Carvin LB75 ressurection

[Slidlow]

There it is. The deed is done. Fretboard glued. Probably tomorrow morning I'll unclamp and tap the the last two frets and start cleaning it up.

 

[Beej]

Loving this rebuild!

 

[Jisch]

My first "real" bass was a koa Carvin LB75 with a koa neck. I had the "No show" option, so you couldn't see the neck through the top. I loved that bass, it developed a back bow and I had to send it back to Carvin for a neck reset with heat. After it came back it was fine until it burned up in my house fire (the ultimate heat "reset"?). I'm late to the party here, but as you discovered, that didn't look like koa to me, mine was more honey brown than brown brown.

I bought a Kiesel Icon 5 to get back playing as quickly as possible after the fire, that bass looks and sounds amazing, but the neck was very unstable for the first year I owned it. No joke, I was doing 1/2 turns on the truss rod weekly and it was kept in a relatively stable humidity, indoors with heat/AC, I've never had a neck move like that. Since that time it's settled down and has needed only very minor seasonal touch ups. I was surprised, with embedded carbon rods, that a neck would move like that.

Great project, thanks for documenting it!

 

[Slidlow]

So here is the new fretboard!

I keep a mental note of things and at the beginning I found the bridge saddles were moved back quite far. At the time I didn't check intonation. I added a thin veneer to the headstock and that moved the break point for the neck plane to headstock plane about 3/32". I played with the idea of a Fender style thin nut and run the fretboard out further but remembered the bridge saddle issue I had observed. So I repositioned the saddles at their most forward adjustment and placed the board where it would need to be to have a nut like original and found the fretboard was 3/32" further away from the bridge (naturally) and that the bridge saddle lined up much better. This should give a little more adjustment for the B string. It all worked out. I just need to trim at the base of the neck.

 

[Slidlow]

My first "real" bass was a koa Carvin LB75 with a koa neck. I had the "No show" option, so you couldn't see the neck through the top. I loved that bass, it developed a back bow and I had to send it back to Carvin for a neck reset with heat. After it came back it was fine until it burned up in my house fire (the ultimate heat "reset"?). I'm late to the party here, but as you discovered, that didn't look like koa to me, mine was more honey brown than brown brown.
I bought a Kiesel Icon 5 to get back playing as quickly as possible after the fire, that bass looks and sounds amazing, but the neck was very unstable for the first year I owned it. No joke, I was doing 1/2 turns on the truss rod weekly and it was kept in a relatively stable humidity, indoors with heat/AC, I've never had a neck move like that. Since that time it's settled down and has needed only very minor seasonal touch ups. I was surprised, with embedded carbon rods, that a neck would move like that.
Great project, thanks for documenting it!

This is the first time I've held a Carvin so it has been interesting. Not having any preconceptions there are a number of observations that I may detail at the end regarding design, build quality and overall QC. These would be tempered by the obvious poor care and maintenance that has been inflicted on this unfortunate instrument.

 

[Jisch]

This is the first time I've held a Carvin so it has been interesting. Not having any preconceptions there are a number of observations that I may detail at the end regarding design, build quality and overall QC. These would be tempered by the obvious poor care and maintenance that has been inflicted on this poor instrument.

I don't have the LB75 to A/B compare to the Icon, but from my memory this Icon is miles above the LB with regards to design and fit/finish. It's way more refined. The neck movement was counter to their marketing message, but in doing some searching around it seems my experience was not unique at all (specifically with the Icon). I found quite a few examples of people experiencing the same. Perhaps they are over-drying their wood - they do run their own kiln.

 

[subtlestew]

My first "real" bass was a koa Carvin LB75 with a koa neck. I had the "No show" option, so you couldn't see the neck through the top. I loved that bass, it developed a back bow and I had to send it back to Carvin for a neck reset with heat. After it came back it was fine until it burned up in my house fire (the ultimate heat "reset"?). I'm late to the party here, but as you discovered, that didn't look like koa to me, mine was more honey brown than brown brown.

I bought a Kiesel Icon 5 to get back playing as quickly as possible after the fire, that bass looks and sounds amazing, but the neck was very unstable for the first year I owned it. No joke, I was doing 1/2 turns on the truss rod weekly and it was kept in a relatively stable humidity, indoors with heat/AC, I've never had a neck move like that. Since that time it's settled down and has needed only very minor seasonal touch ups. I was surprised, with embedded carbon rods, that a neck would move like that.

Great project, thanks for documenting it!

I don't have the LB75 to A/B compare to the Icon, but from my memory this Icon is miles above the LB with regards to design and fit/finish. It's way more refined. The neck movement was counter to their marketing message, but in doing some searching around it seems my experience was not unique at all (specifically with the Icon). I found quite a few examples of people experiencing the same. Perhaps they are over-drying their wood - they do run their own kiln.

I've had a number of Carvins over the years, including a beautiful Icon that I didn't keep very long because I grew to prefer passive basses. Like others on TB, I grew up drooling over the Carvin catalogs as a kid, so while it's been fun for me to buy and sell a few of their instruments (including a fretless LB75) during my decade-plus-long ongoing GAS attacks, what I used to really dream of was ordering my own with all of the options chosen by me from the many catalog (now website) options. I finally "lived the dream," ordering my own PB4 to my specifications in August. It's supposed to arrive in January, but now, @Jisch, you've got me worried, as I'm also in Connecticut USA and I don't want to be adjusting the truss rod on a weekly basis. Hope mine's a bit more stable than that! (I'll definitely post a NBD thread when it arrives...)

@Slidlow, thanks so much for this wonderful thread. I've been on TB for decades, and this is one of my all-time favorite threads, no question. Great work.

 

[mmbass21]

I've had a number of Carvins over the years, including a beautiful Icon that I didn't keep very long because I grew to prefer passive basses. Like others on TB, I grew up drooling over the Carvin catalogs as a kid, so while it's been fun for me to buy and sell a few of their instruments (including a fretless LB75) during my decade-plus-long ongoing GAS attacks, what I used to really dream of was ordering my own with all of the options chosen by me from the many catalog (now website) options. I finally "lived the dream," ordering my own PB4 to my specifications in August. It's supposed to arrive in January, but now, @Jisch, you've got me worried, as I'm also in Connecticut USA and I don't want to be adjusting the truss rod on a weekly basis. Hope mine's a bit more stable than that! (I'll definitely post a NBD thread when it arrives...)

@Slidlow, thanks so much for this wonderful thread. I've been on TB for decades, and this is one of my all-time favorite threads, no question. Great work.

I've owned a couple LB75s and currently have one from 2003 and outside of an initial setup never touched the truss rods although I am in the perfect spot in FL. I had 3 different Kiesels that were bolt ons and never adjusted a thing from the factory. I owned one of those for 4 years, giged with it and had several string changes and only adjusted the intonation once. The most stable bass I've ever owned, it was just too heavy for me so I let it go.

 

[Slidlow]

I don't have the LB75 to A/B compare to the Icon, but from my memory this Icon is miles above the LB with regards to design and fit/finish. It's way more refined. The neck movement was counter to their marketing message, but in doing some searching around it seems my experience was not unique at all (specifically with the Icon). I found quite a few examples of people experiencing the same. Perhaps they are over-drying their wood - they do run their own kiln.

Not having seen the original truss rod, except for the route left behind, I guess it is of less then stellar design. This may have led to attempted adjustments, eventual failure and subsequent poorly executed replacement. Your experience seems to lead me to believe they may have continued use of that design. As well poor drying practices may be a factor as well. The same people are running Kiesel so bad habits may have carried over. My biggest issue was with the neck carve. This still had the original finish so I'm pretty sure the neck was untouched except for the bore holes. The profile is very inconsistent side to side and along the length. Knowing they did asymmetrical necks I checked with a profile gauge and found the variances not enough to prove that design and pretty much show a very poorly carved neck. I can correct somewhat but not 100% as it would leave the neck very thin overall and it is pretty thin now. There is also a lot of evidence of maybe over zealous sanding all over the bass prior to the original finish. Maybe inexperienced employees or lacking QC? From what you indicate with your Kiesel some of these items may have been addressed over the years. I am just looking at this one instrument.

 

[Slidlow]

@Slidlow, thanks so much for this wonderful thread. I've been on TB for decades, and this is one of my all-time favorite threads, no question. Great work.

You are very welcome.

 

[Jisch]

Not having seen the original truss rod, except for the route left behind, I guess it is of less then stellar design. This may have led to attempted adjustments, eventual failure and subsequent poorly executed replacement. Your experience seems to lead me to believe they may have continued use of that design. As well poor drying practices may be a factor as well. The same people are running Kiesel so bad habits may have carried over. My biggest issue was with the neck carve. This still had the original finish so I'm pretty sure the neck was untouched except for the bore holes. The profile is very inconsistent side to side and along the length. Knowing they did asymmetrical necks I checked with a profile gauge and found the variances not enough to prove that design and pretty much show a very poorly carved neck. I can correct somewhat but not 100% as it would leave the neck very thin overall and it is pretty thin now. There is also a lot of evidence of maybe over zealous sanding all over the bass prior to the original finish. Maybe inexperienced employees or lacking QC? From what you indicate with your Kiesel some of these items may have been addressed over the years. I am just looking at this one instrument.

I didn't do that level of assessment on either of my Carvin basses, but overall I am impressed by the Icon. I'll take a closer look at it with a profile gauge when I get a chance.

 

[Slidlow]

Just to be clear I have no intention to knock Carvin or any other production instrument. Yes even Carvins are essentially production though you can custom order. Being semi retired and having lots of time I can allow my OCD to control every file and sandpaper stroke. I can pine over every tiny detail without having to worry about a bottom line so my standard is extremely high if not unobtainable by most manufacturers. I've also been building since the late 70s so I have had a lot of time to hone my skills. Still every now and then even I blunder so I wouldn't want anyone to take my observations as a reflection on all Carvins and especially not regarding later Kiesels.

 

[Slidlow]

I didn't do that level of assessment on either of my Carvin basses, but overall I am impressed by the Icon. I'll take a closer look at it with a profile gauge when I get a chance.

I wouldn't have checked the neck either but for the fact that it felt really weird when I first played it before stripping it down for the rebuild.

 

[Jeff Siddall]

The profile stuff sounds strange as the necks are CNC cut now. Maybe the LB75 was from a pre-CNC era.

 

[Slidlow]

The profile stuff sounds strange as the necks are CNC cut now. Maybe the LB75 was from a pre-CNC era.

My suspicion is the neck was machine cut (CNC or otherwise) symmetrical and went out of whack during final hand finishing but that is speculation on my part.

 

[Slidlow]

I was surprised, with embedded carbon rods, that a neck would move like that.

@Jisch I did notice that the rods in this neck were in there with wood glue. I've installed the new rods with epoxy for a better bond with the wood. If the wood glue failed to hold the carbon rods then they really wouldn't do what they were supposed to.

 

[Jisch]

I don't mean to knock Keisel either, I suspect my bass is an outlier, though like I said I have read others having a similar issue. I bought it out of their "in stock" basses as I needed something quickly and I had some insurance money to spend, I don't know how long it was sitting in their shop (not that it should matter). It's a great bass in looks, playability and stability (now). I doubt I'll ever part with it. The electronics are a vast improvement over the LB75, of that I am very confident.

 

[mmbass21]

I don't mean to knock Keisel either, I suspect my bass is an outlier, though like I said I have read others having a similar issue. I bought it out of their "in stock" basses as I needed something quickly and I had some insurance money to spend, I don't know how long it was sitting in their shop (not that it should matter). It's a great bass in looks, playability and stability (now). I doubt I'll ever part with it. The electronics are a vast improvement over the LB75, of that I am very confident.

I will say one of the reasons I haven't built another Kiesel is because the upcharge to put in different electronics and routes for any pickup but theirs. I love their current work but imo their focus is on guitars now and not basses because there really hasn't been any new innovation with them in years now.

 

[Slidlow]

I will say one of the reasons I haven't built another Kiesel is because the upcharge to put in different electronics and routes for any pickup but theirs. I love their current work but imo their focus is on guitars now and not basses because there really hasn't been any new innovation with them in years now.

I guess if you love guitars you build guitars and if you love basses you build guitars and basses!

 

[Jisch]

I asked on one of their live streams what the percentage of basses vs guitars that they make. Jeff got a bit pissed and said "I won't answer any questions about numbers of instruments".