Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 21)

[Fuzzbass]

I don't agree, if he had just owned up to the errors, or even just told us he was going to allow the return and said nothing else, I would have been one of the first and among many, I'm sure, who would have praised him for simply doing the right thing.

Mostly agreed. If Jimmy had owned up to being, say, "careless" in his representation of the instrument, given a sincere apology, and of course the full refund, I would likewise have praised him.

I would have been far less impressed with a full refund with no explanation.

But even though I offered a counterpoint, I mostly agreed with Vic. That is, not many in any profession have the eloquence of a Roger Sadowsky. The end result here is complete PR fail. The insinuations about Chris were inexcusable, and to say that the many flaws in the instrument were tricks of the light insults our intelligence.

 

[nukes_da_bass]

I'm glad Addison is getting his refund. I just saw him post about healing and forgiveness- maybe the hate mob needs to take his advice.
Then again, TB is not particularly forgiving- ask Ken Smith, Jeff Berlin, a few others.
I guess one shouldn't expect what is not possible- for the vibe of something as big as TB to become something it could not.
By the way, i wonder how many basses Ken Smith has sold since he was banned from this site? My guess is thousands lol. Despite the white hot hatred that exists here for him which doesnt seem to affect him in the least.

Mr. Coppolo will sell basses- probably lost a few potential customers This week forever- but the reputation of 98% of his basses is stellar.

I, for one, have ZERO expectations of rational behavior out of an artist or artisan- right brain creatives are seldom socially balanced people. Jimmy's post was bad, but its what i would have expected after people blew up his email and FB page, which was also poor behavior.
Addison is the winner- he was vindicated (or will be) by $5000.00.

 

[zortation]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Fuzzbass]

I am a boutique bass customer, purchases include Lull, MTD USA, numerous Sadowskys... many of you are in the Sadowsky club and already know this. Anyway, AC basses have been high on my radar. I have a fancy Nordstrand on order, ETA October, so an AC would not be in my budget this year, but maybe next.

I have not played an AC bass, and have only seen one in person, briefly. They've been on my radar based on glowing reviews from trusted, experienced TBers who often say "AC is the boutique to buy if you want the vintage Fender sound". Like a number of you, I thought it would be great to own both AC and Sadowsky.

I didn't come here to the AC club to pile on. As Chris said, there are wonderful AC instruments, and it's safe to assume that most if not all of you in the AC club own one or more. However I'm sorry to say that AC is no longer on my radar. I'm sure the company will do fine without my business. But given my experience with Darrin Huff, I'm not about to take another chance with a major purchase. I'll stick with Sadowsky, or maybe get a second Nordy if it meets my expectations (and I have confidence that it will).

I'm delighted that Chris is getting his refund. Chris, thank you again for having the courage to post, and I'm very happy to have found your YouTube channel in the process. Again, you're a helluva bassist, and I especially love the Faith No More tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFJFT5H4F94

 

[GregC]

Someone mentioned in the other thread, that it would be a "lose/lose" situation, should Jimmy respond on TB. Now that he has responded, it has become just that, "lose/lose". He should have handled all of this privately. Hind sight is 20/20.

I've read almost the entire thread (can't believe that)
and will come to his defense. I own an AC. It's an absolute killer bass. I bought it used here on TB, but have spoken to Jimmy on the phone and via email. I found him to be professional, pleasant, clear and generally a "nice guy".

Now, regarding the Jimmy bashing that has spilled into this thread, it should stop. The issue is being resolved and both parties should move on. This thread is and should be for those of us who continue to play, support and value Jimmy and his instruments. The rest of you should move on as well. Take your bitchin' and complainin' elsewhere.

To be fair, the "bashing" begins with post 61 by Mr. Coppolo. Hard not to expect a strong reaction after that.

Now that Addison has weighed in and once again taken the high road, though, it's probably time to let things lie.

 

[vision]

By the way, i wonder how many basses Ken Smith has sold since he was banned from this site? My guess is thousands lol. Despite the white hot hatred that exists here for him which doesnt seem to affect him in the least.

I don't think Ken Smith is a good example...TB users make up a TINY percentage of his customers. He has a large operation, not a one man shop, and does way more sales than Jimmy. He could never sell another bass to a TBer and keep rolling along without a problem. Jimmy has non TB customers but a good chunk of the people that know about him came from Talkbass. He's a much smaller one man operation and if he never sold another bass to a TBer I'd think that would be a much more noticeable affect.

Also AFAIK Ken wasn't banned for quality/customer service issues, but because of how abrasive he was on the forum. Yeah there may be some guys that wouldn't buy a Smith because of his personality, but that's a different thing from what we're seeing here.

 

[GregC]

I don't think Ken Smith is a good example...TB users make up a TINY percentage of his customers. He has a large operation, not a one man shop, and does way more sales than Jimmy. He could never sell another bass to a TBer and keep rolling along without a problem. Jimmy has non TB customers but a good chunk of the people that know about him came from Talkbass. He's a much smaller one man operation and if he never sold another bass to a TBer I'd think that would be a much more noticeable affect.

Also AFAIK Ken wasn't banned for quality/customer service issues, but because of how abrasive he was on the forum. Yeah there may be some guys that wouldn't buy a Smith because of his personality, but that's a different thing from what we're seeing here.

+1. The difference here is Ken Smith was a big name in bass building WAY before TB.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Addison is the winner- he was vindicated (or will be) by $5000.00.

Winner? Actually, Chris rolled the dice and lost big time. He was very lucky to get the refund.

It's wearisome when TalkBass is blamed. Sure, there are bad apples here, just as there are everywhere else on earth. But the blowup is Jimmy's responsibility. It could have been avoided if he'd given the well deserved refund up front.

 

[porterbass]

Does anyone know where I submit my application for an AC bass to determine if my hands are okay and not the wrong hands...and that I might be the right player and have the right home to have the privilege to own and play Jimmy Coppola's basses?

I just reread Jimmy Coppola's post. Really sad in the way he handled this. I had planned on purchasing an Alleva-Coppola bass this year, in fact I was going to purchase another next year too. I wanted a both a Jazz style and an 81009 '51 p-bass style. There is no way I would ever consider purchasing one now.

Huge respect to Addison for how you handled this and your composure...sorry you had to go through this, glad you are getting your $$ refunded. Thank you for taking the time to let us know about this.

 

[thebassbuilder]

I am glad to see Addison getting a refund for his bass but like others the response Jimmy gave was crap. To me the fingerboard was the least of the problems (Glue only). The body contours on the back are what get me. What is under the paint tells the story for me. Also the paint job at the headstock looks like crap. That is by no way normal player ware. So I do not understand how that was not even mentioned when those are the things that cannot be altered by Addison. And for any builder to not give a money back guarenty, is crazy even for a demo. Unless very detailed pictures were sent in advance showing the bass from every angle and also a warrenty to fix any issues the bass may have.

Also I do not know how anyone can pay this much for a bass in the first place, sorry for all you AC owners but to pay $5k for a Jazz Bass nock off just seems crazy, especially when you can buy a US model Jazz with the same wood combos and have every part changed and it set up by someone or PLEK'd for perfect playability. As I said sorry for any of you that have paid that much for a bass, this is only my thoughts on it and not to offend anyone nor Jimmy for getting that much for his basses.

Just had to rant since they closed down Addison's post for some reason.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Does anyone know where I submit my application for an AC bass to determine if my hands are okay and not the wrong hands...

If Chris Addison's hands are wrong, then I wouldn't want to be right. As I keep saying he's a helluva bassist.

Trying to keep things positive here.

 

[vision]

Also I do not know how anyone can pay this much for a bass in the first place, sorry for all you AC owners but to pay $5k for a Jazz Bass nock off just seems crazy, especially when you can buy a US model Jazz with the same wood combos and have every part changed and it set up by someone or PLEK'd for perfect playability.

Just a quick note on the price - a typical AC doesn't cost that much. That model had exotic woods which are a pretty big upgrade cost for AC's. But you can get a 5 string jazz (LM5, LG5) from AC for around the same base cost as other boutique jazz builders (mid 3k range).

 

[KJung]

I am glad to see Addison getting a refund for his bass but like others the response Jimmy gave was crap. To me the fingerboard was the least of the problems (Glue only). The body contours on the back are what get me. What is under the paint tells the story for me. Also the paint job at the headstock looks like crap. That is by no way normal player ware. So I do not understand how that was not even mentioned when those are the things that cannot be altered by Addison. And for any builder to not give a money back guarenty, is crazy even for a demo. Unless very detailed pictures were sent in advance showing the bass from every angle and also a warrenty to fix any issues the bass may have.

Also I do not know how anyone can pay this much for a bass in the first place, sorry for all you AC owners but to pay $5k for a Jazz Bass nock off just seems crazy, especially when you can buy a US model Jazz with the same wood combos and have every part changed and it set up by someone or PLEK'd for perfect playability. As I said sorry for any of you that have paid that much for a bass, this is only my thoughts on it and not to offend anyone nor Jimmy for getting that much for his basses.

Just had to rant since they closed down Addison's post for some reason.

Just to be fair, regarding the price in general, that spalted body, etc. put a premium on the price. A more 'standard' A-C J is, I believe, less... about the same price as, for example, Sadowsky NYC's (or less, in some cases, and more in other cases, depending on options, etc.).

The 'price' deal gets circular... why pay $10,000 for a Fodera when you can get a perfectly nice Peavey Cirrus that plays great and looks fancy for $1,700 It is difficult to place a 'general price/value ratio' on a product for all people. My A-C LM5 is by far, the most wonderful instrument I've ever owned, although I purchased mine many years ago when it was priced less than, for example, the Sadowsky NYC. (of course, this has nothing to do with the 'problem bass', which is a different and unfortunate topic).

My suggestion is (regarding all high priced boutique basses) that if you can't understand why anyone would pay that much for a bass, stick to the Fender threads. Nothing wrong with that, and they are very good instruments.

 

[mothra2]

Just to be fair, regarding the price in general, that spalted body, etc. put a premium on the price. A more 'standard' A-C J is, I believe, less... about the same price as, for example, Sadowsky NYC's (or less, in some cases, and more in other cases, depending on options, etc.).

The 'price' deal gets circular... why pay $10,000 for a Fodera when you can get a perfectly nice Peavey Cirrus that plays great and looks fancy for $1,700 It is difficult to place a 'general price/value ratio' on a product for all people. My A-C LM5 is by far, the most wonderful instrument I've ever owned, although I purchased mine many years ago when it was priced less than, for example, the Sadowsky NYC. (of course, this has nothing to do with the 'problem bass', which is a different and unfortunate topic).

My suggestion is (regarding all high priced boutique basses) that if you can't understand why anyone would pay that much for a bass, stick to the Fender threads. Nothing wrong with that, and they are very good instruments.

+1 ... and those upper tier 2012/2013 Fender 4's really are that good!!!

 

[jbossolo]

AC will not lose that many customers because I'd wager most who know of this situation are people like me - people who are likely never going to spend $5k+ on a bass guitar in the first place.

I tend to agree. However, as someone who can, and HAS spent that much on musical equipment, I'll add myself to the growing list of people (at least ten have said so already on this thread) who would NEVER deal with this clown. Who the hell does he think he is?

 

[Vic]

One last very general comment. I have MANY MANY years in customer service (global management at a previous company, everything from basic sales support to tech support/customer service and even deep technical training).

It's a FACT that when a scenario gets to where this one got, there is no chance for a graceful exit. The absolute best possible scenario... or rather, least negative... is to resolve the situation as quietly as possible and move on as fast as you can.

As has already been proven here since my last post, anything said will just encourage more irritation. "Anything you say can and will be used against you...."... there's a good reason that comment is in the Miranda Rights.

Just trust me on this.

If you still choose to disagree with me, that's cool, but I think I've already been proven correct a few times here.

 

[mothra2]

I want your LG so I'll agree with you.

 

[boristhespider9]

I'm a Lakland USA guy and have never desired an AC.

All I want to say is that the now-closed thread and the lingering discussion on this thread is undoubtedly the MOST FUN I'VE HAD ON TB IN LONG TIME!!

 

[vpermana]

41 pages still not enough?
M O V E ON!

has there been any Ash body rosewood combination from AC?

 

[mothra2]

41 pages still not enough?
M O V E ON!

has there been any Ash body rosewood combination from AC?

Yup