Club Sadowsky!!!

[ganttbos]

A good example of a creative fix for this: In one casino I used to play we used electric drums with stage drum sound coming through a wedge for each player. No backline. FOH was pretty rigid about not wanting instruments other than drums through stage wedges.

The stage monitor console was right next to me. I could tweak the aux feeding my in-ears. There are many variations of this. There are those monitor systems that allow each performer to control his in-ear mix. We used an Allen and Heath board that supported software that allowed you to control your monitor aux with an iPhone or iPad mounted on your mic stand, etc. etc. Endless options nowadays. In the 60's I played with 2 SVT 8x10's as a backline and we had nothing through FOH but vocals, and NO stage wedges! "Living in the future" is awesome!

 

[bucephylus]

My $0.019 on active basses and FOH: no big deal. Or not.

IF your sound engineer knows what’s going on, you have to spend 10 minutes setting the input trim so it is around 6db down from distorting the input channel at zero gain on the slider, irrespective of the output of the bass. That gives you reasonable headroom to make practical adjustments with your tone controls and playing methods.

If your sound engineer does not understand the board, you may be in for more of a ride.

 

[Trouztrouz]

My $0.019 on active basses and FOH: no big deal. Or not.

Do you own a gas station?

 

[bucephylus]

Do you own a gas station?

Are your referring to the short hand for "less than two cents?" Just saving keystrokes.

 

[jasesng]

Just got this from the TYO shop... slated for completion on 29th April! Almost a year in the waiting too..

 

[Spidey2112]

Just got this from the TYO shop... slated for completion on 29th April! Almost a year in the waiting too..

View attachment 2940142

They really are works of art, aren't they? Wow! A year! I'm sure it will be well worth the wait!

 

[projectapollo]

Hi projectappolo. Re: your issue here's my take.

If you feel the need to use your bass in active mode to get an in-ear sound that's comfortable for you then spend some time and find a starting point sweet spot. (Even if you run passive you still may need to tweak on your end, even if it's just volume you bump or cut). Then have a talk with the FOH person, explain your intentions, and assure him/her that you're going to stick with that setting for one set (no 'surprise adjustments'), with the caveat that you may want to tweak your onboard pre for the next go 'round. Now you've established a working relationship with mutual input / respect. FOH can pull some low end or otherwise EQ or adust your volume in the mix without worrying about the mix being "sabotaged." FOH people hate that. After a round or three you should be able to find a setting that's OK for you both.
FWIW I've gritted my teeth and lived through many a set resisting the urge to adjust my sound in a way that affects my FOH send. If you're not using a backline rig at all you might consider a wedge projecting back in your face that gives you some control over what you hear while minimizing interference with what FOH hears. Leave out one earbud - whatever. There ARE ways around this issue. But include FOH in the experimentation and work with them. Adjusting your tone / volume "on your own" will quickly poison your relationship with FOH.

Good feedback thank you. I know our FOH and monitor guys well and used to be the head tech dude mixing FOH regularly. Actually I find is less stressful to play bass than do sound! LOL. My troubles start with our rushed rehearsals: we do a quick level check one instrument at at a time then a run through of a song to get band settings but I never have enough time to get my in-ear mix iPad thing where I like it and the bass sounding OK in the in-ears. I bought the church a butt-kicker for the bass and drums a few years back and that was an amazing solution. Just very very cool. But it sort of fell into disrepair and now only have the in-ears - the lack of any seismic feeling of the bass is just not that satisfying. Our system has like a dozen JBL subs flying over the stage area but I don't feel them. Back to rehearsal - I'll end up adjusting the pre-amp a bit and a couple of weeks ago I got the dreaded "what the heck did you do, the bass suddenly got so loud". But its rehearsal, man, thats what this is for? I agree I need to talk to them some more. Oh well..... I was curious how the Sadowsky brethren handle and use this power pre-amp and appreciate the experience and feedback. I was a bit surprised at the responses here in going passive. I'll try that more often. I do like the VTC knob for quickly getting to more delicate sounds.

 

[jasesng]

They really are works of art, aren't they? Wow! A year! I'm sure it will be well worth the wait!

Thanks! I'll update as the pictures come in. The lead time was originally 8 months but my neck was involved in a batch that after being sent for roasting, was deemed unsuitable for production due to warping. I liked how the Tokyo team were upfront about it.

 

[Fuzzbass]

my neck was involved in a batch that after being sent for roasting, was deemed unsuitable for production due to warping.

Definitely better to find that out sooner than later! Does this mean you ordered a figured maple neck?

 

[Spidey2112]

Definitely better to find that out sooner than later! Does this mean you ordered a figured maple neck?

I can laugh, cause its not mine...

... wait a sec... it could have been mine, it's still funny, and yes... I'm laughing!

(cause... it's not mine.).

They'll get it right, @jasesng... no worries!

 

[jasesng]

Definitely better to find that out sooner than later! Does this mean you ordered a figured maple neck?

That's for sure!
Just a plain maple neck back & front for this WL5!

 

[chris_b]

Like any industrial process there will be wastage.

 

[Nomogram]

Here's a photo from our bar gig last Saturday. Small club, good crowd. I love nights like that. Satin J in action!

Two gigs this weekend (Fri and Sat), hopefully better action shots at some point. I'm going to say this again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record - this Satin bass is the best bass ever, and the light weight is saving my back, literally.

 

[SadowskySteve]

Here's a photo from our bar gig last Saturday. Small club, good crowd. I love nights like that. Satin J in action!

Two gigs this weekend (Fri and Sat), hopefully better action shots at some point. I'm going to say this again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record - this Satin bass is the best bass ever, and the light weight is saving my back, literally.

View attachment 2943575

Your bass really pops on stage. Love the colour choice.

 

[bucephylus]

Good feedback thank you. I know our FOH and monitor guys well and used to be the head tech dude mixing FOH regularly. Actually I find is less stressful to play bass than do sound! LOL. My troubles start with our rushed rehearsals: we do a quick level check one instrument at at a time then a run through of a song to get band settings but I never have enough time to get my in-ear mix iPad thing where I like it and the bass sounding OK in the in-ears. I bought the church a butt-kicker for the bass and drums a few years back and that was an amazing solution. Just very very cool. But it sort of fell into disrepair and now only have the in-ears - the lack of any seismic feeling of the bass is just not that satisfying. Our system has like a dozen JBL subs flying over the stage area but I don't feel them. Back to rehearsal - I'll end up adjusting the pre-amp a bit and a couple of weeks ago I got the dreaded "what the heck did you do, the bass suddenly got so loud". But its rehearsal, man, thats what this is for? I agree I need to talk to them some more. Oh well..... I was curious how the Sadowsky brethren handle and use this power pre-amp and appreciate the experience and feedback. I was a bit surprised at the responses here in going passive. I'll try that more often. I do like the VTC knob for quickly getting to more delicate sounds.

I’m a little more than a year into an ampless IEM gig with my dance band; so, still learning, but here are a few FWIW thoughts.

First, from a purely bass player centric tonal perspective; there is a HUGE loss in dynamic presence for the bass instrument when you go to an IEM only system. I periodically drag out my big gear, set it up, and am amazed by the difference. I finally bit the bullet and popped for some 64 Audio A4’s, which should arrive soon; and I’m hoping those will help. But, I don’t think this is an active/passive instrument issue. It’s just a fact that playing into IEM only monitoring makes the gig seem much more clinical and like playing in the studio vs playing live. I just live with it. Vibration pads won’t help us, because stage space is unpredictable and makes them not practical.

Second, I have worked a good bit with the bass sound in our FOH; which is QSC 153i’s sitting on JBL subs. The best tone I can get is adequate. It’s clear and loud enough. Does the job. I would not choose that for a stand alone bass rig.

Third, as you probably know, the IEM monitoring tends to make much better ensemble playing and vocal harmonizing. Which is what the clientele actually pays attention to.

So, my current position is that the IEM system makes us give up that visceral live connection to the bass amp; but, what we get in return is better ensemble presentation. It would be nice to have your cake and eat it too (by the ocean); but, as things stand, you don’t get both.

 

[Nomogram]

^^^ I agree with bucephylus on those observations. The studio experience is a good analogy.

I will just add a couple of additional things from my experience.

One other major benefit of IEM monitoring is hearing protection. For me, it's worth it just for that alone.

And while I do miss the physical thunder, one thing I've learned to benefit from is getting the exact mix in my ears that I need for optimal playing. I've learned to have the kick, hi-hat, and snare louder in the mix than guitars, for example. Helps me play right with the drummer, tight as possible.

Also, a really good sound man can help make things better. My band works with several sound companies (based on availability, location, price, etc.). And it does make a difference. I'm not a sound expert, but good ones enhance the stage experience for the musicians as well as the audience.

But yeah, bucephylus nails it pretty well in the above post.

Also, I almost always set up an amp on stage. Just in case. Had one time at an outdoor gig where a sound engineer lost monitor ability due to heat/humidity/equipment fail. But normally, I leave stage volume in my amp at zero or practically zero. At HOME, in the bassment (intentional misspell!), I play through my amp and enjoy a little thunder....

 

[bass12]

Sadowsky pre-amp question. I've been using my two Metros for church about once a month for a couple of years. We go direct into a large FOH system with in-ears. With the boost only pre-amp, I find that I can't make much adjustment to my on board bass because it dramatically affects the output of the instrument to the console and surprises the FOH engineer. How do you pros manage this boost-only powerful pre-amp?

Companion question: Anybody just go passive very often?

I've been gigging Sadowskys on in-ear gigs for the last five years or so. I usually have the bass boosted about 15% and leave it that way for the duration of the show. I find that boosting the highs (which I might do if I'm slapping and my strings are a bit dead) and using the VTC (which I will adjust if we are playing cocktail stuff or if I want to take some of the sizzle out of my sound for a particular song) don't throw the FOH off the way that adjusting the bass does. If the stage is muddy-sounding in the lows then I might end up bringing down the bass (if using my HPF isn't enough) for more definition. In that kind of scenario (where I'm adjusting on the fly) I figure the sound guy will just have to deal with my dialing back the bass a touch. I've talked to our various FOH guys about this on numerous occasions and they never seem to find it to be any big deal. But, yeah, in 95% of cases I don't touch the bass knob - I always have it boosted approx. 15%.

 

[Spidey2112]

^^^ I agree with bucephylus on those observations. The studio experience is a good analogy.

I will just add a couple of additional things from my experience.

One other major benefit of IEM monitoring is hearing protection. For me, it's worth it just for that alone.

And while I do miss the physical thunder, one thing I've learned to benefit from is getting the exact mix in my ears that I need for optimal playing. I've learned to have the kick, hi-hat, and snare louder in the mix than guitars, for example. Helps me play right with the drummer, tight as possible.

Also, a really good sound man can help make things better. My band works with several sound companies (based on availability, location, price, etc.). And it does make a difference. I'm not a sound expert, but good ones enhance the stage experience for the musicians as well as the audience.

But yeah, bucephylus nails it pretty well in the above post.

Also, I almost always set up an amp on stage. Just in case. Had one time at an outdoor gig where a sound engineer lost monitor ability due to heat/humidity/equipment fail. But normally, I leave stage volume in my amp at zero or practically zero. At HOME, in the bassment (intentional misspell!), I play through my amp and enjoy a little thunder....

I like knocking shot glasses off the shelf, by just thinking about turning it up... the Don Julio remains protected, though, in a Jeannie-like bottle.

 

[Joeykun]

I’ve been gigging with IEM (64 AudioU4) for the last 3 years. Yeah there is some disconnect but we set up mics on both side of the stage to blend in crowd noise, room, etc. This definitely helps.

Also, I use a Darkglass B7K Ultra set with a mild break up that gives that bass amp feel to the tone. Sounds killer. My signal is split to 2 channels. Ch. 1 has a HPF and Ch. 2 has a LPF. With the Midas M32 phone app I can dial in my own mix with as much highs or lows I need. Absolute luxury.

Our vocals have greatly improved with IEMs and was the best purchase we’ve made as a band. My other band doesn’t use them and I miss them a lot at shows. But, I admit it’s great to fire up the rig and feel that Sadowsky tone. But, would prefer the in ear setup if I had a choice.

 

[kevk]

I’ve gigged my Sadowsky’s with IEM’s the past 1-1/2 years, and found there was a real learning curve...but now I absolutely prefer them!

Having an ambient mic in the mix (to better connect with the audience) really helps...and the lowest overall monitor volume manageable, works best.

I use Alclair CMVK (5-driver) ears, which have a sub driver for bass player emphasis...

While you can absolutely feel bass vibration/pressure (like a cab)...I’ve found that ear fatigue sets in fairly quickly, if too loud...then I’m in trouble, as the bass becomes “mush” in my ears. If I had to do it again, I’d just buy balanced frequency ears, maybe 2-4 drivers...the r-e-a-l key is having a great in-ear seal.

Also, I think the latest cab sim concept is perfect for IEM users. I recently got an OmniCabSim Deluxe and AO Ultra...now sorting it all out to see what works best.