Claims about Este Haim's live playing

[BassBrass]

Stunning and brave. Quite a lot of mental gymnastics to justify a pointlessly race-baiting and intellectually lightweight post.

Black males being tragically underrepresented and voiceless in the bass playing community, right enough. Check your privilege.

Speaking of cancelling, you're going straight to my ignore list so I never knowingly have to witness you trying to think again.


As for Haim, go check out their father Moti Haim. That band are the definition of nepo-babies. The fact that they sound like Fleetwood Mac in the studio and a 2nd rate cover band live says a lot about their collective position of privilege; there is less of that coveted intersectionality going on here than you might initially think.

What did you think of Alana Haim in best picture nominee Licorice Pizza with Cooper Hoffman? In the case of nepotism I can't think of a more potent transfer of talent. (Phillip Seymor Hoffman) The only cure for Nepotism is something like the battle of Culloden or Agincourt, takes out breeding stock permanently, (except for Aria Stark) there's always a wee one left at home that carries on.

I think they're better than a 2nd rate cover band, they actually write their own material and perform it with gusto...if only they'd had a real hit they could age like the Stones which isn't allowed for women. (recent documentary on Fanny is a good example) But with their positive attitudes I wouldn't be surprised they do it for as long as the electric grid is up, and after that they can still all play their drums (not many cover bands do that, have every member switch to a percussion set up... Haim are a mixture of thin white girl privilege with serious extra security for the other issue which will not be mentioned, justifiably so

I do believe this whole thing was drudged up by a "content creator" and is a non issue in reality because like someone here said, Haim uses this for creating energy, and look, a bunch of geezers on Talk Bass now know about them that didn't. That's life these days.

"Black males being tragically underrepresented and voiceless in the bass playing community, right enough. Check you privilidge." you're being sarcastic I assume? no? From Clarke to Wooten, mono-neon to James Jamerson. Only other group that comes close are the British, say, Bruce to Wardel.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

N.B. I don't follow that band "HAIM."
I've listened to a few HAIM songs - it's OK, but...
There is SOOOOOOOO much Music released EVERY DAY, plus, all that Music from the PAST.
In EVERY GENRE, style!
I simple don't have TIME for all that MUSIC!
At TB, we've been able to solidly belittle the highest level bass players like Hadrien Feraud, Jeff Berlin, or Stanley Clarke (Oh, yes I remember how viciously I was attacked here at TB for posting and praising Clarke's cover rendition of "Under The Bridge!).
Just imagine, at TB we are able to criticize the most advanced bass players and WHAT?
I did not comment on that so called, "misogynistic" claim about HAIM yesterday. I thought, maybe, next day I would have some other vision on such a LONG discussion/THREAD about "misogyny" at TB.

Let's read carefully that very short posting by NOBODY on Instagram.
"Is it just me or is that bassist just acting."
How should WUTP interpret that phrase, "just acting?"
Is it a terrible bass-line?
Or
Is it that bass-line so good that I don't believe Este is playing it?
What?
Or
Is it about Este's FACE EXPRESSIONS while she's playing?
What?
Just imagine, NOBODY(!) out of BILLIONS of Twitter users has posted SOMETHING (WHAT?) that I and the OTHERS could interpret the way we like it to interpret.

(I tend to interpret that (WHAT?) misogynistic(?) event as a good promotional/marketing tool, because
only(!) a complete ignoramus could think that Este is not playing it live.
And that's why I have my take on that marketing event.)


N.B. We have the real people (not NOBODY) at TB who posted their critiques on my above-mentioned bass players, but we've survived that criticism.


This morning, as something that the bass players should talk about, analyze, evaluate, express their opinions, etc.,
I wanted to post my opinion about the bass-line from a new Scary Pockets' cover song, "Let's get it on."
I've listened to that song on my iphone, in my car, on my computer - I didn't know who played the bass (there are several bass players with Scary Pockets), but...
This morning, I found that video on Youtube and, , it's Nicole Row on the bass.
To sum up.
Shut up, WUTP. Don't say ANYTHING about that particular bass line.

 

[logdrum]

Oh man, we have regressed for a lot of women's rights in this country. But then it's not surprising when stuff like this happens - shows that the majority or collective mind has regressed or never moved forward. Shutting up now.

 

[majbass]

This is starting to sound more and more like Facebook or Twitter.

Yes...

This thread is a discussion among bassists about whether their bassist truly plays live, or whether anyone even has the right to ask.

The story on NME that inspired the thread is "Haim claps back at hater in Insta story"... basically tabloid/People magazine kind of stuff

 

[Doug P]

In So Cal we see many awesome female musicians. There are female tribute bands from The Iron Maidens to Cowgirls From Hell and……. These groups are playing around the states, Europe , OZ, etc……. As we guys think back to all the beginnings of our musical adventures, not a reason to think a woman didn’t do the same, but I’m guessing here but I’m thinking they had a harder time being taken seriously at first????? Remember to Support Your Local Musicians. RnFnR

 

[40Hz]

27567927[/URL], member: 24409"]Oh man, we have regressed for a lot of women's rights in this country. But then it's not surprising when stuff like this happens - shows that the majority or collective mind has regressed or never moved forward. Shutting up now.

Majority? Collective mind? Bit of a generalization I’d think in the absence of any statistical evidence considering it’s only the mouthiest and most controversial of people (on either side) with an axe to grind that are the voices who get press coverage, blog, or post videos.

Back in the 80s there was a lot of criticism being directed at the three big TV networks over their increasing tendency to sensationalize issues and air polarizing viewpoints to spark controversy. NBC’s response was the “The News” is entertainment, so tough luck and get used to it. As one TV exec put it, when someone is angry and shouting back at their TV, they don’t change the channel during a commercial break.

So my humble suggestion is to stop letting yourself get played, whether it’s by the big media, the siloed “alternative” news sources, or your own personal echo chambers and friends.

Most people don’t talk to you with the intent of having an open discussion. They’re far more comfortable standing on a soapbox or pulpit than they are taking a seat in a discussion circle. They are talking to you mainly because they want something from you. They most often only want you to: buy something, do something, or believe something they’re saying. The opportunity for mutual understanding and learning is slim in most of today’s verbal exchanges. We’ve been conditioned to get indignant at the drop of a hat and see every comment, no matter how innocuous, as a personal affront.

I found two general rules (actually they’re more what you’d call guidelines ) to be helpful when people are talking to and at you.

First, ask yourself the question: Why is this person telling me this? That smokes out their agenda if there is one and gives you a pretty good idea of whether you want to engage or just walk away.

The second is two admonitions from the operators of one of the earliest (as in pre-Internet) discussion boards called The Well:

Try not to offend.
Try not to be too easily offended.​

Pretty good advice IMO.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

And not even one person has asked,
What's wrong(?), what's interesting with that bass line from "Let's get in on?"

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Majority? Collective mind? Bit of a generalization I’d think in the absence of any statistical evidence considering it’s only the mouthiest and most controversial of people (on either side) with an axe to grind that are the voices who get press coverage, blog, or post videos.

Back in the 80s there was a lot of criticism being directed at the three big TV networks over their increasing tendency to sensationalize issues and air polarizing viewpoints to spark controversy. NBC’s response was the “The News” is entertainment, so tough luck and get used to it. As one TV exec put it, when someone is angry and shouting back at their TV, they don’t change the channel during a commercial break.

So my advice is stop letting yourself get played, whether it’s by the big media, the siloed “alternative” news sources, or your own personal echo chambers and friends.

Most people don’t talk to you with the intent of having an open discussion. They’re far more comfortable standing on a soapbox or pulpit than they are taking a seat in a discussion circle. They are talking to you mainly because they want something from you. They most often only want you to: buy something, do something, or believe something they’re saying. The opportunity for mutual understanding and learning is slim in most of today’s verbal exchanges. We’ve been conditioned to get indignant at the drop of a hat and see every comment, no matter how innocuous, as a personal affront.

I found two general rules (actually they’re more what you’d call guidelines ) to be helpful when people are talking to and at you.

First, ask yourself the question: Why is this person telling me this? That smokes out their agenda if there is one and gives you a pretty good idea of whether you want to engage or just walk away.

The second is two admonitions from the operators of one of the earliest (as in pre-Internet) discussion boards called The Well:

Try not to offend.
Try not to be too easily offended.​

Pretty good advice IMO.

Good advice.
I've calmed down a lot in the last few years. If someones trolling me in an angry hurtful fashion I consider the source.
Then I ask myself, "is flaming back going to change anything? Is this guy suddenly going to come to my side of the fence?"
Doesn't stop me 100% of the time, but it's like that meme from a decade ago where a wife asks her husband to come to bed and hes hunched over the PC and says "I can't come to bed. Someone is wrong on the internet!!!"

 

[40Hz]

27568044[/URL], member: 329278"]Doesn't stop me 100% of the time,

Me either.

But I usually wound up regretting it later on. Still, a burned hand teaches the best I suppose. And apology posts are hard to write. Fortunately, I’ve been pretty successful at curbing my unfortunate tendency to indulge in snarky responses. Not always. But it’s become a pretty rare thing for me to flame these days.

Truth is, I can’t think of a single time in my life when I went off on someone and actually felt better for it afterwards. It eventually dawned on me that getting angry took more out of me than it ever did from the person I was directing it towards.

I think the cardiologist I have put it best when he said that, speaking from a purely clinical perspective, it isn’t really a good idea for anyone - let alone someone with my heart - to indulge too frequently in the pleasure of rage.

Guess my body was telling me something all along.

 

[LBS-bass]

Kinda raises a question of what the truth actually is if it’s different for each person doesn’t it? Probably why I avoid using the word ‘truth’ as much as possible. It’s just too loaded a term these days.

I have very strong convictions based on a lot of thought and observation tempered by personal experience. But they’re lightly held convictions and subject to change based in new data. I see myself and my convictions as a work in progress.

I don't think that a person's lived experience is false.

I do think that perception is a key element to experience. But I would never dishonor someone's experience by denying them the right to their own perception.

If a person is truly delusional, that's another story.

I understand what you are saying and where it comes from. You and I have studied similar things. However, perception is just as valid as anything else.

 

[LBS-bass]

This is starting to sound more and more like Facebook or Twitter. Someone posts something. And very shortly afterwards the competition starts to show who’s been more abused and injured, who’s more virtuous, who’s more enlightened, who can be more righteously indignant. Who’s that one person in the room who “knows what the real truth is.”

Hope it doesn’t continue.

Pot... kettle.

 

[40Hz]

27568296[/URL], member: 317378"]Pot... kettle.

Seriously? I expected more discernment from you. But so be it. Anger and personal pain tends to color everyones’ perceptions.

I would however ask you to consider that some others in this thread have also been ridiculed, misjudged, and discriminated against at one time or another. That sort treatment isn’t gender or any other category du jour specific. I’ve found that people are pretty good at crapping all over each other without being too fussy about which group their target falls into.

Groups often lend a misguided sense of anonymity and immunity to their members’ behaviors. By the same token I’ve yet to meet anyone who “self-identifies” with anything where the “badge” didn’t also come with a small side order of self righteousness and entitlement. Plenty of shoulder chips to go around apparently. They’ve become our current society’s participation ribbon equivalent. Yay! Everybody gets one!

But it is what it is. Whatever ‘it’ is, that is.

 

[friskinator]

There’s a social media account I follow of a young couple who owns a domesticated serval (a type of wild cat). They clearly love the cat and treat it very well, and they live in what appears to be a very nice house. The cat has a great life.

Recently, the wife posted screen shots of the critical/hateful comments people leave on posts where she’s the only human in the pics. Stuff along the lines of “how dare you own this animal,” “this cat belongs outdoors,” and all sorts of others calling her a terrible person.

She then posted screen shots of the comments from an identical post where her husband is the only human in the pic. Nothing but praise and positivity for all he’s doing for the cat.

Is sexism real? Absolutely. Does it apply to Haim’s situation? I’m not sure, but probably.

 

[richntiff]

Just stumbled on this thread and I'm surprised it's still open TBH! Not surprised at the indignation of the privileged having it pointed out to them though. It's embarrassing and tiresome, this continued, willful ignorance and contrived outrage.

My main contribution to this thread though - ok, it's EXTREMELY obvious that Tommy Lee fakes his drum parts for Motley Crue nowadays, and by extension, it follows that Nikki Sixx likely fakes his bass parts (no doubt, due to the overwhelming technicality of the playing). So... why on GOD'S GREEN EARTH can we not get Vince Neil to fake his vocal parts?? My only reasoning why is because nobody cares due to the fact that the ones who bear the brunt of the assault are... well... motley crue fans.....

 

[hbarcat]

I've got an old Roger Waters concert on DVD and although he certainly looks to be playing on most of it, there is a part where a bass is heard yet his hands are not playing it. Was he miming it all along? Was there a bassist offstage, or a track? Was it an edited spot in the video where they goofed up?

Roger Waters is notorious for sloppy live playing. There are countless bootleg tapes of shows where Rog's bass sometimes drops out entirely because he's concentrating on singing and forgot to pay attention to his bass playing.

If the video you saw was an official release by Waters' production company, then it's very likely they did their best to fix it by pasting in a slice of the bass track from a different night.

 

[5StringBlues]

Damn the internet is fun!




Glad I don't own a computer.

 

[Gluvhand]

Roger Waters is notorious for sloppy live playing. There are countless bootleg tapes of shows where Rog's bass sometimes drops out entirely because he's concentrating on singing and forgot to pay attention to his bass playing.

If the video you saw was an official release by Waters' production company, then it's very likely they did their best to fix it by pasting in a slice of the bass track from a different night.

Waters has had a second bassist in his touring band for years. Currently it's Gus Seyffert.

 

[sunbeast]

I worked with another mid-level musician in LA who was good friends with the Haim sisters since before they really started to get much coverage outside of LA. They are all legit musicians and apparently pretty great people. True that they are indeed nepo-babies, but the same can be said for a startling amount of currently promoted artists of any sort these days- particularly people that grew up around the LA entertainment industries where money and influence are abundant and traditionally incestuous. I knew precious few younger successful musicians/actors/etc out there who didn't start out with a massive leg-up in one form or another (there were lots of successful older musicians out there that had gotten there via hard work, but the industry has obviously changed significantly over the last 20 years and there are far fewer opportunities to go around and less risks taken by those with the $$$).

Being nepo-babies doesn't excuse these kinds of comments- there is really no reason to question their playing (you can watch the video being discussed yourself in the provided link and there is literally nothing there to make me question its live music). If you had to deal with that kind of flimsy and very directed criticism constantly regarding the thing in life you were proud about, I'm sure you would feel justifiably bothered by it as well. When people are accusing you of not being able to play I think you have a right to defend yourself, no?

I find it strange that someone defending themselves against baseless critiques is in any way controversial- I'd guess many of us in their shoes would do the same, if not more aggressively so judging from some of these responses.

Of course this whole thread only exists because online "journalism" is literally just hundreds of articles a day of provocative clickbait to generate ad revenue, and if just half the people commenting click the link they will have made their quota while we all eat up the provocations and build mountains out of molehills...

 

[Pacman]

This is starting to sound more and more like Facebook or Twitter. Someone posts something. And very shortly afterwards the competition starts to show who’s been more abused and injured, who’s more virtuous, who’s more enlightened, who can be more righteously indignant. Who’s that one person in the room who “knows what the real truth is.”

Hope it doesn’t continue.

Yeah, wish granted.