Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 14)

[KJung]

WOW amazing how that cab has an upright bass tone to it...

Ken I also enjoyed you playing a groove on that clip instead of the noodling...Good job...

Thanks! I typically put up these clips with a pure focus on just presenting the tone of the cab (hence typically just play patterns/licks up and down the neck). But in this case, I thought the music minus 1 thing was a nice context for that sort of tone and playing.

The LG really does sound beautiful through that particular rig for that particular vibe to me!

The 'upright' bass tone you mention (primarily that big, open, deep low end versus sounding anything like a DB really) has to do with the massive low end extension of that driver (the amazing 3012LF neo 12 from Eminence). It is quite amazing that much low end can come out of that tiny little box at the volume levels it can achieve... and it is only 34 pounds. It is 4ohm also (proprietary driver based on the 3012LF), and was designed to be used with the typical 400-600 watt Micro head. Pretty cool, and even with that big horn, it is still nice and organic sounding... deep, but you can hear every note.... even significantly off axis like this recording.

 

[rodl2005]

Sounds nice Ken. Appreciate that you DO actually put so many different -quality- bass items on show for us all to see.
Great to see & even greater to see a wide variety of stuff- so it can only help us(ME) make decisions on gear we can only dream about trying out -unless we BUY IT FIRST !

I'd NEVER been a real fan of JAZZ basses, I DO Love my Reggie Hamilton STD sig jazz, but IT has a P/J pup set up, but has a great preamp & active/passive switching. BUT even on this I favor the P pup.

Then I found the AC's & luckily found one 2nd hand in Australia- tha fact that it has the TONE control that works in passive mode was a HUGE + for me deciding to grab it. Oh & this MEGATHREAD didn';t hurt either

One play on it & I was SOLD-lucky really- as I'd bought it already!!

I USUALLY use it in passive mode( our band playing old Soul/R n B/ Funk/ motown etc..) But switch it to active for our last 1 & 1/2 sets - which include far more modern funk & soul & other dance type music.

I would LOVE two AC's.... but can't see me affording that for a WHILE. And My RH sig Jazz does the 'P bass with flats' sound wonderfully.

So- thanks again to all on here who've helped me come to my (almost) GAS-less situation.

 

[bassarama]

WOW amazing how that cab has and upright bass tone to it...

Ken I also enjoyed you playing a groove on that clip instead of the normal noodling...Good job...

OUCH...noodling kind of stuff :scowl:

Yeah seriously though, that wasn't too bad a rendition of STELLA--not exactly a la Paul Chambers mind you swing and feel but hey tasty playing nonetheless and the chord changes were all there... A surprising number of pro basss players I know are not able to circumnavigate those changes-much less have them memorized. KUDOS to you Monsieur K !!

Now what about that BASS.

I just put a set of 45-125 Nickel Lo Riders on the LM, and at first I found them a little too taut ( compared to the Sunbeam Nickels -which I ran out of ) and after a copule of weeks and a few gigs- and the bass being ravaged by some good friends of mine at a music store recently--you know--- I've come to dig the strings now, AND the more so after hearing how sweet your ( Ken's ) LG 5 sounded.

Stainless Steels are just not for me-they sound good and slap real good-but horizontal playing is very restrictive pour moi--how does Marcus do it ?

For the record Ken it is a blessing to have a cat like you taking the time ( and MONEY ) to put up these clips on various amp/cab configs and of course your killin' machines.
In order my faves are your LM, LG and then ( if I had to ) the SADOWSKY

My friend's LG made an impressive debut yesterday also. Raves from fellow musicians and sound techs alike reported.

Yeah those ALLEVA's are the bomb--but wait a minute I see a NORDY P5 approaching in my rear view.

It's all good

 

[Vic]

...I just put a set of 45-125 Nickel High Beams on the LM, and at first I found them a little too taut ( compared to the Sunbeam Nickels -which I ran out of )...
...
Stainless Steels are just not for me...

I'm REALLY confused here. There's no such thing as Nickel HiBeams. SunBeams ARE the Nickel versions of the HiBeams. Me thinks you have SS strings on there and somehow don't know it?

 

[bassarama]

I'm REALLY confused here. There's no such thing as Nickel HiBeams. SunBeams ARE the Nickel versions of the HiBeams. Me thinks you have SS strings on there and somehow don't know it?

OOPS I am looking at the package right now and they are in effect the hex LO RIDER Nickels-hence more taut.

I was kinda thrown off by the moniker HIGH BEAM nickels used by Ken ( and Vic )

I have been using Sunbeam Nickels for over 6 years and HAVE NEVER BOUGHT A PACKAGE THAT SAID HIGH BEAM NICKELS--though of course that is what they technically are in the small print.

 

[Vic]

I was kinda thrown off by the moniker HIGH BEAM nickels used by Ken ( and Vic )

Can't speak for Ken, but I've never ever said that unless I'm simply describing what the SunBeams are to someone.

That said, the LoRider Nickels are definitely one of my very favorite Nickel string sets.

 

[rodl2005]

So what do you find to be the differences in round-core & HEX-core of these DR strings??
I must admit I've only ever used the DR Coated strings - which IIRC are round-core strings. I LIKED them too.

With the amount I sweat onstage- coated strings are preferable for me, tho I AM getting used to my set of SIT powerwounds on my AC EUT5- which have seen more gig time than ANY set of UN-coated strings I've used in years!!
Testament to a great bass IMO.

I USED to only get about 3 gigs at MOST out of a set of UNCOATED rounds, but these SIT's have been on my EUT5 for at least 7 or 8 gigs so far & altho are getting a little duller, are still sounding great.
AS I've a fair amount of NEW strings at home, I'll use these as time goes on- both coated & Uncoated.

I think Kirk recommended some SUNBEAMS for me to try on the EUT5 a while back, & I'll get around to trying some at some stage.

 

[Vic]

So what do you find to be the differences in round-core & HEX-core of these DR strings??
I must admit I've only ever used the DR Coated strings - which IIRC are round-core strings. I LIKED them too.

With the amount I sweat onstage- coated strings are preferable for me, tho I AM getting used to my set of SIT powerwounds on my AC EUT5- which have seen more gig time than ANY set of UN-coated strings I've used in years!!
Testament to a great bass IMO.

I USED to only get about 3 gigs at MOST out of a set of UNCOATED rounds, but these SIT's have been on my EUT5 for at least 7 or 8 gigs so far & altho are getting a little duller, are still sounding great.
AS I've a fair amount of NEW strings at home, I'll use these as time goes on- both coated & Uncoated.

I think Kirk recommended some SUNBEAMS for me to try on the EUT5 a while back, & I'll get around to trying some at some stage.

Ok, a few thoughts here...

The round core strings are gonna' have two significant attributes outside of tonal diffs... longer life, and slinkier feel. So if you like extra fret sizzle, or if you play with a lighter touch and/or higher action, you'll get a lot more bang for your buck with round core.

The hex core strings are gonna' be the opposite of the above. Stiffer feel (just as bassarama says), so you can set them up lower with less buzz (hence their name in the DR line "LoRider"). But they don't last as long because as soon as the corners of the core's hexagon start to wear down, the strings' windings lose coherency and the tone loses "life". Basically, with hex, you're reducing the contact space between the core and the first winding, which means it wears faster.

The other thing is tone. Compared to a hex core set, IMHO, the round core strings have a little bit less going on in the upper mids/low treble (let's say 2-3K range), and the round cores have a bit more going on up higher. In short, I LOVE round cores for slap/sizzle, but I think they lack a little bite/edge aggression for fingerstyle BY COMPARISON. Lots of things can affect that, tho... bass tone, rig, playing style, and of course prefs (yeah, the usual disclaimer list).

So as usual, it's just "the right tool for the right job" with regard to feel/tone, and if your prefs are one way, you might get longer life too.

So what about coated strings? You're correct that, at least with DR's, their coated strings are based on the HiBeams, so it's round core. The HiBeams have that extra high end, and the coating muffles that a bit, so it kinda evens it out. They do increase life from a corrosion standpoint, but if you're talking skin deposits, you still just have to clean the strings between sets for that. Finally, I've found the coating tends to start to come off, and then it's almost ironic that the coating starts to "clog" the string, and has a counterproductive result, and it also gets on your fingers and fingerboard.

Personally, I just try to keep my hands very clean, wipe my strings down a lot, and use SS strings (even though I do generally prefer the slickery feel of Nickel, and do use Nickels on some basses). A trick I use is to wash right before each set with hot soapy water. Even if you sweat, it reduces the oil content, and it's easier to clean your strings.

Anyway, IME/IMHO, hope it helps.

 

[rodl2005]

Hey THANX heaps Vic- really appreciate this! DR strings were virtually UNHEARD of here- at least to ME anyway, until the net opened up a world of info to us.

But I tried the coated strings a while back, & as I said - I liked 'em. I think MY fave coated string would probably be Elixirs followed CLOSELY by D'addario's EXP coateds.
BUT I toatally understand you when you say the caoting wears off & can 'clog' the string etc.. & i definately do NOT like them when they get 'old'.

I DO wash my hands before each set 90% of the time, & have a container with a rag soaked in alcohol, which I wipe it all down with after the gig.

All this HELPS, but IF it's a gig where there are lotsa heat producing lights, a hot environment & of course being ONSTAGE -we're up a few feet closer to the ceiling
then sweat & grime gets IN there, & save for gettng a wire brush out & cleaning the strings 'horizontally' -the 'gunk' just DOES get in there.
BUT- as I said with the AC- I'm finding I'm definately getting longer life out of a set, simply coz the BASS sounds good & it doesn't matter to me that the string isn't as bright as it was. I'd rather a slightly 'worn-in' string as opposed to a brand new string sound anyway. I suppose this is ONE reason why coated strings agree with me.
I'll definately try a set of round core DR's soon. As what you describe about them reinforces what Kirk described to me earlier, & they 'sound' like they might be good for me.
Re Stainless Steel strings, I 'went off' them a few yrs ago, when I had a set that I wasn't impressed with. I was told then(by a local store assistant) the usual plus's of them, but I found them to almost be the opposite.
They didn't SEEM brighter sounding, didn't last any longer than the regular nickel one's I'd been using & maybe from being used to nickel- I didn't really like their feel. BUT- might give them a try again soon.

I think I'll try a set or two of the SUNBEAMS soon- these are the nickel round-core DR aren't they?

Thanks again for your thoughts & info- it'll help a lot & I really appreciate it.

Regards,
Rod


QUOTE from VIC- [Ok, a few thoughts here...

The round core strings are gonna' have two significant attributes outside of tonal diffs... longer life, and slinkier feel. So if you like extra fret sizzle, or if you play with a lighter touch and/or higher action, you'll get a lot more bang for your buck with round core.

The hex core strings are gonna' be the opposite of the above. Stiffer feel (just as bassarama says), so you can set them up lower with less buzz (hence their name in the DR line "LoRider"). But they don't last as long because as soon as the corners of the core's hexagon start to wear down, the strings' windings lose coherency and the tone loses "life". Basically, with hex, you're reducing the contact space between the core and the first winding, which means it wears faster.

The other thing is tone. Compared to a hex core set, IMHO, the round core strings have a little bit less going on in the upper mids/low treble (let's say 2-3K range), and the round cores have a bit more going on up higher. In short, I LOVE round cores for slap/sizzle, but I think they lack a little bite/edge aggression for fingerstyle BY COMPARISON. Lots of things can affect that, tho... bass tone, rig, playing style, and of course prefs (yeah, the usual disclaimer list).

So as usual, it's just "the right tool for the right job" with regard to feel/tone, and if your prefs are one way, you might get longer life too.

So what about coated strings? You're correct that, at least with DR's, their coated strings are based on the HiBeams, so it's round core. The HiBeams have that extra high end, and the coating muffles that a bit, so it kinda evens it out. They do increase life from a corrosion standpoint, but if you're talking skin deposits, you still just have to clean the strings between sets for that. Finally, I've found the coating tends to start to come off, and then it's almost ironic that the coating starts to "clog" the string, and has a counterproductive result, and it also gets on your fingers and fingerboard.

Personally, I just try to keep my hands very clean, wipe my strings down a lot, and use SS strings (even though I do generally prefer the slickery feel of Nickel, and do use Nickels on some basses). A trick I use is to wash right before each set with hot soapy water. Even if you sweat, it reduces the oil content, and it's easier to clean your strings.

Anyway, IME/IMHO, hope it helps. ] QUOTE

 

[Vic]

Hey THANX heaps Vic...

No prob.

Yeah, good points on the heat, grime, ceiling proximity, cleaning and whatnot. Sometimes there's just no way to avoid killing strings. I've done it too.

Wow, yeah, your SS experiences are opposite mine, which also feel "stickier" to me, but I've gotten used to it. I do still prefer the slicker feel of the Nickels, but at least for me, I get better tone and life from SS, so I mostly use those.

And yes, you're right, the SunBeams are the Nickel round cores.

 

[KJung]

OUCH...noodling kind of stuff :scowl:

Yeah seriously though, that wasn't too bad a rendition of STELLA--not exactly a la Paul Chambers mind you swing and feel but hey tasty playing nonetheless and the chord changes were all there... A surprising number of pro basss players I know are not able to circumnavigate those changes-much less have them memorized. KUDOS to you Monsieur K !!

Now what about that BASS.

I just put a set of 45-125 Nickel Lo Riders on the LM, and at first I found them a little too taut ( compared to the Sunbeam Nickels -which I ran out of ) and after a copule of weeks and a few gigs- and the bass being ravaged by some good friends of mine at a music store recently--you know--- I've come to dig the strings now, AND the more so after hearing how sweet your ( Ken's ) LG 5 sounded.

Stainless Steels are just not for me-they sound good and slap real good-but horizontal playing is very restrictive pour moi--how does Marcus do it ?

For the record Ken it is a blessing to have a cat like you taking the time ( and MONEY ) to put up these clips on various amp/cab configs and of course your killin' machines.
In order my faves are your LM, LG and then ( if I had to ) the SADOWSKY

My friend's LG made an impressive debut yesterday also. Raves from fellow musicians and sound techs alike reported.

Yeah those ALLEVA's are the bomb--but wait a minute I see a NORDY P5 approaching in my rear view.

It's all good

Thanks! Hey, I noodle with the best of them And +1, Stella as a slow bossa is a bit strange, but that's what was on the music minus one track, so that's what I did. That bass sounds GOOD in that clip, hence I wanted to post it over here to hopefully give those who are considering one of these another data point (and that cab is off the hook amazing).

The main point is how wonderful that LG sounds. Literally flat EQ on the head and bass, and it is just perfect (same way with the LM, at least with the relatively neutral and relatively 'flat' Markbass heads). Pretty cool to just be able to plug in and play... I can go for many gigs without ever turning a knob with the A-C's and my rigs.

 

[KJung]

I'm REALLY confused here. There's no such thing as Nickel HiBeams. SunBeams ARE the Nickel versions of the HiBeams. Me thinks you have SS strings on there and somehow don't know it?

That was based on a typo above in my post... I meant to type DR Lo Rider Nickels but typed 'Hi Beam' by mistake (I fixed it).

+1 to your descriptions. The Sunbeams are just too slinky and low tension and smooth to me... kind of like the most extreme version of nickel roundwounds. However, they sure sound good, but the 'feel' of the Lo Rider Nickels is much better for me, and is actually quite close to the Hi Beam steels (i.e., the smoothness of the nickel with the slightly tighter tension hex kind of matches the vibe of the stainless steel with round core).

As soon as my stock of Hi Beams runs out, I will be using Lo Riders on both my A-C's... steels on the LM and I will continue to use the Nickels on my LG. The Hi Beams on the LM move it to sound a little more 'airy and modern' (nothing wrong with that). The Lo Rider steels move it a bit more into a more classic 70's J sound... a bit less smooth, a bit more compressed down low, and a bit more ganky and grindy in the upper mids.

 

[vision]

Sounds good Ken! Too short, I wanted it to keep going through the solo section...

 

[bassarama]

That was based on a typo above in my post... I meant to type DR Lo Rider Nickels but typed 'Hi Beam' by mistake (I fixed it).

+1 to your descriptions. The Sunbeams are just too slinky and low tension and smooth to me... kind of like the most extreme version of nickel roundwounds. However, they sure sound good, but the 'feel' of the Lo Rider Nickels is much better for me, and is actually quite close to the Hi Beam steels (i.e., the smoothness of the nickel with the slightly tighter tension hex kind of matches the vibe of the stainless steel with round core).

As soon as my stock of Hi Beams runs out, I will be using Lo Riders on both my A-C's... steels on the LM and I will continue to use the Nickels on my LG. The Hi Beams on the LM move it to sound a little more 'airy and modern' (nothing wrong with that). The Lo Rider steels move it a bit more into a more classic 70's J sound... a bit less smooth, a bit more compressed down low, and a bit more ganky and grindy in the upper mids.

I honestly made the same typo and too went back and corrected my post late last night.

I however am not going to open myself up for infinite ridicule here by saying great minds think alike--but rather-great noodlers play the same strings.

A strange coincidence indeed that we were talking the same string and calling it something else. LO RIDER NICKELS.

I apologize for confusing the TB readers here especially Vic.

I somehow knew you were alluding to Hex nickels and chimed in on that as I recently have strung my LM 5 with the same set.

Too, I notice the sound and character of my LM was overall more appealing with the SS strings that came on the bass-- BUT I just can`t play the darn things, in spite of their alluring tone.

Well I am off to noodle my way through STELLA in all 12 keys.

 

[Chef]

I have Jimmy's Stainless rounds on my LG, and I really like them!
That bass is so fat and warm by nature...and, i really like the little more top end his ss strings have. They're not at all over-bright or ganky after a brief break in period.

 

[Vic]

As soon as my stock of Hi Beams runs out, I will be using Lo Riders on both my A-C's... steels on the LM and I will continue to use the Nickels on my LG. The Hi Beams on the LM move it to sound a little more 'airy and modern' (nothing wrong with that). The Lo Rider steels move it a bit more into a more classic 70's J sound... a bit less smooth, a bit more compressed down low, and a bit more ganky and grindy in the upper mids.

I must admit, my tastes have changed as time has passed and I'm the same now. I still have a few sets of HB's, but I'll burn those and go with LR's pretty much from now on for DR strings. Both Nickel and SS. I USED to prefer the HB's over the LR's, but not any more. I wonder if it's related to my general shift more towards 34" scale basses from 35"? It is true that a longer scale will make for a bit of a tension increase as I understand it.

 

[Vic]

I apologize for confusing the TB readers here especially Vic.

Huh? No worries! I live in a constant state of confusion, so it's ok!

Too, I notice the sound and character of my LM was overall more appealing with the SS strings that came on the bass-- BUT I just can`t play the darn things, in spite of their alluring tone.

Well, FWIW, I LOVE the way the Nickels sound on my LG, and while I might still tend to favor the SS strings, there's NOTHING wrong with a great Nickel set, and as I said before, the LR's are a great set (as you already know.) It'll be interesting to me, noting your longer term love for the SunBeams, if you find yourself preferring the LR's now. If I read you correctly, that was a very recent advent.

Well I am off to noodle my way through STELLA in all 12 keys.

You have my respect.

 

[vision]

Does anyone use Fatbeams? I've never tried them, but in theory they would hit the middle ground between Hi-beams and Lo Riders, right?

I tried Lo Riders a few years back and loved the tone, but didn't care for the tension.

 

[tombowlus]

Does anyone use Fatbeams? I've never tried them, but in theory they would hit the middle ground between Hi-beams and Lo Riders, right?

I tried Lo Riders a few years back and loved the tone, but didn't care for the tension.

I have tried them, and they are indeed "fat" down low, but the mids didn't seem to be as articulate and expressive as I was getting with either Hi Beams or Lo Riders. I'm sure they will respond differently on different basses (and I only tried them on my F Bass VF5), but the Fat Beams weren't tripping my trigger. YMMV, though.

 

[KJung]

I have tried them, and they are indeed "fat" down low, but the mids didn't seem to be as articulate and expressive as I was getting with either Hi Beams or Lo Riders. I'm sure they will respond differently on different basses (and I only tried them on my F Bass VF5), but the Fat Beams weren't tripping my trigger. YMMV, though.

+1 Kind of like deeper voiced Hi Beams, which is definitely 'too much of a good thing' for me personally.