Club Sadowsky!!!

[mmbass21]

At the end of the day even CNC'd parts need to be sanded by hand. I don't think there's a single assembly line of all automated guitar and bass builders where the human element doesn't come into play at some point in the manufacturing process before QC. I could be wrong but "hand made" vs "hand built" seems like splitting hairs on my bald head. People are inventing smarter and better ways to do everything each and every day. Everything in this world is up to our own individual interpretation so to each their own.

 

[cxcxcx]

Has anyone here ever played a “bad” Sadowsky? Serious question.

I’ve been riding the Sadowsky train for about 25 years. In that time, I’ve come across one or two Sadowsky instruments that didn’t quite do it for me, mostly because of user error in the setup. Those examples were fine in terms of execution and build quality though, and seemed to function well in the hands of someone else!

It’s apparent that the same effort and care goes into every instrument that cones out of the shop. I’ve played Sadowskys owned by big-name players and theirs are literally no better than mine or anyone else’s.

 

[ElMon]

First, have you ever played an NYC Sadowsky?

Second, Roger certainly uses CNC fabricated parts; but, there is quite a lot of hand work that goes into the assembly of each bass. Here is a video, well worth your time to view, which gives some sense of what goes into each instrument.


Perhaps, I’m not sure what you mean by your use of the term “quality.” I think of “quality” as denoting the post production, specification compliance checks. In any case, the construction of the instruments most certainly requires a certain amount of hands on time from skilled artisans. Mike Tobias uses essentially the same approach that Roger is using; and I don’t think most players familiar with Mike’s work would consider his instruments in the same construction class as Fender. Drawing a line between “hand made” and production has become somewhat blurred, in terms of the tooling that gets used. The distinction is in the results. My $0.019.

+1000. A $3million Doosan can turn out crap parts depending on the operator/programmer. Almost every machined product ... wood, metal, plastic/doesn't matter ... gets finished/perfected by hand. Whether it's a horizontal lathe/mill or a well-trained QC department that adds that extra bit of magic. And I use that word intentionally. Human beings who care make the difference. Thing is, those skilled folks aren't just in the US. China/Japan/Vietnam/Pittsburg ... it's all about quality systems and people who are dedicated/trained.

At the end of the day even CNC'd parts need to be sanded by hand. I don't think there's a single assembly line of all automated guitar and bass builders where the human element doesn't come into play at some point in the manufacturing process before QC. I could be wrong but "hand made" vs "hand built" seems like splitting hairs on my bald head. People are inventing smarter and better ways to do everything each and every day. Everything in this world is up to our own individual interpretation so to each their own.

Another way to say the same thing. Yes. I'd really like to geek out with Roger about work instructions/quality system management/tolerances/training/etc as someone whose been in manufacturing a while. CNC's keep labor costs lower, and that can be a benefit to all when I would imagine that the $-per-shop-hour is pretty friggin high in NYC, and from what I gather Roger charges what he does so that he can have some of the best people in his corner, earning a good wage.

For me it's NYC all the way, and I'm honored/blessed to be able to afford it these days, but I gotta think that great things are gonna happen if Roger's 'ethos' is applied/transferred to these new ventures in Germany/China. Putting aside all of the amazing and innovative things Warwick has done in MI production.

 

[Ewo]

Yeah, I can't see Roger _ever_ diluting the quality of the instruments bearing his name.

My personal hands-on experience is with five Sadowskys (three Metros built in Japan, two NYCs), two of which I'm keeping for the foreseeable future. I'm holding onto an NYC built to my request, and a Metro.* I'm OCD-level picky, and I just don't see any difference in the build quality: superb.

* I let the other three go because in the process of owning and playing them, I preferred the wood and electronics combos of the two keepers. They were built just as well.

 

[bass12]

Has anyone here ever played a “bad” Sadowsky? Serious question.

“Bad”? No. I’ve played Sadowskys that didn’t meet my expectations sonically (e.g., how they sat in the mix, how even the notes were across the fingerboard) but that goes with the territory of wooden basses and, to me, is no reflection on the company or its standards.

 

[bass12]

Regarding “hand-made”, CNC, etc. To me “hand-made” is not a selling point. Attention to detail and rigorous standards (not to mention great customer service) on the other hand...

 

[TedH]

This whole handwringing thing re: Warwick must sound very familiar to Mr. Sadowsky.

This was written in TalkBass back in Oct of 2002:

I find this all amusing in that in that Sadowsky started out to make a hand made version of the Fender for those who wanted a Fender sound and look but at a much higher quality and , of course, price. Now the design is being farmed out overseas so a bass can be offered at a lower price for us poor slobs who can't efford the US model.

Mr. Sadowsky's reply, then:
"I really don't like the term "farmed out". Sadowsky Tokyo originated 3 years ago to meet the demand for my instruments in Japan that I was unable to supply.
The project was originally intended for Japanese distribution only. It is only as a result of how impressed I have been with the quality that I decided to offer some select models for sale directly from me.

Roger

PS: This is one of those decisions that for everyone who thinks it is a good idea, there will be someone who will say I have "sold out" or cheapened my reputation, or something to that effect. Ultimately, my customers will be the judge as to whether this is a good idea or not. If they think it is not a good idea, I will stop offering these models. I intend to only sell them through my shop and perhaps, my two US showcases in Nashville and Seattle. All the instruments will receive a final inspection and set-up at our shop. Models and options will be very limited.

These instruments are intended to suppliment my US instruments, not to replace them"


Sounds pretty familiar to what I've seen here since the Warwick announcement.

I'll be honest, I went out in search of a Japanese-made MetroLine, because I have huge respect for the line and wanted to grab one before they either dry up or jump in price. That being said, I am sure the new Warwick operation will work out just fine, just like the then maligned Japanese operation did back in the early 2000s. Change can be difficult and uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it necessarily bad.

SPG

my first Sadowsky was a Metroline WL, and I eventually came to prefer a wider nut, so I sold it in the TB classifieds. Not too many "2nd label" basses that can command $2k on the used market, so that there attests to their quality. Loved the black cherry metallic too. I replaced the ML with a used NYC from the TB classifieds to save the time waiting on a new Sadowksy order. Stuff is top notch, no matter where it's sourced.

I played a Rockline Warwick 5 for a few years, so made in China, and it was very well made and crafted. I would have no qualms purchasing a Warwick instrument from DE or CN; none at all. Very curious to see them in the flesh when they're available, although I doubt I'll need more than my NYC 4 and 5 currently in my posession!

 

[rmayer]

Are the Sadowsky Neo Straps going to be picked up by Warwick? They're my favorite.

 

[simongpaez]

Are the Sadowsky Neo Straps going to be picked up by Warwick? They're my favorite.

Mine too, hope they are available soon (and at a reasonable price)

 

[StayLow]

First, have you ever played an NYC Sadowsky?

Second, Roger certainly uses CNC fabricated parts; but, there is quite a lot of hand work that goes into the assembly of each bass. Here is a video, well worth your time to view, which gives some sense of what goes into each instrument.


Perhaps, I’m not sure what you mean by your use of the term “quality.” I think of “quality” as denoting the post production, specification compliance checks. In any case, the construction of the instruments most certainly requires a certain amount of hands on time from skilled artisans. Mike Tobias uses essentially the same approach that Roger is using; and I don’t think most players familiar with Mike’s work would consider his instruments in the same construction class as Fender. Drawing a line between “hand made” and production has become somewhat blurred, in terms of the tooling that gets used. The distinction is in the results. My $0.019.

I've owned and gigged one for over a decade.

Thanks, I've seen the video before. It doesn't refute my post, rather supports it.

I agree with what you've written. To clarify what I meant about quality is that I do not suggest the quality is comparable, or less, just because there's the same, or less, hand work or in-house manufacturing done. I care about quality not so much how that quality and consistency not how it achieved.

I also care about accuracy...

 

[StayLow]

I did not say “hand made”, I very specifically said “hand-built”, which is a very different thing.

I have seen the videos of the craftsmen at Sadowsky NYC painstakingly sanding each neck and neck pocket to “hand-build” a bass from previously CNC’d blanks to make the fit perfect. This is what I am talking about, not some guy going out into the wilds of NYC, chopping down a tree and “hand-making” the bass from a board of wood.

if you are going to attribute my posts to make your point, please ensure you are doing so accurately. Thx.

SPG

That's fair, and my mistake.

If we're going to get into semantics though, most would call what you've just described as "hand-assembled" or "hand-finished" and far more would totally equate "hand-built" with "hand-made".

In any case, my other assertions stand and they're certainly no slag on Sadowsky.

 

[rmayer]

There's no more "hand building" of a NYC Sadowsky than there is of a MIA, or probably even MIM, Fender. Probably less, and certainly less done in-house.

I'm not suggesting that what is done is of the same quality.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fender+factory+tour

I don't believe there's much comparison to the level of "hand building or assembling" between Sadowsky in house and Fender MIA in house, even though Sadowskys are roughly three times the cost of a Fender MIA. A price I would (and have) gladly paid. To compare Sadowsky to Fender MIM's level of quality is venturing into the area of comedy. My first introduction to a Sadowsky was when I sold my Fender Custom Shop Custom Classic Jazz to buy a Metro Hyrbrid. I waited 9 months for the Custom Shop to be built, it had plenty of QC problems and the Metro was perfect. Except for the weight, for me. I traded up to an NYC shortly after that and have been happy ever since then. Currently have a NYC 24 Fret, a Satin Deluxe Verdine White and a Satin Jazz being built.
Everything special about a Sadowsky NYC happens after Roger and crew get the rough CNC'd parts.

 

[Vic]

The person I quoted used the phrase "hand made".

no he didn't, he said "hand building", and you even re-quoted him. BIG difference.

(edit, i see now that you already got corrected on this)

What parts, if any, are hand made, much less made in-house?...

bottom line is, i agree with others, i don't care about manufacturing of parts as long as they're of very high quality, which Roger's certainly are. what i care about is wood selection, neck fitment, fret level, preamp/pickup design/tone, feel, playability, etc.. all the stuff that REALLY matters when you pick it up and play it. IMHO, Roger and his designs are literally flawless when it comes down to that.

I currently own two NYCs, a Japanese MetroLine, and a Japanese MetroExpress. All four basses fire on all eight cylinders, all the time. I can't ask for more than that.

 

[rmayer]

I did not say “hand made”, I very specifically said “hand-built”, which is a very different thing.

I have seen the videos of the craftsmen at Sadowsky NYC painstakingly sanding each neck and neck pocket to “hand-build” a bass from previously CNC’d blanks to make the fit perfect. This is what I am talking about, not some guy going out into the wilds of NYC, chopping down a tree and “hand-making” the bass from a board of wood.

if you are going to attribute my posts to make your point, please ensure you are doing so accurately. Thx.

SPG

That would be those "other guys" still from Brooklyn.

 

[Vic]

I don't believe there's much comparison to the level of "hand building or assembling" between Sadowsky in house and Fender MIA in house, even though Sadowskys are roughly three times the cost of a Fender MIA...

FWIW, per my other post, I think a more fair comparison than his would be the Custom Shop anyway, in which case the price is at least a lot closer.

 

[Vic]

That would be those "other guys" still from Brooklyn.

lol, and SO many others, but the bread and butter for those luthiers (word chosen deliberately here) is not at all the same... "Fender-ish" designs are not their mainstream at all. Totally different vision.

 

[Littlewing6283]

anyone have any pics of any ice blue metallic basses ? Got the black 4 string inbound but dont have a fiver so pulled the trigger on an ice blue metallic from the Sadowsky site. was just curious if anyone else had the same color.

 

[Littlewing6283]

also have been putting builds together on the sadowsky site, I think im going to start saving up and will try to get into an NYC next year

 

[Bass Viking]

Regarding “hand-made”, CNC, etc. To me “hand-made” is not a selling point. Attention to detail and rigorous standards (not to mention great customer service) on the other hand...

True. I mean, Wishbasses are handmade.

 

[Tjluke]

anyone have any pics of any ice blue metallic basses ?