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Cello Player Trying Electric Bass

#41
You can certainly tune a bass guitar in fifths if you like, there is even a club for that. The fifths tuning is actually a very nice choice for a bass guitar and some DB players also use it. To the best of my knowledge it was the DB musician Red Mitchell who inspired some of us to try fifths in fact. If you want to copy existing pop/rock/jazz bass lines then fourths has the advantage that they were all written around what is easy to do in that tuning. Most of the time you can do them in fifths too, but if all BG players had tuned in fifths from the beginning then the classic bass lines would have been written differently because some of them are challenging in fifths. If you want to try to play the Bach Cello Suites on a BG then fifths is a good choice. It will also encourage you to be different and perhaps, if you are good enough, stand out from all the other bass players. These are not bad things. I have to buy custom string sets but not being able to play someone else's bass has never been an issue for me. If you want to keep that ability but tune in fifths then just carry around a set of strings for the fifths tuning. You can convert any bass in the time it takes to re-string it and no harm will be done to the bass.

If you tune in fifths then you will have no learning curve to climb when it comes to playing from music because all the notes will be right where you expect them to be. Except that they aren't. They are too far apart!! So there will be some learning either way. If you go with a short scale bass then its 30 inch scale will be closer to the 27 inch cello scale you are familiar with. Maybe that is an advantage but maybe it would be better to go with the traditional 34 inch bass scale because being close to what you expect but not quite might be harder to adapt to than a larger scale difference would be. I have no personal experience with this and mine might be different from yours anyway. One down side to the shorter scale is that if you choose to tune CGDA but an octave below a cello then that low C is a bit low for the 30 inch scale. I'm happy with it on my one short scale bass but certainly not everyone here on TB would be. You can probably find some nice used basses for $75 if you look around and you can get some nice new ones for $200 to $500. No need to spend more than that really.

If you decide to tune in fourths the way nearly everyone else does then you can undoubtedly learn to deal with that. People play a lot of different guitar-like instruments with different tunings without issues and you would not be the first to move back and fourth between the BG and a violin family instrument either. One of the other people who inspired me to try the fifths tuning, Dennis Masuzzo, tunes his DB in fifths but has kept his BG in fourths! Or at least he did the last time we chatted. I switched from fourths to fifths and if you want to go with fourths you should keep in mind that the two actually have three strings, not just one, in common. Both tunings have A, D, and G strings and even though those strings are upside down from one another between the two tunings it actually helps quite a bit that they are common between the two tunings. Red Mitchell retooled his thinking from fourths to fifths over the course of a one week long vacation. I'm no Red Mitchell, nowhere close, but it only took me two weeks.

So whichever way you decide to go it is a very doable transition and you should quickly become comfortable switching back and forth between the two instruments. Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride!
 
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#43
Learn to play in standard tuning, as everyone says. When you have reached a plateau you may want to experiment with alternate tunings, but it isn't ever necessary to learn any other tunings except in some special cases. 5ths tuning is very rare among electric bass players. It is better known, but still rare, among upright bass players, Red Mitchell being one of the best known of those. Moving from 4 strings to 5 strings, still in 4ths tuning, is a much more common way to increase the range and flexibility of the electric bass. Some genres tend to use down tuning (lowering all strings) or drop tuning (lowering the lowest string) for specific effects using open strings, or just to enable easier communication among bass and guitar players using similar tuning. You might even want to try 4ths tuning on the cello!
 
#45
Max Marsh said:
I've noticed that the frets are very large and I can barely get my fingers along the neck for one string (I tried money by Pink Floyd). Is the fret less spaced that far apart or are the note gaps more like a cello?
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The spacing is the same, but you are used to hitting the sweet spots with your left hand. On a fretted bass, you don't need to be as precise, but missing by a bit will give you a clacking sound. I find it harder to play frets without looking at the neck to make sure I land in the middle, between the frets and not so close to either the one behind or the one on front of my finger. Fretless basses are usually dirt cheap at used music stores because many buy them and give up in frustration, but most are afraid to try, so they don't move quickly from the stores.
 
#47
Max Marsh said:
I am not planning on getting a teacher (money and time requirements) so would I be able to pick it up pretty easily?
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In a single word- yes.

If you're familiar with one stringed instrument, many of the skills acquired for playing that instrument will transfer to another.

I think you may be surprised to discover how quickly you catch on.
 
#48
Stewie said:
The spacing is the same, but you are used to hitting the sweet spots with your left hand. On a fretted bass, you don't need to be as precise, but missing by a bit will give you a clacking sound. I find it harder to play frets without looking at the neck to make sure I land in the middle, between the frets and not so close to either the one behind or the one on front of my finger. Fretless basses are usually dirt cheap at used music stores because many buy them and give up in frustration, but most are afraid to try, so they don't move quickly from the stores.
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Except the "proper" technique for a fretted instrument is to put your finger just behind and up against the target fret. Fetting in the middle space between two frets will adversely affect the sustain and clarity of the note being played.
 
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#49
Max Marsh said:
To everyone: when you play do you actually think of the notes or just the pattern? I regret that I learned positions and not notes so should I focus on learning the notes themselves or just the tab (if I got that term wrong sorry).

And I am able to read the notes it just does not come naturally
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Dear OP,

I never had a chance to employ my time being taught in music theory and, hence, I can't read not write music.
However, because of this handicap (I consider it this way) I had to develop my musical hear and, in doing so, you reach a level when can feel the distance in tones and semitones between the note you are playing and the note you'd like to reach pressing the strings on the right fret without altering or affecting the notes stream in a tune.
At that point in time to play a cello or a bass or a guitar does not make so much of a difference although, of course, you need a practice over a specific instrument, based on its particular tuning, to be really proficient at it.
I'd like to play cello as you can play long, sustained notes ... It is a instrument for melodies ... Very expensive basses have to be sought for a sustained and singing tone unfortunately ...
 
#50
One of my few regrets in life is not taking up cello younger. By the time I did, (at age 32) there were no teachers willing to spend/waste time with anyone my age, regardless of experience with upright bass. I just downloaded some elementary stuff, and went it alone. These days, I just play it at home to amuse myself.

I do remember it wasn't that hard of a transition, going from 4ths to 5ths, at least not mentally. Good luck OP. :thumbsup:
 
#52
Max Marsh said:
I have been playing classical cello for over 8 years and have wanted to try and pick up an electric bass. I have toyed around on it before with small riffs and am wondering if any cello players have found it easy to switch between the 2 instruments. Would it also be beneficial to tune the bass to an ADGC pattern to read bass clef or keep the bass as it is and learn frets? I have an amp in my house and I could play alongside someone with electric guitar. I would still continue cello but i was wondering if it would be cost effective to pick up a 75$ bass and play around with it occasionally.
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Since you have muscle memory with an instrument tuned in fifths---- give that a try.
Some upright players do just that. Look up what open strings are used for fifth tuning ( Upton Bass could help). Then get BG strings to match.

A great bassist to listen to is the late Red Mitchel. He has some great stuff on YouTube --- Clarke Terry on flugelhorn and Red on bass.
 
#53
Max Marsh said:
I have been playing classical cello for over 8 years and have wanted to try and pick up an electric bass. I have toyed around on it before with small riffs and am wondering if any cello players have found it easy to switch between the 2 instruments. Would it also be beneficial to tune the bass to an ADGC pattern to read bass clef or keep the bass as it is and learn frets? I have an amp in my house and I could play alongside someone with electric guitar. I would still continue cello but i was wondering if it would be cost effective to pick up a 75$ bass and play around with it occasionally.
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Oh, that will be fun - converting from an instrument strung in 4ths from cello, which is strung in 5ths. Oh my! Good luck!
 
#55
Max Marsh said:
I have been playing classical cello for over 8 years and have wanted to try and pick up an electric bass. I have toyed around on it before with small riffs and am wondering if any cello players have found it easy to switch between the 2 instruments. Would it also be beneficial to tune the bass to an ADGC pattern to read bass clef or keep the bass as it is and learn frets? I have an amp in my house and I could play alongside someone with electric guitar. I would still continue cello but i was wondering if it would be cost effective to pick up a 75$ bass and play around with it occasionally.
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I started cello around 4th grade, and picked up electric bass the summer before 8th grade to play in the middle school jazz band. I bought a second hand Fender, and worked my way through my Dotzauer books using EADG tuning. Seriously, it took me a few weeks. And I continued to play bass in the jazz band while playing cello in a community orchestra, through high school.

My son plays cello, and was thinking about learning bass. His cello teacher encouraged it, saying that bass playing is a skill, meaning, a marketable skill. The fact that you can already read music gives you an advantage over anybody who started on electric bass, for certain genres that use written charts.

Of course it took me longer than a few weeks to become a real bassist. That's a lifelong pursuit. One problem is that I could never abide by frets, so I play only fretless today. That's a limitation for some genres.

If you play cello plus electric bass, it's only a matter of time... I see an upright bass in your future. ;)
 
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#56
I'm not a cellist, but if you're going to tune it alternately, I'd make sure that your lowest note is at least an E. That's kind of the minimum threshold for most bass music. You could start with low B and go up in 5ths and you cover about the standard range of a 5 string bass in a 4 string instrument.

What I can't comment on is wether having the same intervals as a cello but different notes would be easier or more difficult for you than learning the instrument in it's traditional EADG 4ths.
 
#57
You could get a short scale bass (30" vs standard 34") to make it easier if you find the frets a stretch. Definitely recommend EADG tuning.
Besides tablature, there is a fair amount of music in standard notation. There are also lots of "fake books" with basic chord structures for well known songs. More for jazz than for rock, but both exist. There are tons of sites offering tab and transcriptions. Just use the Google. Enjoy.
 
#58
Max Marsh said:
I've noticed that the frets are very large and I can barely get my fingers along the neck for one string (I tried money by Pink Floyd). Is the fret less spaced that far apart or are the note gaps more like a cello?
Click to expand...
To cope with that large fret spacing you often plant your thumb on the back of the neck and use it as a pivot, swinging your hand up or down the neck to reach notes. Sorry if you already knew this....
 
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#59
Welcome to talkbass!

Like fdeck, I also started on cello in 4th grade, and slowly started learning bass guitar and string bass starting in 9th grade. The transition isn't difficult, although it may seem so at first. You'll quickly get used to the strings being tuned in 4ths.

As BassUrges already mentioned, the scale length (distance from bridge to nut) is longer on a normal electric bass than on a cello. You don't necessarily have to play with one finger per fret in the lower positions. A lot of us use the "Simandl" fingerings in the lower positions, where fingers 1, 2, and 4 span just a single whole step. More shifts are required, but it spares you the strain of stretching your hand to reach intervals that are too far apart.

I probably didn't explain that very well. Maybe someone else will explain it better, or you can Google Simandl 1-2-4 fingering. Tuning in 5ths would only make fingering more difficult, so you probably will want to shelve that idea for now.

The biggest difference in technique will be that the pizzicato style you learned for cello isn't used very much on electric bass. Bass guitar pizzicato is usually like "rest strokes" and "free strokes" on guitar ... which you'll learn all about as time goes by. Or you might decide to use a pick, or play slap, which has a more percussive sound. It all depends on what sounds you want to learn to play first.

There are some great instructional videos and books available. Maybe someone will post some links. I'm working tonight, so I'll have to leave it at that for now.

What kind of music do you want to play on electric bass?
 
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#60
Max Marsh said:
I have been playing classical cello for over 8 years and have wanted to try and pick up an electric bass. I have toyed around on it before with small riffs and am wondering if any cello players have found it easy to switch between the 2 instruments. Would it also be beneficial to tune the bass to an ADGC pattern to read bass clef or keep the bass as it is and learn frets? I have an amp in my house and I could play alongside someone with electric guitar. I would still continue cello but i was wondering if it would be cost effective to pick up a 75$ bass and play around with it occasionally.
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I don't know how to play cello. But every fret is a semi-tone so intervals form fingering patterns on a fretted instrument. There are a variety of strings so it's very possible to tune the bass nearly anyway you want. Nylon wrapped strings are the lowest tension and most flexible strings and metal flatwound strings are the highest tension and least flexible strings. Round wounds are in the middle. The core also impacts the tension/flexibility of the string. Hex core is more tense/stiff than round core. I have one bass tuned ADGCF using La Bella 1954 strings. Rotosound Jazz 77 works for this too. But, my fav strings are D'Addario Chromes, for E and Eb standard which are fairly tense/stiff. Keep in mind that my ADGCF bass is tuned an octave lower than a cello.

Another alternative is a capo, although I would use it sparringly because I've heard that capos tend to increase fret ware.

Basses can also be had in a number of scale lengths which increases your chance of finding a comfortable bass.

But there is also technique to consider to make bass doable for you:


In my opinion, you're over thinking this. If you can afford the instrument, you can take advantage of it to expand your musical horizons. You can transpose what you play on the cello to bass. It's not a matter of should you get a bass, but which bass and strings would work for you.
 
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