Choosing which mode to use over a chord

[james condino]

While I have spent a LOT of time studying and analyzing modal theory across several different instruments, the best thing I can say is: Don't over think it. Your heart and your ears will tell you when it is right and when to play further for resolution.

Get yourself a copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue; listen, study, learn, live it. There is a lifetime of modal beauty in that. Get the Abersold play along tracks where you can jam along and roll off the bass or piano or the part that you need for practice. Timeless...

 

[Wasnex]

OP, Just because you are using modes does not necessarily mean you are playing modally. The way you are thinking about it, you are just thinking diatonically. Nothing wrong with using the study modes to get a deeper understanding of tonal music IMHO.

 

[nnnnnn]

The short answer is yes, you can. The chord tones in A minor (just the triad) are A, C, and E, and since all of the minor modes (dorian, aeolian, phrygian) contain those notes, they are all fair game. You may consider using the non-chord tones as passing tones in this case.

Just don't forget to pay attention to what the other instruments and vocals are doing. If the rest of the band is staying within the key of C over the whole progression - and noting that in a lot of songs the melody would include non-chord tones from the key - then having individual musicians deciding to apply different modes over individual chords could sound cool...or strange...or terrible.

 

[dreamadream99]

modes...I am looking to start using them in my playing mainly for fills and riffs

To play it safe, you can stick to the key of the song. That’s what you hear most other bassists do in Pop/Rock/Top 40/Country. Doing this has the added benefit of not challenging the listener by introducing unexpected notes.

But, if you are looking to break beyond the confines of key in your solos and fills, modes are one way to do that, but you needn’t be nearly so systematic about it. There’s really only one rule you need, to do this: If the chord is C, then every C, E, or G should be chord tones (natural). What you play in between the chord tones, on the way from one to another, is completely up to you. In other words, for passing notes between chord tones, any chromatic is fair game.

If you wanted to, you could use this scale:

C D# E F# G Ab Bb C

Or this one:

C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Were you born with ears?
Why not use them?

Think chromatically.

Any given note over any given change is valid if you like it, use it.

Good luck,
Dirk

 

[Whousedtoplay]

A few TB members have expressed an "interesting" opinion about the MODES as "the notes are the same".
Let's use the baby steps.


The OP's comment has provided us with the MOST TRIVIAL chord progression of C - Amin - Dmin - G - C.
Any beginner musician (even a bass player) would say, "All the notes are the SAME. It's just the C major scale. Don't worry about the modes".

Excellent.
If the notes are the SAME, could a bass player play the notes (only) F and B with the chord C?
It's from the C major scale.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Were you born with ears?
Why not use them?

Think chromatically.

Good luck,
Dirk

Beauty is in the eye(in the ear) of the beholder.
Anyway, that a typical advice at TB - think chromatically when the question is about learning MODES.

 

[Koshchei]

A few TB members have expressed an "interesting" opinion about the MODES as "the notes are the same".
Let's use the baby steps.


The OP's comment has provided us with the MOST TRIVIAL chord progression of C - Amin - Dmin - G - C.
Any beginner musician (even a bass player) would say, "All the notes are the SAME. It's just the C major scale. Don't worry about the modes".

Excellent.
If the notes are the SAME, could a bass player play the notes (only) F and B with the chord C?
It's from the C major scale.

That's an arrangement question. It depends what everyone else is playing, in what octave they're playing it, and what the musical context is. But yes, you could totally go for an implied F lydian tonality if it made musical sense.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

That's an arrangement question. It depends what everyone else is playing, in what octave they're playing it, and what the musical context is. But yes, you could totally go for an implied F lydian tonality if it made musical sense.

Now, we have conversation.
Maybe, some other TB members would express their opinion that could provide more information about the bass player who is playing a comping (not SOLOING) line of F and B with the chord C major?

 

[Mushroo]

A few TB members have expressed an "interesting" opinion about the MODES as "the notes are the same".
Let's use the baby steps.


The OP's comment has provided us with the MOST TRIVIAL chord progression of C - Amin - Dmin - G - C.
Any beginner musician (even a bass player) would say, "All the notes are the SAME. It's just the C major scale. Don't worry about the modes".

Excellent.
If the notes are the SAME, could a bass player play the notes (only) F and B with the chord C?
It's from the C major scale.

I understand your reservations about playing the notes F or B in the bass under a C Major chord. My question to you is this: How does thinking in "modes" and calling it "C Ionian" instead of "C Major" solve this problem?

And here's a crazy suggestion: Why not just play C Major Pentatonic for the C Major chord? (CDEGAC, no F or B)

 

[Whousedtoplay]

To be continued...

What is the REASON for a composer to move from a very stable and tonic chord C major to a different one, let's say Amin?

 

[Koshchei]

To be continued...

What is the REASON for a composer to move from a very stable and tonic chord C major to a different one, let's say Amin?

Exactly, and which A minor is it? Natural/melodic/harmonic?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I understand your reservations about playing the notes F or B in the bass under a C Major chord. My question to you is this: How does thinking in "modes" and calling it "C Ionian" instead of "C Major" solve this problem?

It's a good question.
We have two approaches -
HORIZONTAL - MODES
and
VERTICAL - chords/harmony.
(I know you've missed my comment about that AVOID note.)

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Exactly, and which A minor is it? Natural/melodic/harmonic?

You see, we have a subject/lesson about MODES, not about "What other notes could I play".

 

[SteveCS]

Exactly, and which A minor is it? Natural/melodic/harmonic?

I think he meant chord, not scale...

 

[ics1974]

Modes are a waste of time because they do not outline harmony. They are just a sequence of half and whole steps. You shouldn't be looking at a chord and asking yourself "what mode should I play" - you should be looking at a chord and asking yourself "what are the chord tones for this chord" and "how can I make these chord tones lead smoothly to the next chord".

This is exactly what I want to accomplish. I was hoping I could use the modes as a tool to know which non chord tones I can add in for fills. If I don't think scales then all I see is chord tones and chromatic notes

 

[Groove Master]

I am learning my modes and now I am looking to start using them in my playing mainly for fills and riffs.
My question is about choosing what mode to use over a given chord.
For example say I am in the key of C and the Am chord is playing. I – vi – IV – V (C – Am – F – G)
I definitely know that I can use A aeolian but could I also use A dorian or A phrygian over the Am chord? They all have the chord tones in Am but I am not sure if you can choose a mode from a different key like A dorian or A phrygian?

To go short, a chord is related to a key center or tonality because usually chords do have a function within a key. As for your example C going to Amin the obvious answer is A Aeolian BUT it also depends on where the A min is going after. If it goes to D min then you know that the Aeolian mode works but if the D chord is a D7 then you can play a A Dorian. So there is always two sides: where it is coming from and where it is going after.

Hope this helps.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

To be continued...
(It's about the MODES only).
In this thread we do not(!) try to study,
A PROPOSED THEORETICAL MODEL
FOR CHROMATIC FUNCTIONAL HARMONY:
THE OCTATONIC METAPHOR


I'd like to know WHY a composer/songwriter has decided to add another chord - Dmin - to a very TONIC C major one?
The NOTES are the same - the C major scale.

 

[ics1974]

Yes....and No.........First, the song would have to be written diatonically perfect to apply that logic but sometimes you want an accidental to create a certain tension even if it is.....Then there are plenty of songs not written diatonically accurate....... Personally, I let each chord dictate what I will apply to it by what it is constructed of and let diatonic modes as a moveable form orbit around each and every chord as a transparent non-committal map (ex. If a song goes DMaj7 to Cmaj7, I may apply Ionian to both chords or Lydian to both chords depending on the song itself)....but, most importantly, I will let my ears ( which include the mind's ear) to find the note choices for the phrases or figures I want to play.....often, they aren't diatonically correct.....substituting Dorian for Aeolian is a common one for me....However, I don't think of it as substituting Dorian for Aeolian ; I just think of it as "Oooh, I like that" - substituting Dorian for Aeolian is just what happens

ok cool I think this is what I was seeing if it's possible

 

[Whousedtoplay]

To go short, a chord is related to a key center or tonality because usually chords do have a function within a key. As for your example C going to Amin the obvious answer is A Aeolian BUT it also depends on where the A min is going after. If it goes to D min then you know that the Aeolian mode works but if the D chord is a D7 then you can play a A Dorian. So there is always two sides: where it is coming from and where it is going after.

Hope this helps.

You have a lots of theoretical knowledge and tons of PRACTICAL experience, but your answer would/could ONLY confuse a beginner musician who is trying to learn something about the MODES.
P.S. At TB, the majority of our friends, colleagues think about the MODES as LEARNING MILLPAD(?)