Class D and Neo cabs are the future!

[JimmyM]

use your guitar head. why not? not a whole lot of difference between guitar and bass tube heads. worth a shot, anyway. the markbass is nice to get in and out of gigs with and despite the compression i think it sounds great, but hey...tubes.

 

[pygmygrizzly]

if I had roadies, I would used a cab made of metal that weighs as much as a car, and has like a 1000 speakers... If I had money I would buy a light weight head and cab to shlep about to gigs... but I don't, I'll just use a D.I. and let the sound man shape my tone. besides it fits in my case, and on a plane. anyone have a favorite DI?

 

[JimmyM]

heil pr 40. stick it in front of a cab, plug it direct into the board...great di.

 

[KJung]

if I had roadies, I would used a cab made of metal that weighs as much as a car, and has like a 1000 speakers... If I had money I would buy a light weight head and cab to shlep about to gigs... but I don't, I'll just use a D.I. and let the sound man shape my tone. besides it fits in my case, and on a plane. anyone have a favorite DI?

Nice that you always have front of house and supplied backline. That, of course, changes the entire discussion and makes amp choice and type a bit of a moot point.

To answer your question, for active basses, the JDI is wonderful IMO... small, warm, clean, uber high quality. For passive basses, the Countryman is my choice (classic DI that provides active buffering for those long cable runs without changing the voice of the instrument much) High quality, small. Both of these are totally accepted by the vast majority of sound professionals.

 

[KJung]

started playing guitar in 1972, bass in 1974. first heard that tubes were going away in 1975. got my first ampeg tube amp in 1978 and proceeded to hear that rumor many times over the years. people with their gk's and traces used to goof on me and i doggedly stuck to the v4b because it was so much better than their rigs to me. and despite finally switching to hybrids in 1997, it wasn't until late 2007 that i ever even heard a solid state amp or preamp that could compare. it's only been recently that i could have even allowed for the possibility, and i still hear and feel a lot of things in my tube amps that compel me to bring them, even though i know i could easily make life on myself a lot easier and still have very good sound. occasionally i do that, but more often than not, i lug the big iron, especially if it's a big gig.

so you'll have to forgive my ongoing skepticism of this whole tubes are dead thing. despite ss making leaps and bounds in the last few years, tube amps are more popular now than they've ever been. plus with tube pres, tube pedals, tube di's, keyboards with tubes, etc., it's tube mania all over again. as long as people keep buying them, tubes aren't going anywhere. not sure why so many people have it in for tubes, or why people care so much if others use them, but if tubes go the way of the dodo bird, it won't happen in our lifetimes.

I would not think big tubes amps would ever totally go away, and don't remember anyone ever suggesting that. They are a different thing totally, and there are players who are looking for that tone and will put up with the weight. Of course, they have moved to a small niche of the market, but that makes sense to me.

I can't see where you get the 'tube amps are more popular now than they've ever been'. That makes no sense. Back in the day, the market share of tube amps in the bass amplification market was literally 100%. Now, my guess is, maybe 10% of sales... probably even less than that (just guessing there... probably very, very low).

I agree, you do see them on a lot of video's, where many producers and directors want a certain look, but I would guess that is not correlated with sales in any way.

There surely is a place for the new SVT amps though, and I assume they will be around for good. There will also, I'm sure, be a small but viable niche for high end boutique tube amps also (and also the Orange thing, which has all that history and vibe to it), although that's a difficult sell (as Roger Sadowsky found out).

Tube pre's and hyrbrids, of course, are a totally different thing than big, low powered, heavy all tube amps. You have to really want that particular tone (for most, that tube power amp break-up) to haul the big iron these days IMO.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

One of these cars is terribly obsolete, inefficient, and crude. The other is new, super efficient, and uses cutting edge tech. Oddly enough in a few years the older one, already worth many times its original value, will be even more valuable while the high tech scooter will be ...an old car nobody wants, replaced by even more efficient, cuttinger edgier tech. Ever try to sell last year's hot modeling amp? It's like trying to trade in last year's Madden at Gamestop.

Pretend computer amps may become a viable alternative, as ultralights already have. There will still be those who choose other equipment. I've had some NEOs and liked them; they don't sound like an EVM15 though. When I want that sound, that's what I use, for other things the NEOs are fine.

thats all well and good but i think id rather drive my bassman and my cabs home in this

over a kia with a genz benz shuttle anyday

altho for the record the only class d amp i like is the orange tiny terror bass head. but it cost £200 more than the bassman just like the kia costs far more than a old capri or cortina.

mostly because in the uk class d amps are rather expencive as are new cars (or even cars that are less than 8 years old)

 

[TRU]

The cab is the thing that will give you a hernia. How about a mix and match?

That's the way for me at least. It makes no difference whether the amp weighs 1 or 10 kg (2-20lbs), but it really helps your back if a cab weighs 20kg instead of 40kg.

 

[nysbob]

I'd say they're more the present. I'm hoping the future has some developments we can't envision at this point.

Incidentally, I'll probably still be using my tube SVT and heavy 15"s then too.

 

[YellowJacket]

use your guitar head. why not? not a whole lot of difference between guitar and bass tube heads. worth a shot, anyway. the markbass is nice to get in and out of gigs with and despite the compression i think it sounds great, but hey...tubes.

Haha, when I feel like schlepping my tube guitar head I'll use it. It puts out 100watts and weighs like 35lbs so it is heavy and not terribly powerful. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Markbass head and it is super light / easy to move. One day I'll have to get a second bass cab to go with my 210, provided I need one!

 

[nemo]

For me there is no OR.. ..with the 13 lbs Walkabout head with nearly all-tube tone. Thank you, Mesa

 

[KJung]

For me there is no OR.. ..with the 13 lbs Walkabout head with nearly all-tube tone. Thank you, Mesa

After all these years, that amp continues to be unique and special IMO. Not really my thing, but just total quality, honestly rated power, and about as close to an all tube head as anyone is going to get in a small amp. Also, no namby pamby shut down with funky power or impedance slightly below 4ohms, etc. Really amazing. I had one for a while and really dug what it did. I like the new black faceplates on it also... slick!

 

[jnewmark]

HA ha!! Yep & I HAD a tube amp ALL thru this time (late 70's 80's & early 90's) & I didn't even KNOW this was goin on!!

I just knew what I had was what I liked & whenever ppl suggested I use their amp, or it was a multi-band eve & NO TIME to get my amp up there etc...
I was ALWAYS disappointed with the "great new bass amp" these guys were raving about & eager to have me play thru it.

& DAMN weren't there some 'tinny a$$ed' "bass" sounds comin out in the late 80's,?????????????????

Hootin' heck- I remember hearin some guy playing some new gear with "tin speakers" & CRIKEY he had a TIN sound as well...
......Probly had that new GRAPHIC EQ on his great new amp dialed in a big smiley face & was slappin the cremola outta his pointy ended bass

It was SO 'UN- bass-like' to me- this guy STILL rated as a 'great' in my town & STILL has a rubbish tone.
I guess a lotta YOUR sound is in YOUR ears huh???


So as to whether ANYTHING's comin or going..........
can't we all just get along

Wow, 8 smilies in one post. That's gotta be a record.

 

[JimmyM]

I can't see where you get the 'tube amps are more popular now than they've ever been'. That makes no sense. Back in the day, the market share of tube amps in the bass amplification market was literally 100%. Now, my guess is, maybe 10% of sales... probably even less than that (just guessing there... probably very, very low).

I agree, you do see them on a lot of video's, where many producers and directors want a certain look, but I would guess that is not correlated with sales in any way.

of course they're not outnumbering those who use ss amps. ss amps will always be cheaper so of course more people on the whole will use them. but companies who traditionally made only ss and hybrids for bass like peavey and ashdown now make tube amps, companies like gk that never once used tubes are now using tubes, boutique bass amp builders are offering more choices, and the b-15n is making its return after 30 years, plus an ashdown version of it. plus the number of pro stages where tube amps are being used has increased over the last 10 years like crazy. if bassists aren't using full-on tube amps, chances are they're using a hybrid.

There surely is a place for the new SVT amps though, and I assume they will be around for good. There will also, I'm sure, be a small but viable niche for high end boutique tube amps also (and also the Orange thing, which has all that history and vibe to it), although that's a difficult sell (as Roger Sadowsky found out).

if roger sadowsky came out with the sa200 again, i think it would be a different story. i think he'd have to tweak it a little to appeal more to rockers than jazzers, but i think it would do better now.

Tube pre's and hyrbrids, of course, are a totally different thing than big, low powered, heavy all tube amps. You have to really want that particular tone (for most, that tube power amp break-up) to haul the big iron these days IMO.

well of course you have to want it. you have to want anything you'd use. why buy it if you didn't want it?

 

[KJung]

of course they're not outnumbering those who use ss amps. ss amps will always be cheaper so of course more people on the whole will use them. but companies who traditionally made only ss and hybrids for bass like peavey and ashdown now make tube amps, companies like gk that never once used tubes are now using tubes, boutique bass amp builders are offering more choices, and the b-15n is making its return after 30 years, plus an ashdown version of it. plus the number of pro stages where tube amps are being used has increased over the last 10 years like crazy. if bassists aren't using full-on tube amps, chances are they're using a hybrid.

Hybrids are a totally different thing from all tube amps, and I agree, there have been, are, and will be plenty of them, if for no other reason being able to put 'tube' in the marketing spec's (like the Eden, Markbass and other 'faux tube preamps' where the tube doesn't really vary the voltage, etc.).

My comments were only concerning tube power sections, which define the 'sound' of a tube head (and also the weight) for most. My guess is, 10% would be at the very high end of the mix of tube power to solid state power sections.

Mesa is a good example of a firm who was able to finally eliminate their all tube heads, since their hybrids are more tubey than some tube heads!

Not sure if it is a price thing at all. If you 'price match' with the high end of the solid state world (Walter Woods, TecAmp Puma, etc.), I would say the mix of expensive solid state amps and tube amps is about the same.

Again, I agree with you that there will always be a niche for a big, all tube head, especially the SVT (which probably has 90% of that 10% market share, due to the history behind it, and the vibe, etc.

 

[NecroticImbecil]

thats all well and good but i think id rather drive my bassman and my cabs home in this

over a kia with a genz benz shuttle anyday

altho for the record the only class d amp i like is the orange tiny terror bass head. but it cost £200 more than the bassman just like the kia costs far more than a old capri or cortina.

mostly because in the uk class d amps are rather expencive as are new cars (or even cars that are less than 8 years old)

That's a pretty keen set of wheels!

I will say the paperweight amp comes in handy when I don't care what I sound like, just popping over to the neighbor's for an evening of drunken musical fun. For that, the convenience wins out. Similarly, if I just need to run to the store for something real quick I won't bother taking the sports car out of the garage, unlocking, folding, and stowing the cover etc., I'll just jump in the old beater economy car.

 

[JimmyM]

Mesa is a good example of a firm who was able to finally eliminate their all tube heads, since their hybrids are more tubey than some tube heads!

you really think that's the reason? i always thought the reason was that the 400+ was kind of an albatross with 12 6L6's powering it. i think they publicly say that's the reason, but i'm sure nobody enjoys having to replace power tubes in the 400+.

 

[KJung]

you really think that's the reason? i always thought the reason was that the 400+ was kind of an albatross with 12 6L6's powering it. i think they publicly say that's the reason, but i'm sure nobody enjoys having to replace power tubes in the 400+.

My guess is the reason was that it wasn't selling

 

[tombowlus]

if roger sadowsky came out with the sa200 again, i think it would be a different story. i think he'd have to tweak it a little to appeal more to rockers than jazzers, but i think it would do better now.

That's what you guys get for not listening to me the first time around!

 

[Jim Campbell]

Actually, there's TON's of gear for the home audio market that runs on tubes. It's more expensive of course, but is far dead.

yep....someone must have forgot to inform audio research and macintosh that they are wasting their efforts on ancient technology.....tubes were supposed to die in the 60's when solid state came out....

 

[JimmyM]

My guess is the reason was that it wasn't selling

paul mccartney bought a couple