Chord chart question

[FeltTipPen]

I read it somewhere but now don't remember. I hope my question makes sense as I'm having a hard time trying to explain it. When I see a chord chart and see Bb or Eb, are there rules for when a notes are listed as such versus A# or D#? Are those first notes listed the only way they are notated?

Thank you!

 

[RustyAxe]

It would depend on the key signature of the song.

 

[La Faro]

They match their Key signature

 

[TomB]

I read it somewhere but now don't remember. I hope my question makes sense as I'm having a hard time trying to explain it. When I see a chord chart and see Bb or Eb, are there rules for when a notes are listed as such versus A# or D#? Are those first notes listed the only way they are notated?

Thank you!

I’d suggest that the nomenclature depends on the key you’re in and the chord structure. Let’s say you’re in E major and a particular chord contains an augmented 4th. While you might often think of that fretboard position as a Bb, in this case it would be called an A#, as it’s an accidental vs the A natural 4th degree of the E major scale. Is that getting at your question? This site is strong on theory so you should get some good answers.

 

[FeltTipPen]

I’d suggest that the nomenclature depends on the key you’re in and the chord structure. Let’s say you’re in E major and a particular chord contains an augmented 4th. While you might often think of that fretboard position as a Bb, in this case it would be called an A#, as it’s an accidental vs the A natural 4th degree of the E major scale. Is that getting at your question? This site is strong on theory so you should get some good answers.

Thank you TomB, your first sentence and the answers of the others makes sense. Sorry that I am far behind in the theory realm (planning on lessons later this year) so the rest of your answer is very new to me...some things I have heard but hasn't stuck yet, don't know augmented, diminished, etc.

I really appreciate the great help and really looking forward to learning more though!

 

[TomB]

My example was just to illustrate the naming of a particular note. The simplest answer is - it depends on the key and the chord involved. Beginning theory classes can be worth their weight in gold if you’re into it!

 

[Mark White]

are there rules for when a notes are listed as such versus A# or D#?

AIUI, there can be only one of each letter in a scale. You can't have a Gb and a G, so you'd have a A# and a G. Similarly if there was a D, you'd have a Eb rather than a D#. And you don't mix sharps and flats in a scale.

I'm no expert, so this could be wrong.

 

[Brad Maestas]

FeltTip, the basics of it are that this interchangeability is called enharmonics. That describes the fact that Db is equivalent to C#. As others have pointed out, those choices will typically be driven by the key signature(s) that the tune is in, assuming the arranger/notator has some music theory knowledge - and empathy for the instrument in question. I've seen some crazy charts!

 

[FeltTipPen]

Thanks guys, this is all so helpful so far and making more and more sense the more I read.

I've been playing by ear and just starting to dive into reading chord charts.

 

[Malcolm35]

Dirt simple sharp or flat answer.

Most songs in a major key and played by good ole boy band will use the sharps and most songs played with horns will use the flats.

 

[dreamadream99]

Bb or Eb, are there rules for when a notes are listed as such versus A# or D#

It would depend on the key signature of the song

This is the correct answer.

there can be only one of each letter in a scale

This is also true.

you don't mix sharps and flats in a scale.

This is true—except for some ethnic scales, and a few of the harmonic minor scales. But forget that for now. All the major and most minor keys you encounter will follow this rule.

 

[thetragichero]

go with Bb and Eb most of the time as they have WAY fewer accidentals. especially A# as one would write C* or what have you (C double sharp... which is the same note as D). don't be the guy who asks the keys player to play on A#

 

[groooooove]

there are things some people consider "musical grammar," and they do matter and there is a difference.

however, it's not the biggest deal in the world for someone relatively new to this to be told simply - they are different, they generally need to match the key signature, don't overthink it. (the differences are important, but should be taught at a much later date)

 

[BrotherMister]

Short answer is that it depends on the key and context. Each note should be accounted for.

Slightly less helpful, but probably more occurring, answer. More often than not you will often find things written for the ease of the performer to read rather than what it theoretically correct. Examples being the old classic E# or Fb. You’ll more than likely see chord charts written as F and E because they are easier to read.

Be aware of what is theoretically correct, because it is the best kind of correct, and what is slightly easier for the band to digest in real time.

 

[jamro217]

I always thought of charts as musical road maps. You can use them both to get safely to your destination. If you ever had a GPS that spat out random commands that made no sense until you passed your exit, you know how it works. You're in motion and have to make certain maneuvers in order not to crash or get lost. The easiest, clearest, most direct method is the best. Technically, Route 95 through Connecticut runs North and South. The compass proves it actually runs east and west. If you're giving driving directions to someone from Maine to Florida, you could either say: "Take 95 South", or complicate it by saying: "Take 95 South, then west for 60 miles, then South, then west again for 112 miles...". Musical charts are designed for players to quickly and accurately get to the end of the song safely. Complicating it by being theoretically correct for the sake of being correct doesn't make up for a ruined concert. The operation was a success but the patient died sort of thing.

In this case, Bb is easier to read at speed than A# could ever be. Always take the easiest route to achieve your goal without compromising the result.

 

[brianrost]

The short answer that noone gave yet is that you can only have sharps or only have flats. If you have a Bb, you can't have a D#, even if it's just an accidental not in the key signature. So, all sharps or all flats.

dreamadream99 mentioned there are unusual scales that can mix sharps and flats, I'd love to see an example of this.

 

[Mushroo]

The short answer that noone gave yet is that you can only have sharps or only have flats. If you have a Bb, you can't have a D#, even if it's just an accidental not in the key signature. So, all sharps or all flats.

dreamadream99 mentioned there are unusual scales that can mix sharps and flats, I'd love to see an example of this.

C# diminished 7 for example has both a C# and a Bb.

Or G minor can have both a Bb and an F# (in its harmonic and melodic forms).

 

[Krakmann]

Salud!

You received many good and correct answers, but I have to add: some people find it a bit strange calling Bb and Eb A# and D#, respectively. And some people raise an eyebrow with B#, Cb, E# or Fb.

But the fast answer is: 1) you use the "less accidented" enharmonic name for the key signature; 2) you don't repeat letters, so if G is already used, Ab is called that, and not G#; 3) if you use sharps, there are no flats, and viceversa.

 

[Lobster11]

Putting aside for the moment what is "correct," as others have pointed out, it's worth noting that many guitar players think strictly in terms of sharps, no matter what the key signature. For these folks, Bb is always annotated as A#, Eb is always annotated as D#, etc., regardless of the key. I'm okay with that if it helps them play the right chords at the right times.

 

[jthisdell]

I learned that you would refer to minors as flats and majors as sharps but in the real world, at least amongst players and charts I've experienced, I don't think that happens, especially as noted by @Lobster11 most guitarists refer to everything as sharps.