Club Sadowsky!!!

[danclaro]

I've owned a couple PJ5s, a Metro and NYC. I would usually favor the P 99% of the time (Love that sound!) maybe on a couple of tunes I would use just the J, but I did not like the sound that was produced with both pickups on... not an "inherent flaw", but just my opinion...YMMV.

It just sounded out of phase to me, maybe because the J has it's focal point in a straight line across the strings and the P has it's focal points in two different spots? Maybe Lee Sklar was on to something when he used Two P pickups?

I'm an old dude who dove into the modding craze in the late 70's and 80's. I was a P-bass guy who converted a number of basses to PJ, some active and some passive. IMO the only "inherent flaw" is in expectations: a PJ with both pickups dimed will never sound like a Jazz bass with both pickups dimed, especially on the D and G strings. All that means is that PJ is different from JJ -- better/worse is a judgment call.

To be fair there were other PJ complications such as pickup output levels, and the fact that a single-coil bridge J will never wind up in a humbucking configuration -- but these are complications, not flaws. Companies such as DiMarzio, Duncan, EMG, bartolini caught up with the modding craze and released balanced PJ sets, usually with humbucking J pickups.

I actually built a tribute to Leland Sklar's Frankenstein bass with two EMG P-pickups setup V-V-T. It's got a great tone... kind of like a J-ish P bass. It works like a Jazz bass, where you get a more scooped tone with both pickups full-up, and if you favor one or the other you get more of those neck or bridge qualities. I tend to use both full on, or with a little off of the neck pickup. No noise of course

With my Sadowsky P-soap 5-string, I favor the P 99% of the time. I had a NYC PJ for a few years, which I adored, and I did the same thing with that one. It's a great P-tone. Sometimes, I would use both pickups full on but I find the D and G strings sound a bit nasally for my preference. Not like a Jazz bass. I have been experimenting with pickup height though, and welcome any suggestions for that. I use Roger's setup tips as well and love them.

As an aside, I recently found an '85 Yamaha BB 3000 bass with a single coil at the bridge. It sounds great and has surprisingly little hum with the single coil in the mix. That bass is V-V-T and has Les Paul-type knobs with numbers and a clear "1-10". I've been experimenting with adding a little J into the P-bass tone and find that a little goes a long way. Now, with my Sadowsky P-soap I'm experimenting with the same thing. So I guess I've learned that 50/50 is not the only way to use a PJ!

 

[AngelCrusher]

Rogers setup educated me a little when I got my bass. I had a tech for years when I toured and never had to learn. Then I went to studio work and had to learn on the fly. Just seeing how Roger set the bridge up was one of those moments where I realized I was going too extreme on the trying to angle the saddles more rounded then just having each side of the saddle more flush and even as a unit. I was also dropping my action a little too low.

Since then I have reset all my Fenders and they play even better now. Funny thing about music, you can play every day, gig 300x a year and still not know s—— about the simplest things.

 

[R&B]

Oh my. Arrived from Japan. Translucent white. “Used” 2015 model. Not a scratch. Pickguard plastic still on. Weight 8.42 pounds. Setup perfect. Tone MONSTROUS. Somebody pinch me.

 

[baTassi]

I remember the argument here where some claim that a PJ is inherently flawed design. I love my satin modern.

TB is full with great knowledgeable people eager to help but, as in any other place on the internet, you will also find a couple of Mr Knowitall, keepers of the only true and eager to bury you under the weight of their word... Even if they are wrong.
I remember someone telling me (not in this club) telling me I was using my bass wrong because I was using both the VTC and the treble boost... Go figure, the guy knows better than Roger...
Saying stuff like that the PJ is a flawled design is just a way of some people to feel they are above the rest, you can only ignore then and keep going (and laugh or course)

 

[number six]

Long ago I used to own 1 bass and take it to a tech for setups.
Over the years I've bought and sold a heap and currently have 8 - 2 NYC Sadowsky J's and some cheapies and bitsa's.
I couldn't afford to have a tech setup all 8, especially after moving back to tropical Australia from the UK.

The old magazine setup article of Roger's (links on TB somewhere) and other posts here regarding string and pickup height etc. have saved me zillions.
As for relief - what Roger says.

There is a Gary Willis book where he mentions holding down 'A' at the 1st fret and holding the string with an elbow at the end of the neck then tap the string in the centre of the neck. Mr Willis suggests a credit card of relief at the centre. Works for me - although I've had dead flat (zero) relief on my NYC's before now, they're so good.

 

[Sadowsky]

Here is my 2 cents on the PJ discussion.

1) The primary purpose of the J is to use solo or to add some additional brightness to the P pickup.

2) In combination, it will never sound like a Jazz Bass!!!

3) With a reverse P, the treble coil ends up in the neck position of a J and eliminates that "nasal quality" people have referred to. It also permits a better G string "pop" sound with both pickups on full. However, many hard core P players do not like having to change their thumb position resting on the P pickup when reversed.

4) It is not much more work or cost to build a PJ over a pure P. so we feel that whatever it brings to the table is worth the addition of the J pickup. However, it MUST be a humcancelling pickup.

5) We continue to offer our Ultra Vintage P basses and always will.

Roger

 

[SadowskySteve]

Here is my 2 cents on the PJ discussion.

1) The primary purpose of the J is to use solo or to add some additional brightness to the P pickup.

2) In combination, it will never sound like a Jazz Bass!!!

3) With a reverse P, the treble coil ends up in the neck position of a J and eliminates that "nasal quality" people have referred to. It also permits a better G string "pop" sound with both pickups on full. However, many hard core P players do not like having to change their thumb position resting on the P pickup when reversed.

4) It is not much more work or cost to build a PJ over a pure P. so we feel that whatever it brings to the table is worth the addition of the J pickup. However, it MUST be a humcancelling pickup.

5) We continue to offer our Ultra Vintage P basses and always will.

Roger

Thanks Roger. My brand new deluxe Satin is making its debut this Friday at a decent size club. Love the sound and tone of the P on its own and will most likely be there for 90% of the time. I have a few songs where I have some aggressive bass parts and lines and am going to dial in the J to make sure I cut through the mix.

I'm interested to hear how other PJ players are using their pick up settings.

 

[AngelCrusher]

Thanks Roger. My brand new deluxe Satin is making its debut this Friday at a decent size club. Love the sound and tone of the P on its own and will most likely be there for 90% of the time. I have a few songs where I have some aggressive bass parts and lines and am going to dial in the J to make sure I cut through the mix.

I'm interested to hear how other PJ players are using their pick up settings.

It’s super easy for me. I either use all J, all P or both. I will switch from both to the J sometimes during a tune for solos.

My go to sound is both pickups on, but I use the P a lot on recordings too.

I string with LaBella flats. I like it better than rounds because I can just keep the tone open and boost the highs and lows a bit and everything stays warm and controlled.

 

[ElMon]

Thanks Roger. My brand new deluxe Satin is making its debut this Friday at a decent size club. Love the sound and tone of the P on its own and will most likely be there for 90% of the time. I have a few songs where I have some aggressive bass parts and lines and am going to dial in the J to make sure I cut through the mix.

I'm interested to hear how other PJ players are using their pick up settings.

My unchambered PJ5 (ash/braz rw) is a garsh-dang wrecking ball with the P Pickup soloed. 99% of what I need is both PUPS blended, and then I reserve the neck pickup for:

1) passive mode classic motown/Jamerson Pbass

2) Palm-muted 808-style bass bombs that have been known to loosen bowels and blow o-rings.

3) 70's P-bass slap tone

I like the low-mid-focused sound of both pickups on the PJ5. Slap tone isn't quite as nice as a JJ5, but then again my own slapping ain't all that hot either.

 

[SadowskySteve]

My unchambered PJ5 (ash/braz rw) is a garsh-dang wrecking ball with the P Pickup soloed. 99% of what I need is both PUPS blended, and then I reserve the neck pickup for:

1) passive mode classic motown/Jamerson Pbass

2) Palm-muted 808-style bass bombs that have been known to loosen bowels and blow o-rings.

3) 70's P-bass slap tone

I like the low-mid-focused sound of both pickups on the PJ5. Slap tone isn't quite as nice as a JJ5, but then again my own slapping ain't all that hot either.

Elmon ster, what are you using for strings?

 

[Fuzzbass]

5) We continue to offer our Ultra Vintage P basses and always will.

Both of my NYC Ultra Vintage P-basses are P-only. It isn't that I don't like PJ -- I created/owned a whole bunch of them over the years -- it's mainly my tendency for K.I.S.S., and P-basses are home for me (though of course I like and own other styles).

 

[gustobassman]

Thanks Roger. My brand new deluxe Satin is making its debut this Friday at a decent size club. Love the sound and tone of the P on its own and will most likely be there for 90% of the time. I have a few songs where I have some aggressive bass parts and lines and am going to dial in the J to make sure I cut through the mix.

I'm interested to hear how other PJ players are using their pick up settings.

Congrats again on the new bass. She's a hot one!

As far as PJ setting - I play reggae/rock-reggae with my PJ5. I favor the P pickup ever so slightly (like just past the detent) - boost the bass about 5%, treble about 15%, VTC to about 50%. Volume rolled back about 5-10%. I have no idea how these settings will translate to another player. I always have an HPF on my board set around 40-45hz to knock off the boominess. I play just past the neck pickup for the thud, bring the hand position back over the two pups for a more defined tone when needed.

 

[Burwabit]

I mostly run P-only on mine. Blending a little J is kinda fun at home but P is best in the mix.
I rarely do much other than a little tone roll-off.

 

[ElMon]

Elmon ster, what are you using for strings?

Switching between D’Addario Chromes and SS rounds depending on the gig.

 

[adivin]

TB is full with great knowledgeable people eager to help but, as in any other place on the internet, you will also find a couple of Mr Knowitall, keepers of the only true and eager to bury you under the weight of their word... Even if they are wrong.
I remember someone telling me (not in this club) telling me I was using my bass wrong because I was using both the VTC and the treble boost... Go figure, the guy knows better than Roger...
Saying stuff like that the PJ is a flawled design is just a way of some people to feel they are above the rest, you can only ignore then and keep going (and laugh or course)

To clarify, I am not a proponent of such argument. I am merely recalling that there was long and somewhat interesting discussion regarding the PJ (mainly passive) design. I actually own a passive PJ. There were good points made on both side.

 

[TolerancEJ]

To begin, I have yet to own my first Sadowsky bass, but I would love one in the near future. That being said, my only PJ at present is an FBass VF6-PJ Fretless with Aguilar pickups. Experimenting with tone, I have found my preference is to have the Precision pickup full with a little of the Jazz pickup, as in one of Roger's notes above.

 

[baTassi]

To clarify, I am not a proponent of such argument. I am merely recalling that there was long and somewhat interesting discussion regarding the PJ (mainly passive) design. I actually own a passive PJ. There were good points made on both side.

Oh, no need to clarify, sorry if my post gave the impression I misunderstood you, my bad I know you were only quoting one of those guys.

I think Roger summarized very well on his post why the PJ makes sense.

I like PJs, I converted my first Fender from day 1 because I knew that doesn't matter how much I like the P sound I'll miss the J bridge tone eventually

 

[Vic]

It's crazy that literally with about $12 in tools, an hour on YouTube, and a little patience - anyone can do a great setup. I wasted $60 so many times for something I could have EASILY done myself.

I've been telling that to my customers for 40 years!!!

If I had a nickel for every time I told another bass/guitar player to learn to do their own setups... well... I'd have another Sadowsky!!! sheesh... never understood the give it to someone else mentality. It's not rocket science. It's like paying a mechanic to inflate the tires on your car.

 

[baTassi]

If I had a nickel for every time I told another bass/guitar player to learn to do their own setups... well... I'd have another Sadowsky!!! sheesh... never understood the give it to someone else mentality. It's not rocket science. It's like paying a mechanic to inflate the tires on your car.

Same here, I don't get how people mystify some things, I get that nobody wants to break something on their instruments, but it's not an easy job to break something on a bass or guitar by just doing a setup.
How to setup my instrument properly was one of the first lessons my teacher gave me when I was starting many years ago and it was one of the most valuable lessons (of the many, that guy is a great teacher)

 

[simongpaez]

Here is my 2 cents on the PJ discussion.

1) The primary purpose of the J is to use solo or to add some additional brightness to the P pickup.

2) In combination, it will never sound like a Jazz Bass!!!

3) With a reverse P, the treble coil ends up in the neck position of a J and eliminates that "nasal quality" people have referred to. It also permits a better G string "pop" sound with both pickups on full. However, many hard core P players do not like having to change their thumb position resting on the P pickup when reversed.

4) It is not much more work or cost to build a PJ over a pure P. so we feel that whatever it brings to the table is worth the addition of the J pickup. However, it MUST be a humcancelling pickup.

5) We continue to offer our Ultra Vintage P basses and always will.

Roger

Roger do you think the P body vs the J body in a P/J will have significant tonal difference??