Church/Bar Band....Thoughts?

[MikeBass]

We (me, guitarist) have been in our church band for 6 years. We also have our own band in which we play out in bars and clubs alot.
We get some looks like this :scowl: from some people at church, but wait, get this, they see us out beacuse they're in THE SAME BAR!!

Just feeling out if they're are any more bands that do this.

P.S. my soul is fine and I'm not looking for you to 'get me right', I was just wondering if we were alone.

Place thoughts below

Ya know, just really read your post again.....if they give you that look, ask them who's job is it to judge?
Then buy them a beer!

 

[mikezimmerman]

Getting home from a bar gig at 3:30 Sunday morning and having to be at church by 7:00, I'm sure I've not looked or smelled my best. No one at church has ever said anything negative about it.

Been there, done that on more than a few occasions! The drummer I used to play with in church would always check with me beforehand, and would show of with a big can of Monster (energy drink) if I was going to be playing with him the morning after a gig.

Several of the musicians from the church currently play in or have played in bar bands in the past, and many of the others have been out to see me in this or previous bands so I don't think anyone feels like it's a big deal. Of course, these are Lutherans--maybe it'd be a different story of I were playing in a Baptist church!

 

[RickeyC]

We had some guys in thre church band do this once.. I say once becaue they were kindly asked to not play on stage anymore at church. They are still members of the church, just not of the worship team.

 

[SBassman]

Great thread.

 

[Syco_bass]

O.K. I'm going to try not to get all churchy and philosophical on you but this topic gets me fired up. I have been one of two bassists on our worship team for the past 7 years. I have been on our church’s leadership team/board of directors for the past 6 years and I was asked to become the Executive Director of the same church last year. I also play in a Country/Rock band that plays in bars just about every Friday and Saturday night. It saddens me when I hear that musicians are “judged” or asked to leave the praise team if and when they play in bars. I believe Your "God given" talent is to be shared with all. Yes, ALL, not just the ppl in your church. If Jesus would have taken that approach, only the Prophecies would have heard his message. Not only did Jesus turn water into wine, but Monks have been brewing beer and making wine for centuries. They make it, they sell it, they drink it and they enjoy it. It is a large part of their way of life.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with it. However there is always the line that shouldn't be crossed. Life is to be enjoyed in moderation and with a love in your heart. “Love thy neighbor as you love yourself", he said. Who is your neighbor? I ask. Is it only “Christian” people "like you"? I don’t think so. I believe He meant everyone. People in bars included.

Even our Pastor has been known to come out to a gig or two. He has a great time. His favorite beers are Kilt lifter and Guinness and he makes no bones about it. We have an "Art night" once per quarter at our church where we serve beer and wine, cheese and crackers and invite some local artists, poets and musicians to come and share their talents. We also release a new CD of our own originals on those nights. It's a blast. Everyone has a good time and sometimes, we talk about the Gospel. We don’t think it is required, but sometimes it is appropriate to include it in the discussion. I just don't get the folks that think life is to be lived in a bubble, void of outside influences. IMHO, life is to be LIVED!!! Live life to its fullest and love everyone!!!

Our church's motto is. "LOVE, PERIOD" Actually we don’t even call ourselves a “church”. We call ourselves a spiritual community.
So, I think we should all get out there and play our butts off for anyone who will listen. I believe that is what Jesus would like us to do. Then again, I’ve never actually spoken to Him, so what the heck do I know. I can only live my life in the “spirit” of scripture written in the Bible which I do not take literally.

Peace.

 

[Jhengsman]

I don't get it. Do churches discourage drinking or going to bars? Other than weddings, I haven't been to a church service, so I just just don't know the connection. And, after those weddings, I've seen lots of the 'religious' people get seriously sloshed at the reception. Heck, I've seen people drink in church.

In general churches which feature modern praise and worship music, the types most likely to have trap drummers and bass players, electric guitars with pedal boards are also more likely to see any drinking as sinful. However it is not even a majority of those.

Meanwhile churches where the elders will go have a whiskey with you are more likely to believe that chants, pipe organs, harps etc should be the only instrumentation used during a Saturday/Sunday service. Meaning "instrumentation only suitable for secular and not sacred music" I believe would be banned if their fundamentalist had it their way and the churches did not have to adapt because there are many guitarist and few harpist or pipe organ players in the communities they serve..

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Wasnt Jesus the one who hung out with tax collectors, whores, etc?

I do both No one where I play think this of me. They actually come see me at the clubs

Rob

 

[Jeb]

Interesting thread. Syco..., I enjoyed your post and I have a question...

...Actually we don’t even call ourselves a “church”. We call ourselves a spiritual community. ...

What is a "spiritual community" (as would be different from a church)? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but genuinely curious.

 

[BritPicker]

Well I play in church, and in a rock band in pubs and clubs. I've never had anyone in church say that was bad. Quite the opposite in fact, most people are interested and some even come along to our gigs.

Maybe it's different in America. My experience is the UK and Australia. People seem far less hung-up on where you hang out than on the way you behave.

The good thing about doing gigs is that I've had lots of conversations with people about my faith and what it means. Many folks out there in pubs and clubs are searching for something better, and I hope that's a positive thing for them, we're all on a journey aren't we?

It must be a small minority that are so anti.

I wouldn't do a late night gig plus drinking and partying and then rock up to church the worse for wear tho. That's kind of disrespectful I think.

 

[MikeBass]

We had some guys in thre church band do this once.. I say once becaue they were kindly asked to not play on stage anymore at church. They are still members of the church, just not of the worship team.

That's flat out sad.

Those are the same people who will raise their hands in church, and the same who will raise their hands to flip you off if you cut them off at the intersection........

Interesting lyrics:
Casting Crowns "Stained Glass Masquerade":

CASTING CROWNS - STAINED GLASS MASQUERADE LYRICS

 

[Munjibunga]

Well I play in church, and in a rock band in pubs and clubs. I've never had anyone in church say that was bad. Quite the opposite in fact, most people are interested and some even come along to our gigs.

Maybe it's different in America. My experience is the UK and Australia. People seem far less hung-up on where you hang out than on the way you behave.

The good thing about doing gigs is that I've had lots of conversations with people about my faith and what it means. Many folks out there in pubs and clubs are searching for something better, and I hope that's a positive thing for them, we're all on a journey aren't we?

It must be a small minority that are so anti.

I wouldn't do a late night gig plus drinking and partying and then rock up to church the worse for wear tho. That's kind of disrespectful I think.

You really can't generalize about religion in America. Compare and contrast posts #23 and #25. The first is from Arkansas, the heart of the "Bible Belt." Those folks take their religion very seriously. I was down there once for my father-in-law's family reunion, and I was trying to talk one of the cousins (a preacher) and his wife into converting to Buddhism. That went over well (nyuk nyuk), but they still said they'd like to have me playing bass in their praise band, Buddhism and all.

Now Arizona, maybe not so gung ho.

 

[MNAirHead]

In general churches which feature modern praise and worship music, the types most likely to have trap drummers and bass players, electric guitars with pedal boards are also more likely to see any drinking as sinful. However it is not even a majority of those.

Meanwhile churches where the elders will go have a whiskey with you are more likely to believe that chants, pipe organs, harps etc should be the only instrumentation used during a Saturday/Sunday service. Meaning "instrumentation only suitable for secular and not sacred music" I believe would be banned if their fundamentalist had it their way and the churches did not have to adapt because there are many guitarist and few harpist or pipe organ players in the communities they serve..

Respectfully... I'm on the emergency call list for about 50 churches in the region... I'm puzzled where the opinion comes from.

----

I'm the Director at a Methodist church (the official doctrine condemns booze)...

My opinion is to be real and honest --- just make sure the blatant truth is known up front.

Heck our figure head worship leader has a solo bar gig --- (he's offically baptist)... I have a group that the core is the worship team from an EFree worship team.

The truth is more that once you decide to work together, it's prudent to let the reality be known up front --- don't let them figure it out or sleuth it out.

Tim

 

[HeadyVan Halen]

It's interesting to me how the Blues are still frowned upon, at least in the Southern Baptist Church I play in.
Even though Blues and Southern Black Gospel share 99.9% of the same DNA.
I play a BB King lick and get told "you know were in church right..?" but I'll play the chords to lil' Wayne's "Like a Cop Car (which are actually good)" and the people love it...interesting.

 

[dbhokie]

You really can't generalize about religion in America. Compare and contrast posts #23 and #25. The first is from Arkansas, the heart of the "Bible Belt." Those folks take their religion very seriously. I was down there once for my father-in-law's family reunion, and I was trying to talk one of the cousins (a preacher) and his wife into converting to Buddhism. That went over well (nyuk nyuk), but they still said they'd like to have me playing bass in their praise band, Buddhism and all.

Now Arizona, maybe not so gung ho.

A lot of it here has to do with location.

In the Bible Belt, especially the buckle where I have lived most of my life, the majority of churches consider alcohol sinful (this pretty much kicked off during prohibition, when pastor Grape Juice decided to campaign against alcohol and wine in communion), strangely he had also "perfected" a new recipe of grape juice (you know him as Welch). After these crusades mainly by people such as Welch and "church women" who were fed up with their men being at taverns and pubs, many churches took very firm line stances against alcohol, going so far as to re-interpret the Bible and suggest that it is literal with everything except for wine. In which case, since they didn't have a word for grape juice (they did) when Jesus made wine, he actually made grape juice. They never stored wine, they stored the grapes in a non-fermented jelly solution then added water to it.

Ever since prohibition, virtually every independent and Southern Baptist Church have been completely against alcohol, to the point where consumption is sinful.

Presbyterians, Methodist, Lutheran, and Catholic are generally accepting of it. Most of the other denominations stand firm against it.

Religious people are easy to motivate to go on a crusade, if you can appeal to the emotional side of their moral compass. Just like marijuana and Reefer Madness. By showing something can be un-ethical, it is just blankly labeled as unethical.

In my opinion the Bible is about liberty through Christ. It is much easier to live a life of constraint with rules, however.

 

[Skeevenmac]

I once played in a bar that a church was protesting, and I ended up playing at the church the next morning... and here's the kicker... I'm not even a christian. I do it partly for the music and partly for the money.

 

[Saxn]

Great thread. I have found this to be a VERY common problem around here. I live in central Georgia - in a small town of around 20,000 or so, and this sort of thing is the order of the day. I think what it boils down to is something that a fantastic lady at one of the congregations talked to me about once... there are the "saints" - who practice the word of God as Jesus did - and then there are the "church folks" whose primary duty is seemingly to to pass judgement and instigate unrest and discontent in the church.

I have yet to be able to walk into a church venue that I play (At one point I played for three separate services) and get the musicians there to play ANYWHERE outside of church because the "church folks" get all bent out of shape and they fear losing their positions in the band (I have noticed in black churches it is not called a 'praise team'). One bass player told me the exact same story as the OP when I approached him about playing jazz/blues in a club setting, and that is truly sad... it turns out that there is a veritable GOLD MINE of talented players in and around this little town - all playing exclusively in the churches! All the while there is mad work to be had in the three larger towns around us - just waiting to be taken - and I am unable to put a group together because of the hypocrisy of the church folks.

Funny thing is that *I* have played all manner of outside gigs (when I can get them as a solo player) because I REFUSE to be held hostage by church politics, misguided piousness, and un-Christian hypocrisy... and I have not had the slightest problem other than a few disgruntled looks and ONE comment from a member of the church. I have never lost a playing position, so I guess when it gets down to brass tacks as long as the people are moving the church folks are happy... just like in a CLUB!

Sorry for the rant-ishness of the post, but again, great thread and I wish OP the best of luck in his future playing in both venues.

 

[jaywa]

Agreed and Amen to what Syco said, and thank you for putting it so eloquently. God gave me the ability to play bass well, and he has also connected me with many opportunities to do so... both within and outside traditional church settings. I believe it is my duty to take advantage of every opportunity I'm presented so long as it doesn't negatively impact my family life, day job, etc.

For the past 11 years I have played in church bands with people who at one time played (or are still playing) in bar bands... and I have also played with people who only play in church. And with fewer than a handful of exceptions, the players from the bar scene are invariably better on their instruments and play better in a a band context (balancing volume, leaving space, dynamics, etc... just general musical sensitivity). They also come to rehearsals better prepared, they conduct themselves more professionally on and off the stage, and they're just generally more fun to be with and easier to work with than the "church only" folks. I find it surprising and a bit sad that church settings (which centuries ago set the standard of excellence for the "secular" world in the arts) are now where so much musical mediocrity and downright hack-ery is on display... along with no small degree of petty in-fighting and ego tripping. This applies to sound techs too.

Honestly, one of the biggest reasons I keep my bar band involvement going along with my church commitment (besides the fact my bar band pays well), is that the bar band is where I keep my skills sharp simply because of the better caliber of players and the higher level or professionalism overall. It also keeps me well grounded to interact with real people on a regular basis and a lot more of them seem to be hanging out at bars (and in bar bands) than in churches these days.

 

[MikeBass]

A lot of it here has to do with location.

In the Bible Belt, especially the buckle where I have lived most of my life, the majority of churches consider alcohol sinful (this pretty much kicked off during prohibition, when pastor Grape Juice decided to campaign against alcohol and wine in communion), strangely he had also "perfected" a new recipe of grape juice (you know him as Welch). After these crusades mainly by people such as Welch and "church women" who were fed up with their men being at taverns and pubs, many churches took very firm line stances against alcohol, going so far as to re-interpret the Bible and suggest that it is literal with everything except for wine. In which case, since they didn't have a word for grape juice (they did) when Jesus made wine, he actually made grape juice. They never stored wine, they stored the grapes in a non-fermented jelly solution then added water to it.

Ever since prohibition, virtually every independent and Southern Baptist Church have been completely against alcohol, to the point where consumption is sinful.

Presbyterians, Methodist, Lutheran, and Catholic are generally accepting of it. Most of the other denominations stand firm against it.

Religious people are easy to motivate to go on a crusade, if you can appeal to the emotional side of their moral compass. Just like marijuana and Reefer Madness. By showing something can be un-ethical, it is just blankly labeled as unethical.

In my opinion the Bible is about liberty through Christ. It is much easier to live a life of constraint with rules, however.

Ahh!!!
The classic "lets re-interpret the Bible so it fits OUR agenda".....

I don't get it. Really I don't.
If you are a professional musician, your only income is from playing, and you are an avid Christian, you CAN'T play on the worship/praise team because somewhere some place someone twisted the Word and decided that it's a sin to play in a club.

Should a brick layer not take a job because the bricks he's placing are going to be a bar when he's done?
A Painter?
A bartender maybe?
Waitress?????

I would like to know what some of the church folk would say to the single mom who is a waitress/bartender at a club.

 

[iamoldschool]

Been playing in both for over 5 years (check my title). Same holds true for me as others have said, often have folks from church come to the bars to hear us play, and vice-versa. I attend a Methodist church where alcohol is tolerated a little more than other denominations. In fact, the owner of my favorite liquor store attends and gives a 10% discount to church members; seriously. If my church ever gave me an ultimatum as described in a post above, it would be an easy choice, I'd find another church.

 

[bjabass]

I don't do bar gigs anymore for a couple reasons. I can't trust myself not to be back in the bottle and the bag.

I can't justify it even if I could, because someone else who is a recovering substance abuser may use me as an example as to why it was OK to go to the bar and relapse. (Biblically that is called not being a 'stumbling block'.)

Jesus could trust himself....