Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 7)

[peterpalmieri]

It should be worth mentioning I may be the sole Club AC member attending this weekends NYC GTG, I'll be towing in my LG5 & KBP5 along with my JO4. Unfortunately my LM5 won't be ready for months.

Any of you guys planning on attending?

 

[GRoberts]

Yeah, as Ken says, he only does single-coils. HOWEVER, not all SC's are created equal, and while I do like Nordstrand pickups a lot, I do agree they tend to be noisier than some others, and Jimmy's SC's are among the quieter SC's I've played.

That said, SC noise will typically not be a hiss. It'll be a buzz or hum (at 60Hz, to be exact... at least here in the USA ). Had you not said you solved it by blending the pickups, I wouldn't be as confused as I am now. Hiss type noises are most typically from gain stages... especially those with EQ. Oh well. FWIW anyway.

Hiss was probably the wrong term. It was a high frequency hum I heard in the headphones. As history has shown, blending the two single coil PU's equally (diming both of them) made it quiet.

 

[KJung]

Hiss was probably the wrong term. It was a high frequency hum I heard in the headphones. As history has shown, blending the two single coil PU's equally (diming both of them) made it quiet.

+1 Just try blending just EVER so slightly off center next time (I'm talking about less that 5%). You will find that 'sweet spot' which will give you 80% of the solo pickup tone with only 10% of the noise. After I while, you will get pretty good at doing it 'on the fly' on a gig.

 

[Smallequestrian]

I have not. I've played them on a few other basses at GTG's and didn't dig the feel (a bit loose).

+1

I've played them on other basses and didn't dig them. I'd much rather use the LR nickels. The slinkiness of the HB's works ok for me because (as Ken said) SS is a bit stiffer than nickel... or at least it seems that way to me. So a slinkier core and a slinkier metal combined (SB's) is just too much for me.

This string stuff confuses me, thankfully I know what I like so its not too big of a deal. I guess I don't understand how one percieves the Sunbeams to be a bit loose, but the Highbeams to be playable. The Sunbeams have more tension than the Highbeams. I tried a set of HighBeams and it was way too loose to deal with. Currently have the Sunbeams on the Big AL and Nickel Low Riders on the Skjold and I don't notice just a huge difference in feel between the SS and the Nickel Low Riders.

I guess what confuses me, is what you guys are referring to when you mention slinkiness vs. stiffness, I don't really understand the difference when phrased like Vic did above.

 

[KJung]

This string stuff confuses me, thankfully I know what I like so its not too big of a deal. I guess I don't understand how one percieves the Sunbeams to be a bit loose, but the Highbeams to be playable. The Sunbeams have more tension than the Highbeams. I tried a set of HighBeams and it was way too loose to deal with. Currently have the Sunbeams on the Big AL and Nickel Low Riders on the Skjold and I don't notice just a huge difference in feel between the SS and the Nickel Low Riders.

I guess what confuses me, is what you guys are referring to when you mention slinkiness vs. stiffness, I don't really understand the difference when phrased like Vic did above.

I found the Sunbeams to be 'looser' than the Hi Beams, but both those strings are on the 'low tension' end of the scale for me, and the difference isn't 'night and day' between them.

Vic's 'slinkiness', I assume, is the 'smoothness' of the string to the finger. So, Rotosound Swing 66's or whatever the classic Roto roundwounds are called, would be at the 'least slinky' end of the continuum (they feel like raw wire on your fingers) versus, for example, the Hi Beams, which are so smooth to me to almost feel like nickels (which, in general, feel much smoother than SS strings).

Stiffness according to the way I use the term, is the literal tension of the string (i.e., how much it gives when you lay into it). The Hi Beams are at the 'low end' of that stiffness scale to me for SS strings. The Sadowsky's, as an example, feel much 'tighter' physically, as do the Lo Rider steels (if you equate the gauges).

IMO... pretty subtle stuff. I think you have the right idea... find a string that feels/sounds good, play it, and don't talk about it as much as I do

 

[Vic]

This string stuff confuses me, thankfully I know what I like so its not too big of a deal. I guess I don't understand how one percieves the Sunbeams to be a bit loose, but the Highbeams to be playable. The Sunbeams have more tension than the Highbeams. I tried a set of HighBeams and it was way too loose to deal with. Currently have the Sunbeams on the Big AL and Nickel Low Riders on the Skjold and I don't notice just a huge difference in feel between the SS and the Nickel Low Riders.

I guess what confuses me, is what you guys are referring to when you mention slinkiness vs. stiffness, I don't really understand the difference when phrased like Vic did above.

So do I have it backwards? You feel that, within the same string type, nickel feels stiffer than stainless steel? Hmmm, I always felt the opposite, but I can try again. I have to admit its been a while since I really spent time with nickel strings.

Regarding tension, stiffness, slinkiness, etc, at the end of the day what I'm talking about is how flexible the string is. How much fret sizzle/buzz I'm gonna get at a certain action height.

I try to avoid using the term tension, because I think that can be misleading. I'm not so sure it's as simple as higher tension means a string that feels stiffer to our fingers or flexes less in rotation. I think material flexibility matters too much to say that, which means we can't TRULY gauge tension simply by how stiff strings feel to our fingers. I seem to recall a huge derail on that in another thread a long time ago and really, I think all that matters to us players is feel and fret interaction at our preferred setup levels.

 

[Vic]

Vic's 'slinkiness', I assume, is the 'smoothness' of the string to the finger.

Nope. Slinkiness is flexibility. Just like the slinky spring toy. I use slickery or slippery, or something like that to describe how easy it is to slide on the string.

 

[Smallequestrian]

So do I have it backwards? You feel that, within the same string type, nickel feels stiffer than stainless steel? Hmmm, I always felt the opposite, but I can try again. I have to admit its been a while since I really spent time with nickel strings.

Regarding tension, stiffness, slinkiness, etc, at the end of the day what I'm talking about is how flexible the string is. How much fret sizzle/buzz I'm gonna get at a certain action height.

I try to avoid using the term tension, because I think that can be misleading. I'm not so sure it's as simple as higher tension means a string that feels stiffer to our fingers or flexes less in rotation. I think material flexibility matters too much to say that, which means we can't TRULY gauge tension simply by how stiff strings feel to our fingers. I seem to recall a huge derail on that in another thread a long time ago and really, I think all that matters to us players is feel and fret interaction at our preferred setup levels.

I think the SS LR's were a bit tighter than the Nickel ones, but other than LowRiders, I don't think I've played a "matched" set of strings were one was SS and one was Nickel, so I couldn't give you a general theory.

Of course DR doesn't tell you the tension measurements so a lot of the assumptions out there, mine included, are very unscientific.I have pretty light technique though, and couldn't deal with the High beams whereas the Sunbeams seem to be in the middle between the Lowriders and HBs as far as stiffness goes. But if you read the DR copy, it makes it sound like the HighBeams and the Sunbeams use the same round core...Eh...who knows...

In case you missed it, Ed Friedland did a cool comparison with clips of all the DR strings for BassEmporium
Invalid Link Removed

 

[KJung]

I think the SS LR's were a bit tighter than the Nickel ones, but other than LowRiders, I don't think I've played a "matched" set of strings were one was SS and one was Nickel, so I couldn't give you a general theory.

Of course DR doesn't tell you the tension measurements so a lot of the assumptions out there, mine included, are very unscientific.I have pretty light technique though, and couldn't deal with the High beams whereas the Sunbeams seem to be in the middle between the Lowriders and HBs as far as stiffness goes. But if you read the DR copy, it makes it sound like the HighBeams and the Sunbeams use the same round core...Eh...who knows...

In case you missed it, Ed Friedland did a cool comparison with clips of all the DR strings for BassEmporium
Invalid Link Removed

Ed's descriptions of both the tone and feel of the various DR's are very close to what I've experienced.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I think the SS LR's were a bit tighter than the Nickel ones, but other than LowRiders, I don't think I've played a "matched" set of strings were one was SS and one was Nickel, so I couldn't give you a general theory.

Of course DR doesn't tell you the tension measurements so a lot of the assumptions out there, mine included, are very unscientific.I have pretty light technique though, and couldn't deal with the High beams whereas the Sunbeams seem to be in the middle between the Lowriders and HBs as far as stiffness goes. But if you read the DR copy, it makes it sound like the HighBeams and the Sunbeams use the same round core...Eh...who knows...

In case you missed it, Ed Friedland did a cool comparison with clips of all the DR strings for BassEmporium
Invalid Link Removed

Interesting thanks for the info

 

[Vic]

...I have pretty light technique though, and couldn't deal with the High beams whereas the Sunbeams seem to be in the middle between the Lowriders and HBs as far as stiffness goes. But if you read the DR copy, it makes it sound like the HighBeams and the Sunbeams use the same round core...

They do! The SB's are the nickel version of the HB's, also based on a round core! That's why your results seem confusing to me.

Ed's descriptions of both the tone and feel of the various DR's are very close to what I've experienced.

+1

Except on point, he doesn't compare the HB's to the SB's. He instead compares each one to the hex core stuff. However, if we can extrapolate from the LR nickel vs SS comments, the SB's should be less stiff feeling just as the nickel LR's were less stiff than the SS ones. This parallels my experiences, at least.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

In case you missed it, Ed Friedland did a cool comparison with clips of all the DR strings for BassEmporium
Invalid Link Removed

I found my experiences with nickel lo-riders, lo-ridders, and hi-beams very similar, but I found two things interesting: 1) He says nickels are louder than steels, something I have never found true 2) He says lo-riders are scooped, but I have never found them to be the slightest bit scooped. In fact, I think they have a punchy, forward midrange.

 

[Vic]

I found my experiences with nickel lo-riders, lo-ridders, and hi-beams very similar, but I found two things interesting: 1) He says nickels are louder than steels, something I have never found true 2) He says lo-riders are scooped, but I have never found them to be the slightest bit scooped. In fact, I think they have a punchy, forward midrange.

Really? I thought he was just saying the SS's were scooped compared to nickels... not LR's in general. I haven't directly A/B'd recently, but I do know I've read several times from others that nickels should be louder since they have better magnetic properties than SS, which I'm pretty sure is true.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

Really? I thought he was just saying the SS's were scooped compared to nickels... not LR's in general. I haven't directly A/B'd recently, but I do know I've read several times from others that nickels should be louder since they have better magnetic properties than SS, which I'm pretty sure is true.

I might have misinterpreted him: "Compared to it's nickel counterpart, the stainless LoRider has a more pronounced low end, in part due to the scoop in the midrange response—a quality that is very obvious from the first notes of the fingerstyle sample."

Also, he doesn't discuss the tonal differences between the lo-riders and hi-beams, which are there IME.

 

[GRoberts]

I have come full circle. I played Roundwounds for years. HiBeams most recently. But I am now back on Nickels. But that's because, as Ken pointed out, Nickels work really well on an Alder/Rosewood bass complimenting it's overall, old school vintage vibe. That is not to say SS strings don't also work great. But I find the tonality to be quite different and I like the more classic vintage tone I get with Nickels on Alder/Rosewood.

I also really like Sunbeams and don't feel their tension as being too far off from Hibeams. The fact that my set up remained close to the same regardless of using Hibeams or Sunbeams tells me the tension must be in the same ballpark.

That doesn't mean they don't 'feel' different. Certainly Nickels are smoother and don't have the sticky stainless feeling. But as for tension? I just don't know if Nickels or Stainless in the same version (i.e. both HiBeams) could be that far from each other. I wonder if the difference you guys are noting is not much more than stainless steel stickness? Not sayin ...just askin.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

I have come full circle. I played Roundwounds for years. HiBeams most recently. But I am now back on Nickels. But that's because, as Ken pointed out, Nickels work really well on an Alder/Rosewood bass complimenting it's overall, old school vintage vibe. That is not to say SS strings don't also work great. But I find the tonality to be quite different and I like the more classic vintage tone I get with Nickels on Alder/Rosewood.

I also really like Sunbeams and don't feel their tension as being too far off from Hibeams. The fact that my set up remained close to the same regardless of using Hibeams or Sunbeams tells me the tension must be in the same ballpark.

That doesn't mean they don't 'feel' different. Certainly Nickels are smoother and don't have the sticky stainless feeling. But as for tension? I just don't know if Nickels or Stainless in the same version (i.e. both HiBeams) could be that far from each other. I wonder if the difference you guys are noting is not much more than stainless steel stickness? Not sayin ...just askin.

What nickels are you using on your alder/rosewood bass, or are those the Sunbeams?

 

[Vic]

All I know is, with all this string talk, and with Ed's clips, I wanna' try a set of LoRider nickels on my LG soon.

 

[GRoberts]

What nickels are you using on your alder/rosewood bass, or are those the Sunbeams?

I was using Sunbeams. I really love their tone and longevity. But I started using Dunlop Nickels, the set that comes with a .130 B string. They sound as good or better than Sunbeams to me, and the B string is just head and shoulders better on my bass. (Not an Alleva, though I wish I had one) I play a Nordy VJ5. I know a lot of guys who have tried these Dunlops and are really impressed with them. Even more than DR Sunbeams. ...and the Dunlops are cheaper! I just changed a set of Dunlops that had been on my bass for four months. And I gig 2-3x/week, plus rehearsals and/or recording. I used to change my strings every 6-8 weeks. The Dunlops still sounded good to me. But I popped a G string and figured it was time for a new set.

 

[esoxhntr]

Y'all need to try some Fodera Vic Wooten Nickels - killer on every Alleva Coppolo bass I've heard/played. LG5, LM5, RA5, LG4, all sound awesome. I particularly like the light gauge (.040 - .120).

 

[esoxhntr]

Yippee... post 1000!!!

If anyone else is having trouble with single coil hum of the 60 Hz variety (props to Vic), check out the Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger. Very effective for those times when ya just have to solo a pickup.