Church/Bar Band....Thoughts?

[madbassplaya]

A lot of it here has to do with location.

In the Bible Belt, especially the buckle where I have lived most of my life, the majority of churches consider alcohol sinful (this pretty much kicked off during prohibition, when pastor Grape Juice decided to campaign against alcohol and wine in communion), strangely he had also "perfected" a new recipe of grape juice (you know him as Welch). After these crusades mainly by people such as Welch and "church women" who were fed up with their men being at taverns and pubs, many churches took very firm line stances against alcohol, going so far as to re-interpret the Bible and suggest that it is literal with everything except for wine. In which case, since they didn't have a word for grape juice (they did) when Jesus made wine, he actually made grape juice. They never stored wine, they stored the grapes in a non-fermented jelly solution then added water to it.

Ever since prohibition, virtually every independent and Southern Baptist Church have been completely against alcohol, to the point where consumption is sinful.

Presbyterians, Methodist, Lutheran, and Catholic are generally accepting of it. Most of the other denominations stand firm against it.

Religious people are easy to motivate to go on a crusade, if you can appeal to the emotional side of their moral compass. Just like marijuana and Reefer Madness. By showing something can be un-ethical, it is just blankly labeled as unethical.

In my opinion the Bible is about liberty through Christ. It is much easier to live a life of constraint with rules, however.

Bingo!

I live in Northern Louisiana and the town that I live in is very conservative! There was a porn shop that opened up here before I came to college and the town had it shut down quick fast and in a hurry. Not saying that was a good or bad move, but just showing that the town will not stand for certain things that a town 30 minutes away will allow. The town also has a law passed that no hard liquor can be bought or sold withing the city limits. Imagine my astonishment when I went to get my old man a 5th of Jack for Christmas and I couldn't buy it at the local Wal-Mart.

The bible belt is a funny thing. At my church, I make it well known that I drink. I do not get drunk, at all. I do enjoy alcohol on occasion. A beer with my burger, a drink with friends, etc... I started a bar band not long ago and made it very clear that my intent was to play the local club scene and if there was a problem with it I wanted to know now. Luckily our music minister is cool and said as long as I held myself accountable he had no problem with it.

 

[dbhokie]

I don't do bar gigs anymore for a couple reasons. I can't trust myself not to be back in the bottle and the bag.

I can't justify it even if I could, because someone else who is a recovering substance abuser may use me as an example as to why it was OK to go to the bar and relapse. (Biblically that is called not being a 'stumbling block'.)

Jesus could trust himself....

Was Jesus a stumbling block?

I believe Paul addresses this with the same concerns as vegetarians and Sabbath observers.

I don't have a problem with someone not drinking. Not caring for it, I don't have a problem not drinking when I know it may offend someone that I am with. The majority of churchgoers offended at alcohol could never have a stumbling block of it put in front of them, they never would have any in the first place.

I believe (though I do not consider myself very close to God or much of a Christian, I like theology), the context is meaning what a christian is permitted to do, he may choose to do, but never is he compelled to do it. If they realize their example could be imitated by younger believers not mature enough to do this without facing temptation they’re unprepared to handle, out of love they should be willing to forgo this action unless and until they are able to handle it.

You can't live your life in constraint, you will always fail at any set of rules you set. I'll drink right in front of a Christian who tells me how sinful it is, its not a stumbling block then, its just them being judgemental and pretentious. I won't drink in front of someone who has had a serious problem with alcohol.

EDIT: Just to qualify I hope I didn't sound like I was telling you to do something else. If you don't trust yourself with it, then you are the person whom I would try not to drink in front of if it made you uncomfortable. I have no problem respecting that. Everyone has their struggles, and people have them in different areas.

 

[jaywa]

You can't live your life in constraint, you will always fail at any set of rules you set. I'll drink right in front of a Christian who tells me how sinful it is, its not a stumbling block then, its just them being judgemental and pretentious. I won't drink in front of someone who has had a serious problem with alcohol.

Another great insight. Wow, there is a lot of wisdom being put forth on this thread, seriously. I'm glad the OP opened up this conversation. As a practicing Christian and worship team member who also plays in bars (frequently) and is a "social drinker", these perspectives are helping me sort through some issues that have been a pretty big part of my life for quite awhile.

 

[the yeti]

I swing both ways... My old pastor and his wife... seem to enjoy themselves just fine.

No one at church has ever said anything negative about it.

a little creative editing and the legend grows!

 

[Ric5]

I do church in the home. My home. Nobody looks down at me in my home.

 

[Texan]

This is why I distanced my self from organized religion, hypocracy. I judge people on their virtue, and virtue alone. The people shaking their heads at you should be ashamed of themselves.

Rock-n-Roll is my religion...

 

[jaywa]

Interesting timing for this thread. My bar band will be playing this Friday and Saturday at the grand opening of a huge new casino about 20 minutes from my front door. I'm sure there are at least a few people at my church who wouldn't be thrilled to know I was doing that. Oh well...

 

[gjbassist]

Maybe you are just at the wrong church. I was a member of a church praise band for several years at a very contemporary, young Methodist church. Not only did I gig in a bar band with one of the guitarists from church, several members including the pastor and his wife would come to gigs, hang out and drink beer and talk with us between sets. Never felt like we were being looked down at.

 

[jaywa]

GJ, good point. To the OP... if this is really causing you issues, don't be afraid to consider a switch of churches. If your market is like mine, there are probably 10-15 churches within a half hour drive of your house who are looking and even praying for a good bassist to help them out RIGHT NOW. They are really that rare.

Of course you will want to pray about it and see what the Spirit is telling you... since there's a lot more to determining which church is right for you than just the band thing... but if you feel the push maybe it's time to make a move. And FWIW, 6-7 years seems to be a pretty common lifespan for involvement in one church before people move on. Apparently the 7-year itch doesn't just apply to marriage.

 

[kcole4001]

If someone is treating you dismissively because you play in a band outside of church, it is their problem and they are not behaving in a Christian manner.

Those folks are generally very closed minded and it's very hard (if not impossible) to change their way of thinking, and it's really a form of prejudice on their part.

You are doing nothing wrong or immoral by entertaining at bars, so don't let it bother you. Those people's opinions aren't the ones you should be worried about.

 

[HeadyVan Halen]

What about going to Church with a hangover.
New Years Eve was a Saturday, Sun Rise service at 6:00 am= + and finally this ...never did that again.

 

[jaywa]

What about going to Church with a hangover.
New Years Eve was a Saturday, Sun Rise service at 6:00 am= + and finally this ...never did that again.

I have basically had to quit doing the "doubleheader" thing (bar gigs Friday and Saturday, church band Sunday morning). It's just too much and I can't in good conscience come in to serve on a Sunday morning knowing I am not physically in a place to bring my best.

The BL of my bar band is very good at booking gigs well in advance, and my worship leader also books his musicians at least a month out... so I tell my worship leader which weekends I'm not playing with the bar band and he books me for those and uses other guys the rest of the time. I told my worship leader a few weeks ago that I would be extremely busy gigging this summer (including a lot of out of town travel) and at best I could give him one Sunday a month and he was OK with that. I have on a couple of occasions played on Sundays coming off a gig weekend but those were special favors where the worship leader couldn't find anyone else and was desperate. Usually in those situations he allows me to skip the Thursday night worship band practice and just get up to speed at the Sunday morning run-through which is easy enough given we play a lot of the same material over and over and it's all brain-dead easy. It works out about as well as it can for me given the variables involved.

 

[bjabass]

Was Jesus a stumbling block?

I believe Paul addresses this with the same concerns as vegetarians and Sabbath observers.

I don't have a problem with someone not drinking. Not caring for it, I don't have a problem not drinking when I know it may offend someone that I am with. The majority of churchgoers offended at alcohol could never have a stumbling block of it put in front of them, they never would have any in the first place.

I believe (though I do not consider myself very close to God or much of a Christian, I like theology), the context is meaning what a christian is permitted to do, he may choose to do, but never is he compelled to do it. If they realize their example could be imitated by younger believers not mature enough to do this without facing temptation they’re unprepared to handle, out of love they should be willing to forgo this action unless and until they are able to handle it.

You can't live your life in constraint, you will always fail at any set of rules you set. I'll drink right in front of a Christian who tells me how sinful it is, its not a stumbling block then, its just them being judgemental and pretentious. I won't drink in front of someone who has had a serious problem with alcohol.

EDIT: Just to qualify I hope I didn't sound like I was telling you to do something else. If you don't trust yourself with it, then you are the person whom I would try not to drink in front of if it made you uncomfortable. I have no problem respecting that. Everyone has their struggles, and people have them in different areas.

I had a long response to this but thought better of it.....if you like theology keep looking in to it. Yes we are under grace, not under the law.

 

[MNAirHead]

I'm sure there are at least a few people at my church who wouldn't be thrilled to know I was doing that. Oh well...

I'm on the hard core inner workings of a very successful congregation.. trust me.. NO MATTER what you choose, there will be someone questioning it...

For fun we read Monday morning Email...

Accountability and understanding are the keys.

 

[SJLee]

It depends on if it violates your conscious. Here's my situation. I play in my churches praise band and have been playing in a group that does original music. I recently decided to break from the group not because of what anyone else thinks but because it helps me make a clean break away from bad influences. YMMV, but my past is such that this particular group at this particular time does not encourage me to have a strong walk in my faith. For that reason alone I have decided to take a break. This is not to say that there may be another time when it could be the right situation. Also this is no judgment on you or whatever you decide is right for you in your situation.

 

[relwof]

We get some looks like this :scowl: from some people at church, but wait, get this, they see us out beacuse they're in THE SAME BAR!!

From a Christian/biblical perspective, the idea that all consumption of alcohol is evil is just ludicrous. The idea that being in the presence of people drinking is evil is downright heretical. If that were true, then Jesus himself sinned, and everything falls apart from there.

However, there are dangers in causing offense (becoming a "stumbling block to those who are weak"). This does not automatically make it wrong. Christ caused quite a bit of offense amongst the "religious" people of his day, and "church" people that would respond with "looks like this :scowl:" might could use a little offending. However, if someone from your church who you know happens to be a recovering alcoholic shows up at your bar gig, you might want to refrain from offering to buy him a beer...

 

[Laklandlover]

O.K. I'm going to try not to get all churchy and philosophical on you but this topic gets me fired up. I have been one of two bassists on our worship team for the past 7 years. I have been on our church’s leadership team/board of directors for the past 6 years and I was asked to become the Executive Director of the same church last year. I also play in a Country/Rock band that plays in bars just about every Friday and Saturday night. It saddens me when I hear that musicians are “judged” or asked to leave the praise team if and when they play in bars. I believe Your "God given" talent is to be shared with all. Yes, ALL, not just the ppl in your church. If Jesus would have taken that approach, only the Prophecies would have heard his message. Not only did Jesus turn water into wine, but Monks have been brewing beer and making wine for centuries. They make it, they sell it, they drink it and they enjoy it. It is a large part of their way of life.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with it. However there is always the line that shouldn't be crossed. Life is to be enjoyed in moderation and with a love in your heart. “Love thy neighbor as you love yourself", he said. Who is your neighbor? I ask. Is it only “Christian” people "like you"? I don’t think so. I believe He meant everyone. People in bars included.

Even our Pastor has been known to come out to a gig or two. He has a great time. His favorite beers are Kilt lifter and Guinness and he makes no bones about it. We have an "Art night" once per quarter at our church where we serve beer and wine, cheese and crackers and invite some local artists, poets and musicians to come and share their talents. We also release a new CD of our own originals on those nights. It's a blast. Everyone has a good time and sometimes, we talk about the Gospel. We don’t think it is required, but sometimes it is appropriate to include it in the discussion. I just don't get the folks that think life is to be lived in a bubble, void of outside influences. IMHO, life is to be LIVED!!! Live life to its fullest and love everyone!!!

Our church's motto is. "LOVE, PERIOD" Actually we don’t even call ourselves a “church”. We call ourselves a spiritual community.
So, I think we should all get out there and play our butts off for anyone who will listen. I believe that is what Jesus would like us to do. Then again, I’ve never actually spoken to Him, so what the heck do I know. I can only live my life in the “spirit” of scripture written in the Bible which I do not take literally.

Peace.

I play for a Pentacostal church and my Pastor understands that many musicians play outside of church because it is our JOB. They earn a living playing music. Its LA. I had the pleasure of playing a Sunday service next to Paul Jackson Jr. I was in shock and surprise he said this is giving back to Who gave the talent to him. So I have no problems play outside of church. I don't drink (anymore), I am good.

James

 

[bjabass]

It depends on if it violates your conscious. Here's my situation. I play in my churches praise band and have been playing in a group that does original music. I recently decided to break from the group not because of what anyone else thinks but because it helps me make a clean break away from bad influences. YMMV, but my past is such that this particular group at this particular time does not encourage me to have a strong walk in my faith. For that reason alone I have decided to take a break. This is not to say that there may be another time when it could be the right situation. Also this is no judgment on you or whatever you decide is right for you in your situation.

Well said. Well done. I say 'sin is what CONVICTS you'. For me it was the substance abuse I was doing while playing the bars. I wasn't a 'drunk' or an 'addict', I was a bad example and I was convicted about it so I quit. If it doesn't convict you, you have other issues that you should be working on that are more important for you.

Isn't it funny the 'Christianese' we begin to speak? Convicted in this case means 'feeling guilty about'.

 

[MNAirHead]

What was Mary's profession again?

 

[relwof]

... If you are a professional musician, your only income is from playing, and you are an avid Christian, you CAN'T play on the worship/praise team because somewhere some place someone twisted the Word and decided that it's a sin to play in a club.

Should a brick layer not take a job because the bricks he's placing are going to be a bar when he's done?
A Painter?
A bartender maybe?
Waitress?????

Actually it's worse than that. I suspect the vast majority of bass players in church are unpaid volunteers. So this is more like telling a bricklayer that since he donated his time to rebuild those front steps, he should only lay bricks at church. For free.