
Originally posted by BassLand
Has anyone noticed that GBP1 has quietly taken most of her posts on this board down? I guess it was so welcome not to have to deal with her flawed logic that nobody noticed she had "farted and left the room" LOL
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I noticed that she became a supporting member right away, and now she isn't even listed as a member. I guess she got banned. do a user search, she isn't there....
Maybe she was never there...
:eek:
 
#134
Originally posted by BassLand
Has anyone noticed that GBP1 has quietly taken most of her posts on this board down? I guess it was so welcome not to have to deal with her flawed logic that nobody noticed she had "farted and left the room" LOL
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Her posts stopped at around about the same time as somebody suggested that she and Carol were one and the same person....:hmm:
 
#136
Originally posted by tuBass


I noticed that she became a supporting member right away, and now she isn't even listed as a member. I guess she got banned. do a user search, she isn't there....
Maybe she was never there...
:eek:
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That's even more suspicious - she didn't really say anything worth getting banned for - she must have asked Paul to remove her account! There must have been somthing fishy going on - all I remember is that she said I wrote nicely - a compliment from CK ?? :hmm:
 
#137
Originally posted by tuBass


I noticed that she became a supporting member right away, and now she isn't even listed as a member. I guess she got banned. do a user search, she isn't there....
Maybe she was never there...
:eek:
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Actually that's not true - follow this link :

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=32576

And she hasn't removed all her posts - her last one is on page 3 of this very thread!

But it is weird that she is no longer a supporting member - maybe she just asked Paul for her money back, after not finding TB to be to her liking? ;)
 
#139
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Actually that's not true - follow this link :

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=32576

And she hasn't removed all her posts - her last one is on page 3 of this very thread!

But it is weird that she is no longer a supporting member - maybe she just asked Paul for her money back, after not finding TB to be to her liking? ;)
Click to expand...

I know her profile is still there, but go to the user search function and type in her name. It's not there. never having seen an actual banned poster, I don't know if this is normal or not.
 
#140
And just a thought on the "controversy", couldn't JJ have recorded a scratch track which was then transcribed and given to CK to read verbatim.
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Here is a more likely scenario, Jamerson recorded the song, some arranger transcribed it, made a chart and then sent it to Cal to let the hotshot's there re-do the song as a PUBLISHNG DEMO ie $25 for two songs. Something that the union allows. Yes Carol, GBP1, THey do make demos of demos, for leagal reasons they would not have just used the Funk Brothers backing track to sell the songs. Motown (as a money making intity) was a publish company and they sold SONGS most of us acknowlege the record making business but that it only funneled revenue to Jobete. When Gordy sold the record company he kept the publishing company until recently and that was Always where the money was.
 
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