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Class D and Neo cabs are the future!

#161
JimmyM said:
only if you played rock and roll in arenas and stadiums. but in theaters, not so bad.
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Played in a club in Ann Arbor Mi ( The Blind Pig ) back in the '7o's, that had 3 of the Vocal Master columns mounted HORIZONTALLY on one wall, with about two feet in between each one ,the head on a small table on stage ! It was, to be kind, a unique sound.
 
#162
I hate to tell you guys, but back when the PA system was used for vocals only, the Vocal Master was top of the line and penetrated really well. I used them in several bands, toured clubs with them and never had a hitch. They worked great for a purpose-designed unit.

As a matter of fact, for club dates, they're probably still superior to a lot of the crappy 15" + plastic horn cabs being used. By the time you mic guitar, keys, drums & bass thru them there's nothing but distorted voices eeking through if they're lucky.

Probably the biggest complaint from club audiences is that they "can't hear the words" or "can't understand the words".

The club bands around here sound like garbled juke boxes mostly. The live band experience is something that has gone from a stereo dynamic to a mono distorted buzzing roar.

I'm an advocate of everyone using their own amps which gives a real stereo live sound to a group, and a PA for voices only, which gives crystal clear vocals. If the drummer needs to be miked, let him bring his own amp & put it behind his stool.

What a great sound that would be. (What a concept!)
Live music in live stereo with real separation and clarity.
>whew!< I'm getting hot.

:hyper::bassist::bassist::bassist::hyper:
 
#164
THORRR said:
I hate to tell you guys, but back when the PA system was used for vocals only, the Vocal Master was top of the line and penetrated really well. I used them in several bands, toured clubs with them and never had a hitch. They worked great for a purpose-designed unit.

As a matter of fact, for club dates, they're probably still superior to a lot of the crappy 15" + plastic horn cabs being used. By the time you mic guitar, keys, drums & bass thru them there's nothing but distorted voices eeking through if they're lucky.

Probably the biggest complaint from club audiences is that they "can't hear the words" or "can't understand the words".

The club bands around here sound like garbled juke boxes mostly. The live band experience is something that has gone from a stereo dynamic to a mono distorted buzzing roar.

I'm an advocate of everyone using their own amps which gives a real stereo live sound to a group, and a PA for voices only, which gives crystal clear vocals. If the drummer needs to be miked, let him bring his own amp & put it behind his stool.

What a great sound that would be. (What a concept!)
Live music in live stereo with real separation and clarity.
>whew!< I'm getting hot.

:hyper::bassist::bassist::bassist::hyper:
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I remember the Vocal Disasters much less fondly.

Your concept above is what the famous Grateful Dead 'Wall of Sound' was based one... separate sound sources 'i.e., amps/PA's for each instrument, and voice, and then a 'mixer' that basically controlled the volume of each separate system.

Kind of a design that didn't solve any problems, quite franky. While the old Shure PA system was 'OK' for low volume vocals, modern day PA's, even small ones, are capable of lots more.

Things have gotten a lot better, or we would all still be carrying SVT's and 810's. Nothing wrong with those rigs for a certain, limited application, but I've never felt ANY compromise in my personal tone with any piece of gear I've ever purchased. I guess the only negative was prior to these wonderful lightweight cabs, using a cab too small for the job on some occasions to reduce weight. That wasn't a good thing, but that is a thing of the past!:bassist:
 
#168
THORRR said:
Same PA - Different Experiences

;)
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I do agree with you that, in a relatively small to moderate room, I'm a HUGE fan of vocals only (and horns, and possibly bass drum) through the PA, and everything else backline sound out to the room. Much better for the most part, especially for guitar and bass guitar tone. Nothing worse than bass guitar coming mostly from subs turned up too loud, and a guitar tone from a mic'd amp turned down too low.

IMO.
 
#169
Yes - The VM cabs were designed to be vertical for max penetration.

Another consideration was the acreage of cone being used in the system. We're talking 4 x 8's and 2 x 10's in each column!

That's a whopping 8 x 8's and 4 x 10's versus 2 x 15's and 2 horns being used by many club bands (at least here anyway)

The magnets in those VMs weren't small either.
I never have volume probs with the VM, and we were pretty loud for those times.

:bassist:
 
#170
are class d the future for amps?. mabey
are class d going to end up being the amps i use. probably not

see i like to think that the amp world is verry simalar to the car world in some aspects.

think ferrari or porsche or lambogini

they relece a car (or amp) with alot of power. THEN they relece a car thats lighter, more powerfull, less fetures (or in the amp world more fetures that i dont actually see much point in), practicality (or more real life practicality) and prices are way higher

so if its ok with you lot im gonna stick with my ford capri
 
#172
s_mcsleazy said:
see i like to think that the amp world is verry simalar to the car world in some aspects.


so if its ok with you lot im gonna stick with my ford capri
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2010-kia-soul.gif
 
#176
s_mcsleazy said:
yeah i think id rather not drive the kia home
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One of these cars is terribly obsolete, inefficient, and crude. The other is new, super efficient, and uses cutting edge tech. Oddly enough in a few years the older one, already worth many times its original value, will be even more valuable while the high tech scooter will be ...an old car nobody wants, replaced by even more efficient, cuttinger edgier tech. Ever try to sell last year's hot modeling amp? It's like trying to trade in last year's Madden at Gamestop.

Pretend computer amps may become a viable alternative, as ultralights already have. There will still be those who choose other equipment. I've had some NEOs and liked them; they don't sound like an EVM15 though. When I want that sound, that's what I use, for other things the NEOs are fine.
 
#177
I like nostalgia as much as the next guy , but that old classic wagon is good for one thing only : car shows. Not a vehicle I would want to haul around gear with to clubs. It probably would be stolen by the end of the first set, or keyed by some jealous drunk moron. I'll take the Kia anyday when it comes to gigging, and leave the classic cars to the rich and famous.
 
#178
NineSpine said:
I think that people who deny that tubes will pretty much go away one day need to take a look at the home audio market and it's lack of tubes, or the recording gear market and it's lack of tape. There's always a strong sentiment that things will never change... yet they always do, and a handful of regressives who refuse to change hardly counts as something still being a standard, but that WILL be the situation one day.
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in some ways it already is
 
#179
this thread is ass. 2 days ago i told you all that it's perfectly ok to like everything, and still, people are taking one side of the other. silliness. i think it has something to do with a lot of bass players being douchebags who feel inadequate about their situation so they always try to force everyone to believe as they do. boring.

and yet i always get sucked in. i guess i'm ass, too. sexy ass, though.

:D
 

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