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I am partial to the real deal myself. I would never buy a road warn type bass either. Here's my '69 fender.
I've been told by a reputable tech that the wood in the Fender Road Worn series has been treated (heating?) in some fashion intended to mimic the aging/seasoning process, so there is a sonic benefit as opposed to asinine, superficial considerations. I think Yamaha is also treating the wood in their current high-end BB series, with the same goal.
But yes, artificial mojo is, at bottom, no more than that! Ain't nothing like the real thing, Baby...
I did not know that, but I have never looked into it but that sounds plausible. I am not at all opposed to people buying a Road Worn Fender, I just would not myself. Whatever makes other people happy is alright by me. The Sadowsky relic finish is the best I have seen it done. But if I pay that kinda money, I want it clean and new.
I wonder if the people that buy relics are the same ones that are afraid to gig expensive basses.
Regarding relicing - nothing bugs me more than asking what year someone's worn out looking Fender is only to be told, "It's a 2010". I'm wondering, do companies that relic ever get customer complaints that equate to the reversal of the usual:
Customer: "Hey, there's a crack in the finish of the bass I just bought..."
Dealer: "Yes, but that crack is part of the 'relicing'"
Customer: "I know, but the crack isn't BIG ENOUGH!"
Dealer: "Hmm - okay, I guess we could give you a $100 refund...".
Customer: "Hey, there's a crack in the finish of the bass I just bought..."
Dealer: "Yes, but that crack is part of the 'relicing'"
Customer: "I know, but the crack isn't BIG ENOUGH!"
Dealer: "Hmm - okay, I guess we could give you a $100 refund...".
Yes, Yamaha does! I hadn't heard Fender was doing that too. I'm gonna' have to dig into that.
However, I also don't consider this "relicking". Again, very specific to faking road wear/tear... aesthetics. You can have sonicly treated wood in a perfectly pristine instrument. Same thing with artificial aging of pickup magnets to reproduce a vintage tone. Not relicking IMHO.
I was never a fan of pre-washed jeans, either. Give 'em to me so blue they're black, and stiff as a board. Now you can't get 'em any other way 'cept pre-washed. Ones with holes cost extra.
Regarding relicing, not my particular cup of meat. But I guess if it makes someone feel great to have a instrument that's all beat up, I don't really have a problem with it. It's the sound that comes out that's the important thing.
Although I must admit that I am putting together a "mostly vintage" stock Fender Precision. (72 Neck, 72 body, late 70's bridge). I went ahead and bought a new aged pick-guard so it wouldn't look so out of place against the other pieces. I just can't rationalize spending $275 to $500 on a piece of plastic (or nitro-cellulose).
I also have to say, there are some truly artistic luthier/finish folks that create beautiful reliced instruments. There's an art to it.
Regarding relicing, not my particular cup of meat. But I guess if it makes someone feel great to have a instrument that's all beat up, I don't really have a problem with it. It's the sound that comes out that's the important thing.
Although I must admit that I am putting together a "mostly vintage" stock Fender Precision. (72 Neck, 72 body, late 70's bridge). I went ahead and bought a new aged pick-guard so it wouldn't look so out of place against the other pieces. I just can't rationalize spending $275 to $500 on a piece of plastic (or nitro-cellulose).
I also have to say, there are some truly artistic luthier/finish folks that create beautiful reliced instruments. There's an art to it.
That's one reason I love the roasted maple necks! I know, not quite the same (roasted seems to be darker, generally), but still.
I've read about a shoe polish trick to get that aged look. Here's the first hit on Google, it backs up my recollections... some swear by it for nitro and poly:
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Just an FYI, I'd never attempt it myself and don't expect you're going to jump on it either.
you can be sure I won't aply show polish to my bass
I think the whole relicking process is stupid and a complete waste of time and money. To me, it's just taking an otherwise great looking instrument, and damaging/abusing it for no good reason at all.
The bulk of the "improvements" in feel on a well played instrument can simply be accomplished by moving to an unfinished or oil finished neck, etc.
...
Ok, fire away.
Okay, I'll play. I completely disagree!
I understand why others appreciate a pristine bass. Also, I am OCD in that I don't like those early dings. But even though I'm a fairly busy semi-pro, I gig for fun more than anything. Decades ago I realized that worrying about every little ding was adding stress to my gigs. I worry enough about theft and true damage, and decided there's no reason to wear a diaper over my belt, keep my bass in its case between sets, and huddle in the corner so the singer doesn't clang me with his mic stand.
The relic process comes into play because the bass is pre-worn -- zero worries about dings and buckle rash.
Also, when relicing is done right (as Roger does), I think it looks wonderful -- finish checking included.
Forgive the re-posts, but: I consider Sadowsky to be expensive and I'm not afraid to gig it. This is my beloved road warrior, a 2005 P5. For 5 years it was my #1 gig bass -- then I got two more Sadowskys to help carry the load.
Sadowsky necks have nitro finishes. Wear will happen. This was taken after just a few years. The wear is probably from my wedding ring -- I have smallish hands.
NOTHING, not even oil, feels better to me than a vintage Fender neck that has become nearly black from heavy play after the nitro has worn away. Given that wear-through had begun -- and the satin nitro had turned glossy from playing -- I used some 300 grit sandpaper to accelerate the process. I don't pretend that it'll ever be as nice as the 50's and 60's Fenders I've played, but it's wonderful.
So, even though Blackie is fairly relic'd, mostly naturally, my next Sadowsky will be a Vintiquity. The whole argument that "it's not real playing wear" is silly IMO. If it looks good, as Vintiquities do, it simply doesn't matter.
Forgive the re-posts, but: I consider Sadowsky to be expensive and I'm not afraid to gig it. This is my beloved road warrior, a 2005 P5. For 5 years it was my #1 gig bass -- then I got two more Sadowskys to help carry the load.
Sadowsky necks have nitro finishes. Wear will happen. This was taken after just a few years. The wear is probably from my wedding ring -- I have smallish hands.
NOTHING, not even oil, feels better to me than a vintage Fender neck that has become nearly black from heavy play after the nitro has worn away. Given that wear-through had begun -- and the satin nitro had turned glossy from playing -- I used some 300 grit sandpaper to accelerate the process. I don't pretend that it'll ever be as nice as the 50's and 60's Fenders I've played, but it's wonderful.
So, even though Blackie is fairly relic'd, mostly naturally, my next Sadowsky will be a Vintiquity. The whole argument that "it's not real playing wear" is silly IMO. If it looks good, as Vintiquities do, it simply doesn't matter.
I'm with you on this one. I love the way Roger's Vintiquity basses look; Tone, playability, etc. are out of the question with his basses.
I sorta' see your point, but at the same time, while I also try hard to take care of my stuff, I'll also take ANYthing I own ANYWHERE.
1.) First and foremost, I'm not a damn "curator" for some subsequent owner of a bass. I paid hard-earned money for that bass and I'm going to FULLY enjoy it... which means I use it as much as possible.
2.) I've learned to accept the fact that you can't absolutely guarantee a bass will never see damage, but you can come close. I've been doing it for years successfully. Just ask anyone who's ever bough anything from me.
3.) If you ultimately are ok with a relicked look, then fear of the first ding shouldn't be an issue... in fact, it should be celebrated... two reasons... a) It's YOUR ding, honestly earned, and b) you're one step closer to your ultimately desired look.
Given... anything Roger does, is done right. The challenge is not in how it's done, but rather, should it be done.
4098, while not totally torn up is definitely not pristine. It's got a few small dings here and there and has had the finish stripped off the back of the neck and has even been refretted already. I couldn't love that bass more, but at the same time, I'd never consider handing it to a guy with a hammer, screwdriver, and sandpaper and say "have a field day with it, and I'll pay you for whatever damage you wanna do".
I opened a thread on the Sadowsky forum regarding my road to 'Vintiquity' on my own PJ. There are a few things wehere I wouldn't mind to speed up the process, like the eaging on the pickguard (specially making the white layer look yellower) and the darkening, ambering of the nitro finish on the neck in those areas where my hands make no contact (mostly the headstock).
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Well, FWIW - I agree with you!
Dan K.
Dan K.
I'm probably gonna' get blasted for this, but hey, it's a web forum and it's been a while since I've been hammered, so maybe it's time...
IMHO!!!!!!!!!
I think the whole relicking process is stupid and a complete waste of time and money. To me, it's just taking an otherwise great looking instrument, and damaging/abusing it for no good reason at all.
The bulk of the "improvements" in feel on a well played instrument can simply be accomplished by moving to an unfinished or oil finished neck, etc.
And while I think road wear on a well played old bass does equate to "mojo" and can actually be attractive, doing it artificially holds absolutely NO value to me (in fact, negative value), because at least to me, what makes that wear attractive, is knowing how it got there (and wishing I knew all the stories behind it).
Ok, fire away.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
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- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
I noticed that the tuners are different.. These seem to have Hex heads over the older style press fits.. mmmm
Love that bass... And its lighter than all heck
Love that bass... And its lighter than all heck
On the "factory-made relics" - is it aesthetics, or is it being a poser?
I'd rather have a bass that I have worn in than one made in a factory. That being said, I try to play with a light touch and none of my basses have much wear showing. I guess I don't practice/gig enough!
Should I add this?
Dan K.
I'd rather have a bass that I have worn in than one made in a factory. That being said, I try to play with a light touch and none of my basses have much wear showing. I guess I don't practice/gig enough!
Should I add this?
Dan K.
Two years ago, we changed our tuners from having a press fit headstock bushing to having a top nut. Now we have switched again to Hipshot Ultralites with a 1/2" diameter string post. We are using a steel post on the 4 string sets to give us the extra mass we like. On the 5 strings, we have moved from a 3/8" to a 1/2" post and the 5 string sets have aluminum posts.
Always tweaking and fine tuning.....
Roger
