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Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 21)

"Graphic designer....someone with those techniques...to manipulate a photo..."
Yeah, he went after Addison...no disrespect to Ricksy or anyone else who defended Jimmy's post as I am sure your intentions were good...but there is no question he went after him.
Jimmy's response was unprofessional, demeaning, pompous, and disrespectful. He took no responsibility at all for HIS product which was shipped to HIS customer. He only offered a refund due to the reaction to Addison s thread.
It is sad...he could have handled HIS customers concerns with dignity and class and turned something negative into something positive...
I, for one, would never do business with this man.
 
I can't fathom how that bass left the line most of the other ac basses I've seen here left. I actually was considering saving up for one. I think I'll send my dollars to someone who won't call me a liar and photoshopper. It seems buying an ac is a gamble, one that I certainly won't be making now.
 
Ill start out by saying I'm glad that Addison is getting refunded and things seem to be getting solved- that being said, I want to clarify the "photo doctoring" comment in Jimmy's post, as it was I that noticed and mentioned it to him- the point was never that it was photoshoped/doctored- nor did it pertain to the body. It was only to the fingerboard, and how, when you shoot flash closeup onto it it will always show imperfections beyond what the eye usually sees- just like paint swirls on a car, or lint on clothes.... What was meant to be expressed is that IF or IF NOT there was flaws on the board, it's probably not the fairest way to shoot the board. Natural light shows what you really see. Ill say again- I'm not saying he's lying, cheating, tweaking photos- from the photos it looks bad! But the way it was shot sure helps it to look that way. Here's and example of the exact same board with and without flash big difference! View attachment 355817View attachment 355818

Hopefully I explained that correctly- actually not looking for more fight- just want people to understand what was meant by that- as it seems it was kinda misunderstood-

Let's be fair, given what Jimmy typed, he didn't just "misunderstand" what you claim you told him above. Rather, he took "it's not a fair way to show the board" to "Addison has used his computer skills to doctor these photos." When you get up into the realm of a $5000 instrument, most consumers are going to hold that instrument, and the luthier behind it to a high standard. As was stated above, that instrument should be able to be photographed in ANY light and still look good. Sure, you might see a little more dust, but the flash isn't going to create any issues that aren't there.

For those that helped Jimmy craft his response, I'd say this: If my goal was to take this matter and make it worse, then this is the exact response I would have written. From the insinuations of photo doctoring, to the bizarre "like a man" comment, it just couldn't have been any worse. I'm certainly glad that Addison is getting his money back, and I hope that this instrument gets the dramatic attention it deserves before it gets sold again.

I don't begin to pretend that this will hurt Jimmy's business overall. Given his substantial backlog and his "no refund" policy, this will probably blow over before he has to worry about losing jobs. Within a few months, his most ardent supporters will have dismissed this complaint (and the several others, including my own) as the rantings of amateur players with an axe to grind against high end luthiers. If he's willing to learn from this incident and improve the quality of ALL of the basses that leave his shop, then it will probably be nothing more than a blip on his radar.
 
Someone in the other said said something along the lines of the guy doesn't personally inspect the instrument before it ships out and he shouldn't have to? I'm guessing that the parts involved don't total $5000, and a lot of that cost is labor and brand, right? I can understand if Squiers coming out of Indonesia aren't gone over with a fine tooth comb before they leave the factory, but they don't cost as much as a decent used car.
 
As we've had a number of visitors to the club thread let me point out AC is a small shop and basses are made by him not employees. His wife winds pickups and almost everything but the bridge and tuners are made in house.

The tremendous back log of orders is due to the fact that he puts out a superb instrument and doesn't trust an hourly employee enough to put out instruments to his standard.

I'm not speculating or casting judgment on the concerned buyer or Jimmy just want to make sure everyone is clear that some kid doesn't send an instrument out the door without Jimmy seeing it. Or that these instruments based on the man hours involved in building them is some inflated price.

Even more so the vast majority of AC owners are everyday players are spending hard earned dollars and waiting almost two years to get it.

I can't blame anyone who has a bad taste in their mouth after this recent event but I still believe Jimmy puts out the best Fender style 5 string bass bar none.
 
Someone mentioned in the other thread, that it would be a "lose/lose" situation, should Jimmy respond on TB. Now that he has responded, it has become just that, "lose/lose". He should have handled all of this privately. Hind sight is 20/20.

I've read almost the entire thread (can't believe that:confused:)
and will come to his defense. I own an AC. It's an absolute killer bass. I bought it used here on TB, but have spoken to Jimmy on the phone and via email. I found him to be professional, pleasant, clear and generally a "nice guy".

Now, regarding the Jimmy bashing that has spilled into this thread, it should stop. The issue is being resolved and both parties should move on. This thread is and should be for those of us who continue to play, support and value Jimmy and his instruments. The rest of you should move on as well. Take your bitchin' and complainin' elsewhere.:D
 
Addison was right to post the issues because:

1) Jimmy would never have made it right otherwise.
2) He gave other potential buyers a fair warning.

There are plenty of high-end boutique builders to choose from. Many of them are genuinely nice people who understand how competitive this business is and how much reputation matters in the market for premium handmade goods.

It may be that Jimmy is a nice guy (I don't know him) but his response was apparently written while angry. Happens to all of us. He should be given another chance to take that response back and offer a new one showing a better side of himself.
 
Someone mentioned in the other thread, that it would be a "lose/lose" situation, should Jimmy respond on TB. Now that he has responded, it has become just that, "lose/lose". He should have handled all of this privately.
That was me... multiple times.

I feel for both parties in this case, but Jimmy's response, and the responses I've seen (and fully expected) to it are a totally perfect example of why I said what I said. Honestly, even if he'd kept a lid on his emotions and left out all the editorial, it really wouldn't have gone much, if any, better. I'm absolutely positive about that, and would wager a lot of hard earned money on it.

*sigh*
 
That was me... multiple times.

I feel for both parties in this case, but Jimmy's response, and the responses I've seen (and fully expected) to it are a totally perfect example of why I said what I said. Honestly, even if he'd kept a lid on his emotions and left out all the editorial, it really wouldn't have gone much, if any, better. I'm absolutely positive about that, and would wager a lot of hard earned money on it.

*sigh*

+1
 
That was me... multiple times.

I feel for both parties in this case, but Jimmy's response, and the responses I've seen (and fully expected) to it are a totally perfect example of why I said what I said. Honestly, even if he'd kept a lid on his emotions and left out all the editorial, it really wouldn't have gone much, if any, better. I'm absolutely positive about that, and would wager a lot of hard earned money on it.

*sigh*


It wouldn't have gone MUCH better, but I think there would be far fewer people bashing Jimmy had he responded the way fusionbassed mentioned last page:

"This is a rare occurrence. I don't know what happened, you know I have scores of satisfied customers. I do have a no returns policy but I will waive it in this instance and return Addison's money upon receipt of the bass. I want everyone to know that I stand by my reputation of making good products and trying to make it right. If a dog got out of my shop, its my fault and I'll work hard to make sure this doesn't happen again."

I know I for one would be giving him props for handling it like a pro (despite the shoddy bass leaving his shop). Oh well, what's done is done...
 
The photo manipulation charges were utterly bogus and under-handed. It doesn't take a jewelers loupe to tell that bass was a mess. That said, I suspect that AC will not lose that many customers because I'd wager most who know of this situation are people like me - people who are likely never going to spend $5k+ on a bass guitar in the first place. I'm just glad Addison is going to get his money back.
 
From my experience with Jimmy, he is to arrogant to admit that he made a mistake.
He refund Addison ONLY & I repeat ONLY because this went to TalkBass, otherwise Addison will never get his money back.
He is not a shame to accuse Addison for the pics...
I'll never deal with him again the man is a total dick..
 
That was me... multiple times.

I feel for both parties in this case, but Jimmy's response, and the responses I've seen (and fully expected) to it are a totally perfect example of why I said what I said. Honestly, even if he'd kept a lid on his emotions and left out all the editorial, it really wouldn't have gone much, if any, better. I'm absolutely positive about that, and would wager a lot of hard earned money on it.

*sigh*

I don't agree, if he had just owned up to the errors, or even just told us he was going to allow the return and said nothing else, I would have been one of the first and among many, I'm sure, who would have praised him for simply doing the right thing.

Instead, he solidified the mob's negative opinions.

Now it's too late. He can't take it back.
 
On a $5000 instrument I feel that "somebody" better inspect that instrument! And whoever Jimmy assigns that responsibility to he (Jimmy) better stand behind their work or lack there of in this case!

Quoate: "I want him to please send the bass back for a full refund"... At the end of the day this" seems" to resolve the issue. But it was offered after making excuses, after making a few insinuations and as a last begrudged resort. I'm sure the OP is happy to get his $$$ back. But, it doesn't do anything for Jimmy in terms of positive customer service. This was a chance to shine a very bright light on excellent customer service practices but he fell short.
 
+1 Joel's newest LM is def the golden child of his collection. That thing is just DAMN.

I just remembered that my TB LM5 was also a "mistake" bass and I bought it on the cheap from Jimmy. He wouldn't specify what the mistake was, and other than some kind of blocky looking cutaways (similar to this "disaster bass" but no where near as bad) I couldn't physically tell that anything was wrong. Maybe he knew he had installed the truss incorrectly and that's why he's been "fixing" my neck for free for the last 9 months, but either way, this AC has been my favorite of my 3 and the only one I actually have kept. I really hope Jimmy does the right thing with this. Reading the whole story will definitely put a bad taste in anybody's mouth!

When I have received a build from Jimmy I always feed-back anything I find wrong...noit to beat up on the guy, but to give an honest assessment from which (hopefully) production/QA tweaks can be made to eliminate any reoccurance. He has always offered resonable solutions and, I hope, accepted the critique in the sprirt that it was intended. My current AC TB LM5 KILLS! (which I really learned to appreciate after improving my set-up skills for my own touch...almost sold it...MISTAKE!) but thats besides the point.

Dude, mistake bass or no, a defective neck, NINE MONTHS AND COUNTING...what message does that send to any potetial buyer if they find a problem? I like Jimmy, root for him, in fact, but business is business and thats just bad business. And to Naruds point, calling any build with defects 'perfect' (not that you did here, but others have) when it is not, only perpetuates the flaws instead of reducing them. I mean, if one doesn't mind an imperfection, fine, but that does not mean it isn't there or not a problem to be fed back.

To quote Ken "Jimmy [definitely] needs a Jason"
 
Hey guys...

I know the topic is still hot and everything, but I do honestly think everyone should try to make an effort to get back to some normalcy... at least in this thread.

There are plenty of people out there with killer A-C basses that they love, and they should be able to come to this thread and talk freely about it, without feeling like they need to defend themselves.

Again... I sincerely appreciate the support coming from both on and off the board, but, without sounding too sappy, I think it's important to begin the "healing phase" of the process.

Cheers.
 
I am not owning an AC bass - but I went through the great experience of customer service offered by Roger Sadowsky and his crew, and I am a working at a large service-focused company. I know a thing or two about treating customers, the pitfalls involved and how to 'behave' when somebody is unhappy with the things that my company does.

I think this is what I learned so far:
There is no natural link between the talent to build great instruments and the ability to apply rigorous quality control and customer focus. We seemingly just see a good example for that. Great if you are able to build perfect basses. But you need to invest an extraordinary amount of energy and focus in order to keep up good quality each and every time you ship an instrument. This is the hard part: Not building some good basses, but making sure that each and every instrument is as close to perfection as possible. And the funny thing: The same is true for customer interaction.

If you really treat every customer as if he/she was the very first customer of your small start-up business, you probably are doing the right thing. The saying goes that you've got no second chance to make a first impression. Now, especially for the boutique bass builder (but also for every service provider), every customer, even after a long track record of business successes, is as important as the first one.
If you have a sound business judgement, you know that it's worth nothing to "be right". Fix your customers problem. Or refund without complaint. Never be unfair or accuse, because nobody is interested in that - but every potential customer really wants to know how you treat the other, now unsatisfied, unhappy, complaining customer.

The fundamental misunderstanding of Jimmy, imho, was that he thought the public here on talkbass would be in the position of a somewhat "objective judge".
Wrong.
The public interest here was focused on another thing: "What if I was the unhappy customer? What would it feel like to be in his shoes?"

And what a great opportunity this would have been for Jimmy to build up great reputation by simply fixing things, refunding, and being a really nice partner to deal with.
But instead, Jimmy imho stated that the complaint was not justified, that the complaining person might have been manipulating pictures, and that the customer was not right.

Bad idea, because it gives me a vivid impression what could happen if I once became an unhappy customer of AC. I guess that I'd rather not be a customer at all. No, thanks, too risky.

It does not matter what "really" happened. All that matters is the tonality that Jimmy used for his reply. Nobody cares if he was "objectively" right or wrong. All that matters is that he communicated in a very unprofessional way just when it would have done wonders to simply let go of "being right". Solve your customers problem, and don't make the customer look bad (in public or in the mirror). Never try to be right, except in front of a judge (and even there, it's not always the best idea)

Building skills, energy and drive to constantly achieve great quality, and management / customer care / communication skills simply do not correlate automatically.
We knew that, now we know even better.

Do I believe that most AC basses are great instruments? Sure.
Do I believe that AC needs to re-think the way they treat unhappy customers? You bet.

It takes years to build up credibility, and only hours and a message or two to severely damage it. How sad.