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Chorus vs. Flanger, and what's good?
- Thread starter SplinteredSkull
- Start date
I'm disappointed to find out that the Bass Boost Chorus doesn't come with a power supply. So will have to drop even more cash for one if I want to go the Tech 21 route.
but still, it sounds like an excellent pedal. I gotta make up my mind soon haha
but still, it sounds like an excellent pedal. I gotta make up my mind soon haha
...and, whether or not the love/hate is based upon a digital or analog version of the pedal. I have both. My 1995 analog pedal is on my larger board (used for full band gigs), and there is a subtle goosing of the low end, when it is engaged. My 2010 digital version does not have this slight bass boost, and is on my small board (used for acoustic gigs).
I just use a $2 daisy chain cable and use another power supply I have for my envelope filter. Not a big deal for me.
In any case, I have tried likely all of the usual suspects when it comes to Chorus (Boss, EHX, MXR, Digitech, etc.) and the Tech 21 blows them away IMO. Lots of love from others on this pedal too. It really is that good (to me).
Having said that, I don't have the time to get into weird, boutique, hand painted, limited pedals, but I am positive there are a few boutique pedals that will sound even better than the Tech 21.... the issue is finding them without buying a bunch of hit or miss pedals sight unseen, having to resell them if you dont like them as the guy making them in his/her kitchen doesn't take returns, etc.
This forum is an amazing wealth of info IME, but most of us are excitable, GAS driven fanboys.... What we LOVE today will very likely be sold to fund something else in the very near future.
I don't like it when I have to pay for an included low output wall wart, it's just one more power supply I won't be using. I would think a majority of people buying more expensive pedals will already have, or will soon have to buy a better power supply anyway, so it's a waste of money and resources to always include a cheap one.
(Sorry for the caps) CHECK OUT MXR BASS CHORUS DELUXE. It's a CHORUS and a FLANGER, and the x-over button takes the chorus or flanger out of the lower notes, so the higher notes are accented. i've seen guitar pedals that is like the mxr bass chorus deluxe, but i dont recall any other bass fx pedal that can do both. look it up, check it out. also, with flanger, or chorus, set the dials low to give a pinch of to effect, that will give you a cool sound for solos. not too distracted, but present, to give flavor. thanks for reading. also, the pedal has a y cable switch so you can split the signal to two different amps.
I prefer phaser to those two
Tried flanger and it's cool and all, but I prefer phaser.
I have to agree. I prefer a phaser to both chorus and flanger. I think it feels a bit more subtle and organic. I use MXR Phase 90 clones for my preferred sound. An absolute must on some Pink Floyd songs.
Oh. Well I stand corrected then. I don't have any power supplies though. If I get the Tech 21 I'll probably get the power supply they make. Won't be cheap, but at least I know it would be designed to work with their products.
I'm kind of shocked that this thread has gone on for 3 pages and nobody has pointed out that a Chorus and a Flanger are the exact same effect process, only with different delay time ranges. If you increase the delay time on a Flanger to the point where it stops comb filtering, you have a Chorus. Or if you shorten the delay time on a Chorus to where you start to hear comb filtering, you have a Flanger. It's just different delay intervals that produce the different effects. That's really the only technical difference.
Some companies have taken advantage of this and used the same circuitry to do both effects in the same box, but for some reason it never really caught on.
The reason why we hear Chorus and Flanger as distinctly different effects is because, at very short delay times associated with flangers, the time-shifted signal starts interacting with the original signal to cancel out certain frequencies. This is called "comb filtering". On a frequency plot it looks like a row of filter notches resembling a hair comb. When you modulate the delay time, these filter notches start shifting up and down in frequency, creating a whooshing effect we call "flanging". Originally, this was done in the studio by running the same audio on two different synced tape reels. The engineer would push their finger on the "flange" of one of the tape reels in order to delay it slightly with respect to the other reel, hence the name.
A Chorus, on the other hand, sounds more "fluttery" because there is no comb filtering and you actually start to hear the pitch warbling. It's kind of hard to describe. The idea is that it's supposed to sound like multiple instruments playing at the same time, slightly out of tune and slightly out of sync, hence the term "chorus", but it doesn't really achieve a true choral effect you get with multiple musicians.
A phaser is actually a very similar effect to flanging, and it was originally designed to emulate the flanging effect electronically without using two tape machines (this was before delay circuitry was affordable). Phasing also produces notches through frequency canceling, but it does it differently than flanging. Instead of time-delaying the audio signal, a phaser splits the signal into two paths and then phase shifts one of the signals around a certain frequency using simple phase shifting circuitry called an "all-pass filter" (you can almost think of this as a very short time delay that is frequency dependent). Every 2 stages of a phaser produce one filter notch, and if you string 4 or more stages together, you start to get multiple spaced notches that somewhat resemble a comb filter. However, the resulting notches aren't spaced at the same frequency intervals as a comb filter, so no matter how many stages you have, it's not quite the same as a flanger. The result is that a phaser sounds smoother and more liquid than a flanger, but they are both just different ways of achieving modulated notch filtering.
I hope that helps.
Some companies have taken advantage of this and used the same circuitry to do both effects in the same box, but for some reason it never really caught on.
The reason why we hear Chorus and Flanger as distinctly different effects is because, at very short delay times associated with flangers, the time-shifted signal starts interacting with the original signal to cancel out certain frequencies. This is called "comb filtering". On a frequency plot it looks like a row of filter notches resembling a hair comb. When you modulate the delay time, these filter notches start shifting up and down in frequency, creating a whooshing effect we call "flanging". Originally, this was done in the studio by running the same audio on two different synced tape reels. The engineer would push their finger on the "flange" of one of the tape reels in order to delay it slightly with respect to the other reel, hence the name.
A Chorus, on the other hand, sounds more "fluttery" because there is no comb filtering and you actually start to hear the pitch warbling. It's kind of hard to describe. The idea is that it's supposed to sound like multiple instruments playing at the same time, slightly out of tune and slightly out of sync, hence the term "chorus", but it doesn't really achieve a true choral effect you get with multiple musicians.
A phaser is actually a very similar effect to flanging, and it was originally designed to emulate the flanging effect electronically without using two tape machines (this was before delay circuitry was affordable). Phasing also produces notches through frequency canceling, but it does it differently than flanging. Instead of time-delaying the audio signal, a phaser splits the signal into two paths and then phase shifts one of the signals around a certain frequency using simple phase shifting circuitry called an "all-pass filter" (you can almost think of this as a very short time delay that is frequency dependent). Every 2 stages of a phaser produce one filter notch, and if you string 4 or more stages together, you start to get multiple spaced notches that somewhat resemble a comb filter. However, the resulting notches aren't spaced at the same frequency intervals as a comb filter, so no matter how many stages you have, it's not quite the same as a flanger. The result is that a phaser sounds smoother and more liquid than a flanger, but they are both just different ways of achieving modulated notch filtering.
I hope that helps.
I don't quite see what in my post offended you. Just stating my opinion.
If you don't have a power supply by all means buy from Tech21. However, and here I go "correcting" you again
if you do as much research into power supplies as you have done into chorus pedals you may find there are better options, especially if you in the future want to power a second or third pedal. Maybe they make several power supplies, but the DC2 that is mentioned for the chorus pedal only outputs 100mA and the pedal manual says 100mA minimum.I'll get out of your hair now.
No offense was taken, none at all, I just assumed pedals came with appropriate power supplies, but I am learning this is not the case.
Well more research shall be conducted then!
Well more research shall be conducted then!
I thought a chorus mixed a pitch-shifted (detuned) signal with a normal signal, and a flanger mixed a variable (but short) time delay signal with the normal signal.
Is chorus actually a time-delay effect?
I could see flanger-reverb-echo all being related time delay effects but not so sure about chorus.
bongomania
Commercial User
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
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- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
You will note on our Orbital Modulator that the Flanger and Chorus effects section are one and distinct and separate from the Phasers and Resonators (Will Cady's favorite).
We debated whether to make the Chorus section separate from the Flanger section. In the end the engineering won out over the marketing!
Simply, a Flanger with a shorter delay has phase cancellation going on which causes the ear to hear a more hollow sound. When the delay gets long enough, it starts to sound like another "voice". The point at which the ear hears this second voice is when a Flanger becomes a Chorus.
With proper controls to retain low end, time-based modulation effects can all sound great with bass.
We debated whether to make the Chorus section separate from the Flanger section. In the end the engineering won out over the marketing!
Simply, a Flanger with a shorter delay has phase cancellation going on which causes the ear to hear a more hollow sound. When the delay gets long enough, it starts to sound like another "voice". The point at which the ear hears this second voice is when a Flanger becomes a Chorus.
With proper controls to retain low end, time-based modulation effects can all sound great with bass.
Do you know what year they went digital/what models I should go for that are analog? Its also my understanding that the Boss BF-2 is preferred over the newer BF-3
Yes, the detuning in a chorus effect is accomplished by modulating the clock speed of a delay line. Have you ever twiddled the speed knob on an analog delay pedal while playing and noticed the pitch shift? Same idea.
Chorus, Flanger, and Echo (with modulation) are all really the same effect with different delay ranges:
-35 milliseconds or more create discrete echoes
-5 to 25 milliseconds creates a chorus effect
-0 to 5 milliseconds creates flanging
Note that these ranges are a rough guide, not a hard and fast rule.
Ive got the Boss Bass Chorus. I wouldnt say its the best chorus pedal, but I do like it. Im sure there is something better out there.
