Class D and Neo cabs are the future!

[JimmyM]

I know dozens of SVT users from those days who feel the opposite (including me). Again, back in the day, that was almost all there was.

And, if you never were able to turn a V4b up to distortion, my gosh, you are a wuss

my being a wuss is beside the point actually it was because we usually had good pa and we wanted to escape gigs with our hearing.

Seriously though, if you were cranking a V4b in a loud rock situation, you were grinding, you just didn't realize it back in the day. Nothing wrong with that... that is THE tone for that context.

nope...sorry. once in a while, like at the end of the night when my ears were fatigued, maybe i'd get it to grind, but i was never looking for grind back then so i ran it clean with an 810. i may not have been the most technical guy back then, but i could tell the difference between clean and dirty.

Again, I totally understand why many still love these amps, but your comments make little sense to me regarding volume and clean headroom of the SVT, much less the v4b.

that's because you are old and set in your ways and don't like tube amps and you choose to focus on what you perceived as negatives

 

[KJung]

my being a wuss is beside the point actually it was because we usually had good pa and we wanted to escape gigs with our hearing.

That goes to my first point in my original post... if you never really turned it up, well, no issue. +1000... a practice amp with a 10" speaker would probably stay clean and sound OK.

That is an entirely different situation than many of us are in (or were in at the time). You could use literally anything in that case... regardless of size, weight, wattage, or whatever.

You can't say that an amp has tons of clean headroom, and then say 'well, we never really turned it up'.

You can't take volume out of the equation. If I was doing gigs like you are doing, where I think you successfully used a Markbass 112 combo for a while, then I too could probably dial in a tone I'd be 'OK' with on a relatively low powered tube amp. That's, quite frankly, an uninteresting discussion... kind of like 'well, my old pickup truck goes as fast as your BMW, as long as we stay under 40 miles an hour'

 

[JimmyM]

wasn't aware that we were racing. i thought we were trying to make music. i got out of the low end arms race decades ago. oh well, like i said earlier, that's why other manufacturers and super high power amps exist alongside 300w tube amps. but i'm the exact opposite of you...super power doesn't impress me. cliff williams used to do ac/dc with two svt's and two 810's. found out he's using svt 4 pros now, but before then it was 2 svt's and 2 810's. if he could do ac/dc with 600w, i'm sure i'll be just fine with a max of 300.

 

[KJung]

wasn't aware that we were racing. i thought we were trying to make music. i got out of the low end arms race decades ago. oh well, like i said earlier, that's why other manufacturers and super high power amps exist alongside 300w tube amps. but i'm the exact opposite of you...super power doesn't impress me. cliff williams used to do ac/dc with two svt's and two 810's. found out he's using svt 4 pros now, but before then it was 2 svt's and 2 810's. if he could do ac/dc with 600w, i'm sure i'll be just fine with a max of 300.

+1 totally. My point is 'the right tool for the right job'. There is a reason that different types of players gravitate to different types of amplification. Not better or worse, but way different (i.e., sealed cabs, ported cabs with tweeters, clean solid state amps with high enough power to stay clean at moderately or very high power, tube heads that are nice and fat and warm and break up in a pleasant way when pushed, etc., etc., etc.).

Also, super power does not 'impress me' either (although as you know, with some low SPL cabs and a deep bass response goal, it can take a LOT of power... clean power.. to get that sort of rig and tone up to even moderate volume).

I've never gotten my 500 watt solid state heads into 'power amp limiting'... ever. However, that clean, quick, bright, tight, punchy, clean tone is absolutely necessary to me, and that is difficult to get at the volumes I play (and the techniques that I use, which include slap style on occasion) out of a moderately powered tube amp (I don't even think there are production level high powered tube amps... at least that anyone could carry or afford).

For the types of music I play, the volumes I need to achieve, and the tone goals that I have, none of my equipment (which happens to solid state, class D, SMPS, neo, etc.) is in ANY way a compromise... or I wouldn't be using it. It sounds SO much better than the old school stuff for my needs.

Would I recommend my rig for an old school rocker... absolutely not. Would I take seriously a recommendation to move back to, for example, an SVT rig for my needs... obvouisly not...and size and weight have very little to do with that!


PS/Edit: I NEVER use the backline amplification choices of an arena act as representative of anything. Those are totally 'front of house' shows. We have no idea if a) the backline is even on, b) the stage volume, c) what the tone of the guys bass even sounds like. There is IMO ZERO useful information in discussing the capabilities of backline gear in the context of personal monitoring used by the top 20 music acts in the world. IMO.

 

[aborgman]

wasn't aware that we were racing. i thought we were trying to make music. i got out of the low end arms race decades ago. oh well, like i said earlier, that's why other manufacturers and super high power amps exist alongside 300w tube amps. but i'm the exact opposite of you...super power doesn't impress me. cliff williams used to do ac/dc with two svt's and two 810's. found out he's using svt 4 pros now, but before then it was 2 svt's and 2 810's. if he could do ac/dc with 600w, i'm sure i'll be just fine with a max of 300.

...and Cliff Williams had those SVTs grinding like a mother.

 

[JimmyM]

...and Cliff Williams had those SVTs grinding like a mother.

he did? on old bootlegs i hear where everyone drops out but him, the bass sounds pretty clean. oh well, maybe they di'd him and the amps were for monitors.

 

[tombowlus]

that's because you are old and set in your ways and don't like tube amps and you choose to focus on what you perceived as negatives

LOL!

 

[s_mcsleazy]

I meant I thought the car in your pic looked pretty cool. It's funny how even plain family cars from decades ago can manage to look cool today, and some have fuel economy comparable to today's cars.

As far as amps go, while I like and use huge, heavy antique tube amps, I do see the utility of small and light for certain situations. However, in 10 years, today's small and light will be just obsolete stepping stones on the way to smaller and lighter, while the antiques of today will still be "cool" and have a following. I'm also a strong believer in "use what you have," not having the $ to keep buying a rig every year because it's slightly smaller and lighter.

i know what your getting at and i guess it really is all down to prefrences

but saying that when im on stage and ive got my old tube amp at 7 and im getting into it i honistly dont care how much it weighs or anythings because its worth it for me

 

[zachoff]

I have a D amp and it will never replace my SVT.

 

[aborgman]

he did? on old bootlegs i hear where everyone drops out but him, the bass sounds pretty clean. oh well, maybe they di'd him and the amps were for monitors.

On all the bootlegs I've heard, as well as on the studio stuff - his sound is definitely distorted.

Full on fuzz-face style breakup? No.

A little bit of grind on everything? Absolutely.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

funny, in response to the original post,
class d amps and neo cabs are actually in my past at this point.

 

[chadds]

Whatever. I have been playing alot of gigs lately with a classis rock band using just a Genz benz shuttle 6.0/12t. Plenty loud onstage, last weekend played a packed bar of about 150 people. I had my master volume at about 9 oclock. I could hear myself just fine onstage and the PA did the heavy lifting.

"whatever" could sound rude or valley or both I was speaking of putting a whole band, drums, vocals, sax, guitar and bass through some Sound on a Stick JBL Eons. That PA can adequately do vocals and acoustic guitar. Our sax player doesn't ever expect to be miked He's quite loud.

 

[modulusman]

"whatever" could sound rude or valley or both I was speaking of putting a whole band, drums, vocals, sax, guitar and bass through some Sound on a Stick JBL Eons. That PA can adequately do vocals and acoustic guitar. Our sax player doesn't ever expect to be miked He's quite loud.

Well that would be stupid since Eons are budget speakers at best. You need subs or better tops then you can leave the big Bass rigs at home. It never fails to amaze me when I go out and see some band with major money / big amps for backline with a POS PA. Then they wonder why the mix sounds like crap.

 

[chadds]

Eons are very effective at what they are designed for. In many band's cases they are great for vocals only. I hire a soundman with PA if the gig is large. Otherwise I'm playing gigs where the PA is installed or provided. I am called to play some smaller clubs, Art openings, Embassy parties, and private parties where the Eons are perfect, again vocals only. Our own amps take care of our own sound. Yes, for bass, I bring 1000 watts of class D power.
Bad sound is often user error. I hear bad sound from major PA companies doing major acts because their only concern seems to be a big bass drum sound.

 

[JimmyM]

On all the bootlegs I've heard, as well as on the studio stuff - his sound is definitely distorted.

Full on fuzz-face style breakup? No.

A little bit of grind on everything? Absolutely.

could be. but go check out those iso tracks on youtube if you haven't already. they're straight di. of course, maybe they didn't get the other iso track, or maybe he's so danged loud he can't help but to bleed into the drum mics

 

[NecroticImbecil]

i know what your getting at and i guess it really is all down to prefrences

but saying that when im on stage and ive got my old tube amp at 7 and im getting into it i honistly dont care how much it weighs or anythings because its worth it for me

Absolutely. I usually just use the lightweight when I don't really care how I sound and want something easy to move, like when it's just a bunch of drunk guys jamming blues in somebody's basement. I just live up the hill from the basement in question, but don't want to be staggering home after midnight carrying a 100 lb tube amp.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I really think that Class D amps and Neodymium cabinets are the wave of the future. Catch the wave! (Sorry I could not resist.)

I just see more manufacturers moving that way for shipping costs and manufacturing.

The two-ton Tessies will be a think of the past.

BTW, I love tube amps but don't want to schlep them back and forth to gigs!

I love the Class D and Neos as much as anyone who really likes them. Seriously. However... ...by the same logic, the Telecaster and the Ampeg SVT head AND cab, and the Fender Twin, and countless other heavy old and "un-messed with" items would be consigned to, and found only in a dusty corner of a Smithsonian/museum display about mid-century Americana. Clearly, that isn't the case, rightly or wrongly. You see things moving that way, but past history, and current trends of existing customers and musicians, as well is inferred trends of future musicians and purchasing decisions, seem to all point to the continued (and perhaps thriving) existence of such "dinosaurs", and not in the directions you indicate.

And the great thing is, you can have your amps and cabs your way, and to do so, doesn't keep lovers of the "old" stuff from buying what they want. And vice versa.

It's great that there are viable, good sounding options whether tube or not. Old or not. Ampeg or not. Tolex or not, etc, etc, etc...

I've never been much of an Ampeg kind of guy, but that doesn't mean I think they make bad stuff or the wrong stuff or bad-sounding stuff. Just not necessarily the sounds I want to hear out of my amps and cabs. For me.

 

[MetroBass]

Not in a stadium or areana.

 

[Lowbrow]

I moved big cabs - nothing smaller than a 2x15 - all through the 70s and 80s, and now I'm glad to be able grab my Schroeder 212 and up-sized 15 L. They make an awesome stack, tonight paired with a Carvin BX500. Crank the drive, add a VT Bass pedal, and the sound was everything woolly, warm, snarly and loud.

 

[Musicman20]

Im pretty sure the tube/big rigs will always be around. Ive known a few players to go straight from neo/class D/SMPS amps straight into a full blown Orange stack/similar. Why? Well, tone goals, and the fact they just want a big tube amp pumping behind them. Not necessarily at high volumes, but there as they enjoy it.

Me? I see the market for both, but one will never overtake the other.