Chord extension recognition

[basslayer]

Hello fellow bassist. I have mostly been an ear player, but I can read as well. I have trouble distinguishing chords once there is more happening than a triad or 7th when improvising with other players. I know the answer to almost every music question is "practice", but I am not sure how to usefully practice this skill, short of not being invited back to play with people who use extensions because I keep stopping to check what's happening. I mostly play music that doesn't go past triads, but I may be soon and I would like to have a pathway to taking on that type of playing. I have done some ear training, but I can't find any to help with differentiating between anything past 7th chords. The question is, how can I improve my ability to differentiate chord extensions without wearing out my welcome at jams?

 

[Groove Master]

Study Harmony. It will get more clear. Also practice arpeggios.

 

[Bob_Ross]

It sounds to me (no pun intended) like OP needs to dive deep into Ear Training...specifically, the ability to recognize the quality of a chord.
This of course presumes that s/he can already recognize root motion.

If you can hear what's happening when the guitar or piano or [insert harmony-producing instrument(s) here] plays the triadic chord progression (for example) Emaj - Amaj - Bmaj it's a very small step to recognize a chord progression like Emaj7 - Amaj7 - B7 ...and recognizing that the quality of that B dominant 7th chord is a different quality than that of the E or A major seventh chords is 90% of the job.

Because once you can differentiate between major and minor and dominant chords -- and, by extension (again, no pun intended), major 7th, minor 7th, and dominant 7th chords -- everything else becomes a matter of very subtle detail...and, arguably, even easier to identify.

 

[g-dude]

Grab some sort of a keyboard.

Play CMaj15 (C E G B D F A C). Then, never play that again because it sounds horrible.

Fetch a brewski from the fridge and just play the various extensions as arpeggios and playing the full chord, and then try it dropping some notes from the chord, maybe do some inversions. Grab more beer and repeat until it sounds like it makes sense or you stop making sense.

 

[Malcolm35]

^^ Yes to the keyboard and knowing how to make scales, chords, etc. on the keyboard will transfer right into your bass.

Good luck.

 

[JRA]

...how can I improve my ability to differentiate chord extensions...

i've played other instruments in my life besides EB (although that's been my #1 for most of the trip), and the one instrument i keep close by, to use for all kinds of study --- including harmonies, extensions, chord and pitch relationships, etc., is the piano (or a keyboard). i've never played guitar but that would work, too.

Grab some sort of a keyboard. Play CMaj15 (C E G B D F A C). Then, never play that again because it sounds horrible.

Fetch a brewski from the fridge and just play the various extensions as arpeggios and playing the full chord, and then try it dropping some notes from the chord, maybe do some inversions. Grab more beer and repeat until it sounds like it makes sense or you stop making sense.

i see that there's a certain method to your.........method!

i would not be opposed to that kind of study regimen as i am already somewhat familiar!

 

[mike buzzetti]

Hello fellow bassist. I have mostly been an ear player, but I can read as well. I have trouble distinguishing chords once there is more happening than a triad or 7th when improvising with other players. I know the answer to almost every music question is "practice", but I am not sure how to usefully practice this skill, short of not being invited back to play with people who use extensions because I keep stopping to check what's happening. I mostly play music that doesn't go past triads, but I may be soon and I would like to have a pathway to taking on that type of playing. I have done some ear training, but I can't find any to help with differentiating between anything past 7th chords. The question is, how can I improve my ability to differentiate chord extensions without wearing out my welcome at jams?

ask what key it is in , play in that key done ! then learn gtr or keys if you want to know more. FYI a 2nd is a 9th 1 oct. down, 4th - 11th , learn 7ths .

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

+ 1 for piano.

 

[AGCurry]

Beyond whether the chord is major, minor, or diminished, the most important aspect of extensions is the inversion, e.g., "C/E" indicating that E should be played on the bottom. The second-most important is whether the 5th is flatted or augmented. Anything else - even suspensions like "Asus4" - are primarily to help chording instruments and often are there because there is an appogiatura or suspension in the melody. Almost always, sticking with the triad of a chord is going to suffice for the bassist.

BUT it never hurts to be able to identify the notes in any given chord.

 

[g-dude]

i've played other instruments in my life besides EB (although that's been my #1 for most of the trip), and the one instrument i keep close by, to use for all kinds of study --- including harmonies, extensions, chord and pitch relationships, etc., is the piano (or a keyboard). i've never played guitar but that would work, too.





i see that there's a certain method to your.........method!

i would not be opposed to that kind of study regimen as i am already somewhat familiar!

I discovered that reading things like Beowulf or the Canterbury Tales went well with beer, as did limbering up with some brewskis before statistics exams. No reason why it can’t work with music theory.

In all seriousness, everything in moderation. I think I had 1.5 beers last time I went out (first time in forever) and I’m clocking in at over 200lbs, so the tank still had room.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Beyond whether the chord is major, minor, or diminished, the most important aspect of extensions is the inversion, e.g., "C/E" indicating that E should be played on the bottom. The second-most important is whether the 5th is flatted or augmented. Anything else - even suspensions like "Asus4" - are primarily to help chording instruments and often are there because there is an appogiatura or suspension in the melody. Almost always, sticking with the triad of a chord is going to suffice for the bassist.

BUT it never hurts to be able to identify the notes in any given chord.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Have you ever listened to a single jazz song? Or soloed over changes? Playing straight triads over real changes will get you through about half a chorus before you are out of a job. In fact, playing a triad over a sus4 chord is the worst thing you can do.

To the OP, understanding chord function is a combination of ear training, intervallic study, and real-world application. An easy starting point is to do ear training with intervals, then with full chords. You can train your ear to recognize every interval relative to the root, and then train your ear to recognize that within a chord. EMaj7 and EMaj7b13 are only one note apart but have a totally different color and function.

Understanding extensions as a function not only gives you a lot more space to work with as a bassist or soloist, but can give you huge keys to understanding a song when you come across certain chords or combinations. For example, when you see B-7b5 to E7 you can put your money on the next chord being Am.

Lastly, remember that all those extensions exist even if no one is voicing them. Heck, all 12 notes exist in every song, it's just a matter of how you use them. But as far as chord theory goes, even if the chord instruments aren't shouting "Here is the quality of the 9, 11, and 13!" as a bassist you can color those in yourself.

 

[AGCurry]

That doesn't make any sense at all. Have you ever listened to a single jazz song? Or soloed over changes? Playing straight triads over real changes will get you through about half a chorus before you are out of a job. In fact, playing a triad over a sus4 chord is the worst thing you can do.

You are right ... my post was oversimplified, and yes, I have listened to and played jazz, and yes, I know not to play A over Fsus4. I should have simply stated that the bassist can trust that the left-to-right spelling of a chord coincides with a "priority" from greater to lesser.

For example, when you see B-7b5 to E7 you can put your money on the next chord being Am.

Yes, that F ("b5") IS a tasty note into the E7 chord, and it clues us to the minor quality of the next chord; but, knowing that the B is minor is to my mind more important than seeing the b5 extension. If I have an ear, I will already know that I can lead into the dominant chord with an F.

 

[Papageno]

You are right ... my post was oversimplified, and yes, I have listened to and played jazz, and yes, I know not to play A over Fsus4. I should have simply stated that the bassist can trust that the left-to-right spelling of a chord coincides with a "priority" from greater to lesser.



Yes, that F ("b5") IS a tasty note into the E7 chord, and it clues us to the minor quality of the next chord; but, knowing that the B is minor is to my mind more important than seeing the b5 extension. If I have an ear, I will already know that I can lead into the dominant chord with an F.

In a half-diminished chord like Bm7b5, the b5 is not an extension. It is a very essential component of the chord, needed to outline clearly the quality of the chord. In a half-diminished chord, the b5 is actually more important than the b3. If you play Root, b5, b7, no one doubts you are playing a half-diminished chord; the b3 is implicit.

This is unlike major, minor or unaltered dominants, in which the perfect 5ths is kind of neutral can be omitted without changing the quality of the chord. An omitted 5th implies a perfect 5th.

 

[dreamadream99]

You either need a monster ear to instantaneously discern all the extensions and alterations, or you need to know enough music theory to be able to correctly spell any chord.

HINT: The best musicians can do both.

 

[Malcolm35]

.......;. Almost always, sticking with the triad of a chord is going to suffice for the bassist. BUT it never hurts to be able to identify the notes in any given chord.

We do tend on making it complicated when simple gets the job done.

 

[Bob_Ross]

If you play Root, b5, b7, no one doubts you are playing a half-diminished chord; the b3 is implicit.

Absent any other context, if you play Root, b5, b7 there's just as good a chance you're implying a whole-tone environment. It'd only be within that minor II-V progression that you would be able to suggest a half-diminished chord without playing the b3.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Absent any other context, if you play Root, b5, b7 there's just as good a chance you're implying a whole-tone environment.

(Emphasis added.) Very true.

It'd only be within that minor II-V progression that you would be able to suggest a half-diminished chord without playing the b3.

(Emphasis restored.) Well, there and in a couple other cases.
- The half-diminished chord, as the viiø in a major key, works as a dominant chord, resolving directly to the tonic a half-step above, especially in classical music, as an alternative to the diminished seventh chord;
- it is also not uncommon as a passing chord between the Imaj7 and the ii, and
- between the IVmaj7 and the V (or the second inversion of the I).
In all the above cases, it certainly can be analysed as a rootless dominant 9th chord (respectively: a V9, a V9/ii and a V9/V), but it will more often than not be played rootless by everyone.
- Finally, at times you'll bump into the third of the above sequences of chords, but in reverse order (IOW, the half-diminished used as a passing chord between the V, or the I in second inversion, and the IV: think the last chord in the verse, pre-chorus, in "God Only Knows").

In all of these scenarios (except maybe for the last), a root-flat five-minor seventh arpeggio - with no explicit third - would be correctly parsed as an outline of the half-diminished chord, precisely because of the immediate (preceding) context.
...Which is, my nitpicking notwithstanding, the main takeaway from your post, especially valid for the OP:

@basslayer - I'm sure ear-training online tools exist for chord recognition. I'm a bit behind in this respect, myself. However, chord syntax, as pointed out in this exchange and in other posts above, gives you a lot of mileage, and is arguably more important: one needs to expect the changes, and to know where they they're likely to lead to. In order to do that, you need to learn a lot of standards, and to study harmony, so that you learn to identify and conceptualise the recurring patterns in those standards: e.g. this is the two in a cadence, this is a secondary dominant (V) of vi, and so forth.
Once you get started, you'll be forgiven for occasionally failing to follow the exact voicing of a dominant chord as chosen by the original arranger or the main comping instrumentalist in the jam, in a ne'ertofore seen piece; and you'll be ready to dip your toes into less predictable waters (pieces with lots of tonicizations, i.e. quick, temporary modulations, and overall unexpected changes). You can further your ear-training in the meantime - the two things are by no means mutually exclusive.

 

[Lorin Cohen]

Hello fellow bassist. I have mostly been an ear player, but I can read as well. I have trouble distinguishing chords once there is more happening than a triad or 7th when improvising with other players. I know the answer to almost every music question is "practice", but I am not sure how to usefully practice this skill, short of not being invited back to play with people who use extensions because I keep stopping to check what's happening. I mostly play music that doesn't go past triads, but I may be soon and I would like to have a pathway to taking on that type of playing. I have done some ear training, but I can't find any to help with differentiating between anything past 7th chords. The question is, how can I improve my ability to differentiate chord extensions without wearing out my welcome at jams?

Hey there basslayer,

This is a wonderful awareness you're having, and you should definitely start exploring the extensions of chords.

As bassists, our dedication to the root can all too often limit our harmonic awareness, leaving us with a limited musical palette, and ultimately as less well-rounded musicians.

I call extensions the "Money Notes", because they give us the real color of a chord.

If I can offer a simple exercise here:

1. Let's focus on understanding, singing, and playing the 7th, 9th and 11th of an E-11 chord
2. The 7th, 9th and 11th of an E-11 chord are: D, F#, A. What are those three notes? A Dmajor triad
3. Play an open E string on the bass, and while it's ringing, play a D major triad (2nd finger on D on the 12th fret)
4. Now we're leaving out a very important note here, the 3rd (G), but at this point you should be able to hear how that triad sounds over the bass note, no?
5. Now sing that D major triad.
6. Play the D Major triad again
7. Repeat steps 5 & 6 until this feels comfortable.
8. Try improvising a bit with this sound....create a groove or a simple melody

Next you'd take this same formula and process into all keys, but the idea is:

1. We're just focusing on one chord type at a time
2. We're remembering that to get the sound of the 9th and 11th on any minor chord, we simply play/sing a major triad build from the 7th degree of the chord. There will be similar triadic formulas for all the other chord types.

How does this process feel to you?

 

[basslayer]

Hey there basslayer,

This is a wonderful awareness you're having, and you should definitely start exploring the extensions of chords.

As bassists, our dedication to the root can all too often limit our harmonic awareness, leaving us with a limited musical palette, and ultimately as less well-rounded musicians.

I call extensions the "Money Notes", because they give us the real color of a chord.

If I can offer a simple exercise here:

1. Let's focus on understanding, singing, and playing the 7th, 9th and 11th of an E-11 chord
2. The 7th, 9th and 11th of an E-11 chord are: D, F#, A. What are those three notes? A Dmajor triad
3. Play an open E string on the bass, and while it's ringing, play a D major triad (2nd finger on D on the 12th fret)
4. Now we're leaving out a very important note here, the 3rd (G), but at this point you should be able to hear how that triad sounds over the bass note, no?
5. Now sing that D major triad.
6. Play the D Major triad again
7. Repeat steps 5 & 6 until this feels comfortable.
8. Try improvising a bit with this sound....create a groove or a simple melody

Next you'd take this same formula and process into all keys, but the idea is:

1. We're just focusing on one chord type at a time
2. We're remembering that to get the sound of the 9th and 11th on any minor chord, we simply play/sing a major triad build from the 7th degree of the chord. There will be similar triadic formulas for all the other chord types.

How does this process feel to you?

I have been using apps for eat training. I will try this when I get home.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I have been using apps for eat training. I will try this when I get home.

Let's take a practical look at those 11th chords based on Lorin Cohen's post.
The following beautiful track has a lot of 11th chords.




While the bass is playing a simple chord progression - I - vi (what could be more Pop-ish), the 11th chords are creating an aural "confusion."

Eb11(omit 3) - as I - the notes (ascending): Eb - Ab - Bb - Db - F = 2 measures/bars.
Cmin11 - as vi - the notes (ascending): C - G - Bb - Eb - F = 2 measures/bars.

That Eb11 and Cmin11 chord progression x 3 (Intro, plus twice with the Melody.)

Fmin9(maj7) - F(bass) (ascend.) G-Ab-C-E = 2 measures.

Ebmaj9 = 2 measures.

Abmaj9(13) or Abmaj6/9 = 2 measures.

Fmin7b5/B as (ascending) F - Ab - Cb(B) - Eb with B natural in the bass.

Back to Eb11.

Now. The bass line is very simple: just (primarily) Roots, 5th's, and the octaves of the roots.
Learn the guitar melody and soloing, and try to play it on the bass (in a higher register.)

P.S. You could ask Don Kasper (Don is a true Pro) to write down the harmony/chords, and you could take that chord sheet to any jam, tell the your musicians, "It's swing, Tempo 60 BPM. Let's go!"

The track has lots of extensions, but you've learned this track, and you'll be enjoying playing it while other musicians would try to figure out lots of nuances.