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Club Sadowsky!!!

#32,681
KJung said:
Whew... I just can't imagine that P pickup with the VTC wide open.
Click to expand...
I can.

I was messing around with a pick the other day with some hard rock tunes and even without a fuzz box, it was stellar. With a fuzz box, it rocked HARD. Personally, even with finger style I run it generally 70-100% wide open and even with the brilliance of steels, I like the sound.

That said, I do agree there is a classic magic P sound with nickels and the vtc backed off. That is truth.

FWIW anyway.
 
#32,682
Vic said:
I can.

I was messing around with a pick the other day with some hard rock tunes and even without a fuzz box, it was stellar. With a fuzz box, it rocked HARD. Personally, even with finger style I run it generally 70-100% wide open and even with the brilliance of steels, I like the sound.

That said, I do agree there is a classic magic P sound with nickels and the vtc backed off. That is truth.

FWIW anyway.
Click to expand...

Depending on the rig and the music style, I can surely see that. I don't think I've ever had my passive tone control open more than about 35%, and it was BRIGHT! You have to be a bit careful through front of house. A P with too much gank can really sound awful through a big system with big horns like that.

But again, different strokes!
 
#32,683
KJung said:
Depending on the rig and the music style, I can surely see that. I don't think I've ever had my passive tone control open more than about 35%, and it was BRIGHT! You have to be a bit careful through front of house. A P with too much gank can really sound awful through a big system with big horns like that.

But again, different strokes!
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In my experience, FOH sound is always less bright than my stage rig, so that's never been an issue for me. Remember, it's always easier to tame high end than try to create it where it wasn't before.

As a general rule, I always like to feed my rig a fairly full range signal and tune its EQ as needed, only dropping the VTC for specific cases/songs where it's needed. I always try to tune for the general case of "bass flat" and go from there.

YMMV tho.
 
#32,684
Vic said:
In my experience, FOH sound is always less bright than my stage rig, so that's never been an issue for me. Remember, it's always easier to tame high end than try to create it where it wasn't before.

As a general rule, I always like to feed my rig a fairly full range signal and tune its EQ as needed, only dropping the VTC for specific cases/songs where it's needed. I always try to tune for the general case of "bass flat" and go from there.

YMMV tho.
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Whew... I forgot you use that GK rig. Yes, that is a sizzle machine!

Again, with my J basses, I virtually never use the VTC or the active EQ much for that matter. +1 there. Many 'J pickup loaded basses' don't even have a passive tone control

As most realize with a P Bass, it is quite a different thing, and as you can see by the posts above, a more 'flat/neutral' setting on a pure P is probably around 50% passive tone control for most (probably lower with a Fender, and you can get away with a little less cutting with the Nordstand since it is quite a bit more 'pure' up there).

Given these huge differences in these pickup types, that is why the combination of them strike me as a bit unusual, which was the point of my post.
 
#32,685
That is sweet! I can't wait to see the finished product.

That body reminds me of a Rorschach Test! Or a marketing ad with subliminal images hidden in ice cubes! I can't spot the old man fishing, but I see the eyes looking straight ahead in the middle of the body. And several faces on the left side where your forearm would rest. And a huge eyeball at the base of the lower horn! The longer I stare at it, the more images I spot.

kulit17 said:
A cool Coco bolo body ala Roger!

a6f804c8-579e-d8ab.jpg
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#32,686
KJung said:
Whew... I forgot you use that GK rig. Yes, that is a sizzle machine!
Click to expand...
It can be, but only if you want it to. I do actually use some EQ on it, and for some songs, I do actually also use the VTC (and cut active treble on some other basses too). :)

The main thing I like about leaving this pickup wide open and setting my "max brightness" at the amp is it seems to just sound more "open" that way, which is the way I like it to sound most of the time.

As you know, dropping the VTC does far more than just cut the high end. It alters tone in at least a couple different ways, and at least for my prefs, that's not my "base tone" (tho I DO agree per your comments, for a lot of folks, it is). I know your prefs are different, just saying at least for me, it's not hard at all to imagine using these pickups "wide open" quite a lot... even with steels, and maybe even more so with nickels, which impart a sweetness factor "automatically".

Anyway, FWIW.

EDIT: Disclaimer... I am NOT your typical P bass player... keep this in mind. The fact that this pickup is brighter and more aggressive than a more typical classic sounding pickup, is why I like it (and why I've sold every other P bass I've tried to love).
 
#32,687
Vic said:
It can be, but only if you want it to. I do actually use some EQ on it, and for some songs, I do actually also use the VTC (and cut active treble on some other basses too). :)

The main thing I like about leaving this pickup wide open and setting my "max brightness" at the amp is it seems to just sound more "open" that way, which is the way I like it to sound most of the time.

As you know, dropping the VTC does far more than just cut the high end. It alters tone in at least a couple different ways, and at least for my prefs, that's not my "base tone" (tho I DO agree per your comments, for a lot of folks, it is). I know your prefs are different, just saying at least for me, it's not hard at all to imagine using these pickups "wide open" quite a lot... even with steels, and maybe even more so with nickels, which impart a sweetness factor "automatically".

Anyway, FWIW.

EDIT: Disclaimer... I am NOT your typical P bass player... keep this in mind. The fact that this pickup is brighter and more aggressive than a more typical classic sounding pickup, is why I like it (and why I've sold every other P bass I've tried to love).
Click to expand...

+1 Lots of ways to skin this cat. And +1, rolling the passive tone control back on a P seems to also fatten up the low end even more, while cutting that lower treble/upper mid 'harshness'.

+1 Too that I kind of like a 'traditional J' tone and a somewhat 'traditional P' tone (in the spirit of Bob Glaub).

Anyway, thanks to all. Interesting discussion, and it seems lots of ways to make the PJ thing work. Interesting with the comment above about winding a J pickup and possibly doing something with capacitors to put the P and the J at kind of neutral starting points in a PJ. I would think that might be a selling point for some luthier. Maybe not!
 
#32,688
In the early days of P-Bass, the standard go to cab was 2x15".
Now days the accepted standard for P seems to be 12" drivers. This seems to tame the edge that you guys are referring to in the majority of cases, without having to dial back much or any VTC. The P pup has an affinity for larger cones & air push that reinforces the richness in the thump. I agree that the "flat" sound of a P is magic, especially strung w/flats. BUT as Alan has discovered, a healthy bass & moderate treble boost on the Sad' preamp makes "fat" P a magic place as well. A P/J is a P-Bass with a J for tweaking a tune, I feel. It'll never work J-Bass or replicate what you find attractive about J-Bass. I think if you listen for "push" in your tone, the clarity of the J grind won't be as necessary to reach satisfaction. Jus' sayin' ;)
B.
 
#32,692
pickles said:
I never, ever back off the tone control on a p bass.

Ken, are you sure you like p basses? Backing off the tone control takes all the P out of the P IME.
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As well as full up VTC for me with the P pup (or P favoured), I find that there is a sweet spot for finger style right hand which is over the front (top) section of the P pup & sometimes just ahead of that position. I like the P pup sound to be not too rigid/or "fast" like it is when played behind the P pup. There has to be some "give" or spring in the sound to bring out the potential in P.
Please forgive me for running my mouth here but somebody mentioned P pups. :D
B.
 
#32,694
pickles said:
I never, ever back off the tone control on a p bass.

Ken, are you sure you like p basses? Backing off the tone control takes all the P out of the P IME.
Click to expand...

Yeah, different strokes. In dozens and dozens of GTG's and in decades of experience with P's and P players, I don't think I've ever run into anyone who uses a P like that. However, my peers are more pop/funk players, and most of them use rounds and 'modern clean rigs' that relatively emulate a front of house system (i.e., clean, big, wide, full range, solid state). I again come from the Bob Glaub type P tone for pop and rock, and the Ready Freddie Washington school of tone for funk. If you listen to, for example, Brazilian Love Affair by George Duke, that is the P tone general profile that I go for, at least when 'funking' (back then, those guys used reasonably bright new flats, but you can get there pretty nicely with a set of nickels like the Sadowsky black label that have a lot of midrange character).

I again, am pretty sure that a P into an old school fridge or something would be a different thing and benefit from that massive upper mid/lower treble output. Also, an alder/RW P with old flats... well there you go. +1. I totally agree, when you dial down the tone control too much on a spec like that, you end up in Pino land... fat, but flubby and very little note definition unless you are very careful. I heard Pino live a while back and it sounded so bad I almost cried, given what I saw him doing. ZERO note definition. Ready Freddie, who has gone very old school with Steely Dan, sounded similar live, with that 'alder/RW/flats' and the tone control turned down. +1... mud.

As you might have heard from my clips on Youtube, my P tone is VERY present in the top end, and very articulate. Most of those clips were made with the passive tone control at around 40%, which is right at the point where, through a modern rig (i.e, full range and evenly voiced from the lows all the way up) the top end of the P comes alive and does not sound massively upper mid bright and a bit thin down low.

SVT with a fridge and flats... whole different story!:D

Again, lots going on with different experience. Thanks again guys for the input. Sometimes it is easy to forget that there are so many different ways to get to a good place. This discussion also explains why I VERY rarely see a PJ spec in the universe of players I associate with and that have similar tone goals to me. I guess it is 'the right tool for the right job', as with anything else. All good stuff that each excels in different contexts!

I'll continue to keep my eye out for a Sadowsky ash/maple P5. Nothing better to my ear than an ash/maple P with the Nordstrand P5 pickup and broken-in nickel wounds. Would love to have the Sadowsky flavor of that in my collection! I prefer a passive P tone, but it would be fun to have an active model like the Sadowsky!
 
#32,695
Just a few examples of some of the P and P/J tones I like:

Bob Glaub with John Fogerty:
Bob is playing a PJ (IIRC, he's not using the J pickup)
http://youtu.be/c6rQthKld-g?t=1m18s

Willie Weeks (here with Eric Clapton):
http://youtu.be/iEltQ_KtDhs?t=6m30s

Not a fan of BJ, but Hugh's Sadowsky PJ sounds killer on this intro (we'll forgive Jon's screwing the rythm on the first few bars :D):
Invalid Link Removed
 
#32,696
Fran Diaz said:
Just a few examples of some of the P and P/J tones I like:

Bob Glaub with John Fogerty:
Bob is playing a PJ (IIRC, he's not using the J pickup)
http://youtu.be/c6rQthKld-g?t=1m18s

Willie Weeks (here with Eric Clapton):
http://youtu.be/iEltQ_KtDhs?t=6m30s

Not a fan of BJ, but Hugh's Sadowsky PJ sounds killer on this intro (we'll forgive Jon's screwing the rythm on the first few bars :D):
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I love Bob Glaub! What a player and what a tone.. and Kenny A. on drums... bad a**. Bob plays on, of all things, a relatively new Doobie Brothers disc, and the tone is simply glorious... fat, but articulate with just a touch of top end. Love it!
 
#32,698
Another point of view...
Now, this --does not apply to my Sadowsky MV5PJ--

But, a 1972 Fender ash/maple P was my main touring bass for a long time, and, it was always "fresh nickles, everything wide open.''

The only thing I used the pots on that bass for was to turn it off b/t songs.
 
#32,699
Chef said:
Another point of view...
Now, this --does not apply to my Sadowsky MV5PJ--

But, a 1972 Fender ash/maple P was my main touring bass for a long time, and, it was always "fresh nickles, everything wide open.''

The only thing I used the pots on that bass for was to turn it off b/t songs.
Click to expand...

Another interesting thing (and I guess this is why they put the knobs on basses and amps) is when we hung a while back, and I remember I had my Walter Woods and Berg HS210 cab, and my Sadowsky RV5 with, I believe Hi Beams at the time, and you were like 'that sounds good, but I surely don't need that much top end'. :p

We each interact differently with an instrument. I remember me sounding much more 'wide open' versus your more meaty sort of tone when playing the same bass and rig. It is funny when we did all those GTG's in Detroit, with Mikebass and a ton of other players, and we all pretty much had a similar tone, since we all were coming from the same place conceptually. That can result in some 'tunnel vision', which I was pretty guilty of regarding 'how can others not set their P like I set my P', since everyone I know pretty much goes for a similar J and P sound as I do.:D

Anyway, fun discussion. It is why I enjoy putting up clips, so that people can at least put my (and others who put up clips) comments in some sort of context of the general tonality I dig. IMO there.

I will most likely be in BIG trouble if I ever see an Ash/maple P5 on the Sadowsky update page!
 

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