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Class D popping up everywhere. Innovation?
- Thread starter Volume4
- Start date
Thank you for clarifying that. 
I admit I obsess too much over keeping things Analog or as close to Analog whenever possible.
It's just a personal preference.....not a knock on anything or anyones personal choices.
I admit I obsess too much over keeping things Analog or as close to Analog whenever possible.
It's just a personal preference.....not a knock on anything or anyones personal choices.
That would be an example... I figured there was no reason not to in theory (except for bias of people interested in tube amps against "defiling" it with digital circuitry, even if only in the power supply)
Interesting, if the weight on tube amps is primarily due to power supply transformer weight, I'm surprised more haven't done it.
Randy
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
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- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
You left out the most common kind of power supply--the conventional or line-frequency type, which is non-linear. Batteries and DC generators are really the only "linear" power supplies.
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes... I agree completely! What really matters is how it sounds and feels to the player. The technology used is the means to the end. It creally does not matter from a player's perspective provided the amp meets the player's needs.
I think the issue has been the high voltage requirement for tubes. Peavey seems to have solved it.
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- John K Custom Basses
the output tranny i also contributes to their weight, as they are often as large as the power tranny.
bongomania
Commercial User
^^^ True! And I believe the output tranny is a critical part of the overall tone--not easy to replace or do without.
hasbeen
Commercial User
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Yes I agree completely as the change from A to B or even C is just a bias change. But it would be illogical in my mind to use push-pull and then run the two halves in class A. You'd be better off parallelling the tubes and running them both class A.
Switching technology for power supplies sure removes weight, Class D and the proprietary pure digital modes G, H, X,Y,Z ah they're all doing stuff... BOB
Class D amps use analog AND digital principals to operate. They are both and yet they are neither...
Seriously, I think I would classify them as being discrete systems rather than analog or digital.
Newer class D amp designs use PDM instead of PWM.
None of that really matters. If it sounds good, use it.
My feelings exactly. Ruling out an amp based on reading about it's power section...
I had someone on here tell me my rig wouldn't work very well with a five string based on what he read. Fortunately my rig has no interweb access.
Thank you for clarifying that.
I admit I obsess too much over keeping things Analog or as close to Analog whenever possible.
It's just a personal preference.....not a knock on anything or anyones personal choices.
What's the preference based on? I'm curious.
Not to throw fuel on the fire here, but are there currently any companies making class G/H amps? I figure since there are some very brilliant minds in here I would ask them.
Any advantages going this route over class D? Or should I just leave my home audio knowledge out of the bass/PA world?
Any advantages going this route over class D? Or should I just leave my home audio knowledge out of the bass/PA world?
Probably messing with guitars too much.
... and being an ex-effects junkie, I really enjoyed Analog pedals the most. You can get away with a lot more in the low spectrum....for instance I had fun with a Bass POD but found the Guitar POD dreadful. Same thing with Hybrid amps, great for bass but never really perfected for guitar.
Also, it comes from Hi-Fi obsessions also.... I really like older SS amps and older speakers...audiophile stuff from the 70's.... I still play and buy vinyl.... I do own plenty of CD's but I made sure to buy a CD player with a top end D/A converter. I'm not totally fantical, I do own an Ipod because nothing beats it for riding the train or in the car.
Umm. okay..well, you asked
Amplifier classes - my two cents
I would think that the clean sound of an excellent tube amp, an excellent analog AB amp and an excellent class D amp sound almost the same, and I highly doubt that more than a few experts would be able to "hear" the difference between them.
When it comes to pushing the amps to their limits things are different - most tube amps are going into a smooth, nice sounding distortion, most AB amps will start a sudden and usually ugly sounding distortion, and class D will run into either a very hard limiter and go into protection mode.
As a result, for practical purposes you can use a tube amp with a power rating that you need, the AB amp needs considerably more power for the same volume, the class D even more.
Cass D is cheap and light, so you can have a 1200W class D amp at 9 lb, vs a 300 W tube amp that costs more and weighs 80 lb.
I run my bass through a 800 W iAMP 800 (class D, analog circuit) and I am very happy.
Also, on AVERAGE, tube amps are in general expenisive and since there is no way to make them real cheap they will usually have higher quality components than the average AB amp. Class D is the new kid on the block, and some people know how to make them (Euphonic Audio), some are still experimenting and getting the bugs out.
I would think that the clean sound of an excellent tube amp, an excellent analog AB amp and an excellent class D amp sound almost the same, and I highly doubt that more than a few experts would be able to "hear" the difference between them.
When it comes to pushing the amps to their limits things are different - most tube amps are going into a smooth, nice sounding distortion, most AB amps will start a sudden and usually ugly sounding distortion, and class D will run into either a very hard limiter and go into protection mode.
As a result, for practical purposes you can use a tube amp with a power rating that you need, the AB amp needs considerably more power for the same volume, the class D even more.
Cass D is cheap and light, so you can have a 1200W class D amp at 9 lb, vs a 300 W tube amp that costs more and weighs 80 lb.
I run my bass through a 800 W iAMP 800 (class D, analog circuit) and I am very happy.
Also, on AVERAGE, tube amps are in general expenisive and since there is no way to make them real cheap they will usually have higher quality components than the average AB amp. Class D is the new kid on the block, and some people know how to make them (Euphonic Audio), some are still experimenting and getting the bugs out.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
The higher-power QSC amps (other than the PowerLight 380, which is class D) are class H. I believe Crest still makes class H amps also.
Class H is at its core class AB, so it's a linear technology. It's easier to get extremely ultra-low distortion with class AB or class H than it is with class D, but a good class D design should have low enough distortion anyway.
Class H is at its core class AB, so it's a linear technology. It's easier to get extremely ultra-low distortion with class AB or class H than it is with class D, but a good class D design should have low enough distortion anyway.
Thank you Bob. I was really hoping you and/or agedhorse would comment on that. I know that for my home audio critical listening ends I never liked class D from the upper midrange on up. But class G/H seemed to sound quite a bit more like class A/B to me. I appreciate you taking the time.
Zach
Zach
Getting back to the original question: Class D popping up everywhere. Innovation?
I have wondered about this myself. The quick story: I was a Walter Woods owner from about 1996 until a couple years ago when it was stolen. I called WW for current price and delivery after the theft. At the time it was something like 2 years and $3000. I had paid around $1000 for my 450W green light WW back in 1996. The current high price on the Ultra is the reason why I didn't get another WW - and the lead time. Coincidentally, at this time, several mfrs were coming out with class D switch mode power supply amps, a term I had only heard from Walter himself - or after reading articles about his amps. My first purchase was the Acoustic Image Focus amp, which I had to send back twice for failures. Anyway, the point is that it was only $1000 vs. $3000 for a new WW. I now have the Carvin BX500 (it's ok), a GK MB2500 (sounds nice), and the new Genz 9.0. The nice thing is that these amps have a direct XLR outputs on them. And we all know that the Genz 9.0 is only around $800, which is a great price (of course this is true because they are not made here in the USA vs. Walter makes his amps here, but that's another topic).
So, the big question is: what took all these other companies so long to make an amp like WW had been making since the late 70s or early 80s? I used to think that he had a patent on the design or something - but who knows? Heck, even SWR is finally coming out with their new class D AmpLite (just saw it in the 1/10 issue of BP)
I have wondered about this myself. The quick story: I was a Walter Woods owner from about 1996 until a couple years ago when it was stolen. I called WW for current price and delivery after the theft. At the time it was something like 2 years and $3000. I had paid around $1000 for my 450W green light WW back in 1996. The current high price on the Ultra is the reason why I didn't get another WW - and the lead time. Coincidentally, at this time, several mfrs were coming out with class D switch mode power supply amps, a term I had only heard from Walter himself - or after reading articles about his amps. My first purchase was the Acoustic Image Focus amp, which I had to send back twice for failures. Anyway, the point is that it was only $1000 vs. $3000 for a new WW. I now have the Carvin BX500 (it's ok), a GK MB2500 (sounds nice), and the new Genz 9.0. The nice thing is that these amps have a direct XLR outputs on them. And we all know that the Genz 9.0 is only around $800, which is a great price (of course this is true because they are not made here in the USA vs. Walter makes his amps here, but that's another topic).
So, the big question is: what took all these other companies so long to make an amp like WW had been making since the late 70s or early 80s? I used to think that he had a patent on the design or something - but who knows? Heck, even SWR is finally coming out with their new class D AmpLite (just saw it in the 1/10 issue of BP)
