billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
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Class D and Neo cabs are the future!
- Thread starter Axtman
- Start date
shuttle 9 with a 610. awesome.
As for me, I've played some sweet tones through a few different pieces of gear and I'm still hot for Phil Jones M-500s through a bank of Piranha speakers, a VTbass through a TC Staccato, and the Walkabout Scout 12.
I've been playing an SVT-4 through a SWR Henry lately and FWIW, the size and weight are byproducts of necessity because it simply works well. Lots of power and lots of moving air.
I suppose that the only solution in this whole thing is, as stated before, to clean up stage tone and that means everyone being able to hear everything at a strong enough volume to keep things going - and the only real answer I've heard to that issue comes from Phil Jones Bass gear and that's heavy and big for the most part.
After all, it IS rock and roll that we're mostly talking about.
Metal, Electric Jazz, Electric Country...these are all loud musics that take their cues from Rock and Roll. Gen(t)rify it if you're going to...but although I get where you may be coming from I'm not going to go there.
Let's see:
1) aluminum cones will replace paper
2) graphite will replace wood
3) all basses will be active
4) no more need for headstocks
5) four string basses will die out
6) the Internet will ruin the music biz
Only the last one happened, and regressives weren't to blame
1) aluminum cones will replace paper
2) graphite will replace wood
3) all basses will be active
4) no more need for headstocks
5) four string basses will die out
6) the Internet will ruin the music biz
Only the last one happened, and regressives weren't to blame
Zorkian Crystal-Fusion Nano Technology implants in our brains will replace all forms of amplification permitting us to directly mindmeld with our band mates AND audience so the sound you hear in your head is the sound the audience hears.
It will be so popular that it will replace pre-recorded music and people will only want to experience live music, so they can replay it in their mind without the need for external iBlobs or sterile-oh systems.
Oh, and since everything is on the mental level, you need to learn to play music, but you won't have any bass in your hands, as trees will be a thing of the past and you'll have to rely solely on your musical creativity.
Alas, the mainstream masses will still want to listen to sappy creppolah while intelligent well-crafted and spiritually inspired music will be relegated to niche status.
It will be so popular that it will replace pre-recorded music and people will only want to experience live music, so they can replay it in their mind without the need for external iBlobs or sterile-oh systems.
Oh, and since everything is on the mental level, you need to learn to play music, but you won't have any bass in your hands, as trees will be a thing of the past and you'll have to rely solely on your musical creativity.
Alas, the mainstream masses will still want to listen to sappy creppolah while intelligent well-crafted and spiritually inspired music will be relegated to niche status.
I have to say +1 to this. It's my favorite way to play and to hear others play. Of course provided it's in a place suited to this, ie: small to medium rooms.
I'm all for Class D and Neo cabs, they're great. But then I plug a Peavey VB2 into a Fender 2x15" cab and turn it up, and it hurts so goooood!
i've done as large as an 800 seat theater using stage volume. did it with a freakin' b-15n, too! we don't blow the places out but we get pretty loud through most of the theater. the thing i like about using pa is the dispersion is better, but i do like being the only point source for bass. definitely clears up the comb filtering.
Alright, I know this was a few pages back, but I just wanted to ask: If it's not the MI industry's demand for tubes that's keeping them in production......then what is? It's not military equipment anymore, and there's not a lot else besides Home Audio that uses tubes, so where is the demand coming from that is keeping them in the green?
Now, if it IS the MI industry that is keeping them going, why won't it be able to support it indefinitely? What's going to change? I don't believe shipping costs are going to really factor in, as as long as there's demand for those behemoth amps, the shipping costs will be covered in the price.
Now, as far as Class D and Neo? I say for those that it works for, go for it. You won't catch me playing them, but if you want to be my guest. I understand some people like the light weight, but a lightweight rig for me is a rig that doesn't weigh over 100 lbs, so I'm content dealing with my heavy, out-dated equipment.
Can't we all just get along and fight the real enemy: ROCK BAND & GUITAR HERO.
It does. I find that a good PA sounds like a good stereo but hearing musicians play their stuff up close doesn't sound like a stereo at all.....sounds better. You can label it with magazine terms like "natural" or "organic", whatever. Point is you get to hear what's going on from the source rather than capturing an image of it, be it mic/di or whatever and then hearing it played back through a larger, all encomapassing system like a good stereo.
I'd rather go the "natural" way as far as I can....up to it's limits but as you point out, depending on the setting, those limits can be a ways out there.
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
I get what you're saying but you chose the wrong analogy to make your point. According to Stereophile magazine, there are more audio manufacturers making and selling high end tube electronics today than there ever was in the 50's and 60's golden era of home audio. Tubes can just do some things that solid state can't and vice versa.
started playing guitar in 1972, bass in 1974. first heard that tubes were going away in 1975. got my first ampeg tube amp in 1978 and proceeded to hear that rumor many times over the years. people with their gk's and traces used to goof on me and i doggedly stuck to the v4b because it was so much better than their rigs to me. and despite finally switching to hybrids in 1997, it wasn't until late 2007 that i ever even heard a solid state amp or preamp that could compare. it's only been recently that i could have even allowed for the possibility, and i still hear and feel a lot of things in my tube amps that compel me to bring them, even though i know i could easily make life on myself a lot easier and still have very good sound. occasionally i do that, but more often than not, i lug the big iron, especially if it's a big gig.
so you'll have to forgive my ongoing skepticism of this whole tubes are dead thing. despite ss making leaps and bounds in the last few years, tube amps are more popular now than they've ever been. plus with tube pres, tube pedals, tube di's, keyboards with tubes, etc., it's tube mania all over again. as long as people keep buying them, tubes aren't going anywhere. not sure why so many people have it in for tubes, or why people care so much if others use them, but if tubes go the way of the dodo bird, it won't happen in our lifetimes.
so you'll have to forgive my ongoing skepticism of this whole tubes are dead thing. despite ss making leaps and bounds in the last few years, tube amps are more popular now than they've ever been. plus with tube pres, tube pedals, tube di's, keyboards with tubes, etc., it's tube mania all over again. as long as people keep buying them, tubes aren't going anywhere. not sure why so many people have it in for tubes, or why people care so much if others use them, but if tubes go the way of the dodo bird, it won't happen in our lifetimes.
Are tubes outdated, and tube amps generally big and heavy?
Sure.
Do they sound good?
Hell yes. As long as my amp sounds good to me, I'm going to keep on using it. So far, the amps that have sounded the best to me have been tube amps, though the Markbass stuff was pretty nice for a clean sound, and some hybrids have been all right. Yeah, my amp is pretty heavy, 65 pounds or so in the case, but I'm 23. Right now, the weight really isn't a factor to me, at all.
Plus Peavey makes a tube amp that's only 37 pounds. If my current amp ever becomes too much, I can just get one of those.
Is my setup ideal for everyone else? Of course not. Other bassists have different goals in gear than I do. The sound I like is best achieved, so far, with a tube amp, and for me, right now, weight isn't an issue. Other bassists will find that vastly different stuff than I use works best for them if they have different tonal goals, and for many of them, weight might be much more of a consideration than it is for me.
As long as some people have tonal goals that they find best met with tubes, and are willing to lift the weight (although, it might only be 37 pounds), there will continue to be tube amps. There will also continue to be really light weight class D solid state amps, because different bassists like different things.
Sure.
Do they sound good?
Hell yes. As long as my amp sounds good to me, I'm going to keep on using it. So far, the amps that have sounded the best to me have been tube amps, though the Markbass stuff was pretty nice for a clean sound, and some hybrids have been all right. Yeah, my amp is pretty heavy, 65 pounds or so in the case, but I'm 23. Right now, the weight really isn't a factor to me, at all.
Plus Peavey makes a tube amp that's only 37 pounds. If my current amp ever becomes too much, I can just get one of those.
Is my setup ideal for everyone else? Of course not. Other bassists have different goals in gear than I do. The sound I like is best achieved, so far, with a tube amp, and for me, right now, weight isn't an issue. Other bassists will find that vastly different stuff than I use works best for them if they have different tonal goals, and for many of them, weight might be much more of a consideration than it is for me.
As long as some people have tonal goals that they find best met with tubes, and are willing to lift the weight (although, it might only be 37 pounds), there will continue to be tube amps. There will also continue to be really light weight class D solid state amps, because different bassists like different things.
this thread is ass. 2 days ago i told you all that it's perfectly ok to like everything, and still, people are taking one side of the other. silliness. i think it has something to do with a lot of bass players being douchebags who feel inadequate about their situation so they always try to force everyone to believe as they do. boring.
and yet i always get sucked in. i guess i'm ass, too. sexy ass, though.
Because it's too tempting to try to tell everyone "Look dude, use whatever you like and don't knock other bassists for doing the same."
I, for one, am glad that not everybody is going for the same sound I am. Variety is interesting and fun. I like hearing different people make a lot of different tones work, even if lots of them wouldn't work for me.
HA ha!!
Yep & I HAD a tube amp ALL thru this time (late 70's 80's & early 90's) & I didn't even KNOW this was goin on!! I just knew what I had was what I liked & whenever ppl suggested I use their amp, or it was a multi-band eve & NO TIME to get my amp up there etc...
I was ALWAYS disappointed with the "great new bass amp" these guys were raving about & eager to have me play thru it.
& DAMN weren't there some 'tinny a$$ed' "bass" sounds comin out in the late 80's,?????????????????
Hootin' heck- I remember hearin some guy playing some new gear with "tin speakers"
& CRIKEY he had a TIN sound as well... ......Probly had that new GRAPHIC EQ on his great new amp dialed in a big smiley face
& was slappin the cremola outta his pointy ended bass 
It was SO 'UN- bass-like' to me- this guy STILL rated as a 'great' in my town
& STILL has a rubbish tone. I guess a lotta YOUR sound is in YOUR ears huh???
So as to whether ANYTHING's comin or going..........
can't we all just get along
Exactly.
These reasons, along with cost, is why I went with a Markbass head instead of a tube head. As a guitar player, I LOVE tubes. When working with gain tones, tubes are an indispensable part of that aesthetic so it is inconceivable that the technology will become outdated in the near future. There are 'lunchbox' sized guitar amps coming out, but they are mostly <30watt class A tube designs which you run with a cute little 1 x 12 or 2 x 12. (good news for bassists)
As a guitarist, I also like tube bass gear. Tubes are warmer as well as more liquid and resilient. They just have an elastic response and respond so well to the player. It is like playing any expensive instrument where every nuance of the master is audibly transferred into the final tonal product. The tone is so thick and rich, and it really sings.
My Markbass solid state head sounds fantastic. It is thunderously loud, punchy, and incredibly urgent. The downside is that it is compressed and it basically MAKES the tone instead of amplifying it. Why did I go with this head then? Well, I can't afford $2000 for a 300watt tube head and I want a portable rig. The small stuff doesn't sound bad, it sounds great. It is just for a different purpose than a fridge with a tube head. Maybe I'll get a tube head one day? Until then, I'll just run my guitar head with my cab whenever I get the urge!
