Club Sadowsky!!!

[roller]

Members have to post a video to this thread of yourself doing an impression of Roger.

How do you get a Sadowsky club member number? Is there a secret handshake?

 

[Fran Diaz]

Yes ma'am!... In the order of acquisition...

@BluesyCat
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@Vic
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@tombowlus
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That's a badass trio right there!!!

Really minor complain here: why are the 4 string super pickups so big? As big as their 5 string counterparts? IMO, they stand out too much.

 

[WorktheWood]

I agree. But I also think they look a little too big even on the 5's.

Really minor complain here: why are the 4 string super pickups so big? As big as their 5 string counterparts? IMO, they stand out too much.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Really minor complain here: why are the 4 string super pickups so big? As big as their 5 string counterparts? IMO, they stand out too much.

I'll wager a benjamin that it's because Roger's priority is the ears, not the eyes*.

Similarly, I was talking to the Nordstrand shop awhile back about J5 replacement pickups, and happened to mention that the pickups on the Nordy VJ5 looked extra wide, as if they were for 6 string. The response was, "good eye, you are correct about the width, but those wider coils sound better to Carey".

*The big buckers are not Fendery, but there's really no other way to get the desired versatility into a single pickup... and FWIW I think they look cool (4 or 5 string).

 

[Vic]

Really minor complain here: why are the 4 string super pickups so big? As big as their 5 string counterparts? IMO, they stand out too much.

I agree. But I also think they look a little too big even on the 5's.

interesting... i hadn't even noticed or thought of that. i guess ironically, i think they look kinda' badass... and that was even before i decided to get one... actually part of the reason, i suppose, tho of course not the biggest part of the reason, which was sound.

that said, even tho cosmetically they worked for me, i'm betting @Fuzzbass is on point on this one.

 

[WorktheWood]

I'm not sure I understand what Carey is saying in regards to the wider coils. Is he is saying wider, meaning the width of a pickup from bridge to neck, or wider meaning from bass strings to treble, which I've always known this to be referred to as pickup length? If by wider he is meaning length, I believe the longer jazz style single coil pickup looks better in the longer shell casings for 5 string. However, the length of the shell casing does not really effect the size of the coil. The coil size is determined by the string spacing, the bobbin size and ultimately the size of the shell casing, specifically the width(bridge to neck). There's only so much wire that will fit in a jazz bass type of pickup cover, the length doesn't come in to play.

I actually wish Roger offered longer single covers as an option. I'd be fine if he put his standard pickups in them, I just like the looks of the longer pickups like what Fender and Alleva uses.

As for why Roger chose these particular pickups, I'm sure it was for tone. Of course, there are no other pickups out there that really do what these do so his options are very limited. For these pickups to get in the ballpark of their intended goal, a large pickup cover would be required to fit all the wire needed. I don't think it looks bad, it certainly wouldn't keep me from buying a Sadowsky with those pickups if I liked the tone.

I'll wager a benjamin that it's because Roger's priority is the ears, not the eyes*.

Similarly, I was talking to the Nordstrand shop awhile back about J5 replacement pickups, and happened to mention that the pickups on the Nordy VJ5 looked extra wide, as if they were for 6 string. The response was, "good eye, you are correct about the width, but those wider coils sound better to Carey".

*The big buckers are not Fendery, but there's really no other way to get the desired versatility into a single pickup... and FWIW I think they look cool (4 or 5 string).

 

[SteveC]

Do you use nickel or stainless steel? I have nickel on my 5JJ now, but have thought about trying SS again, even though this bass is plenty bright already. I used to use DR Hi Beams on everything. I think this had SS on it when I got it but they were a little worn so I put on what I hade which was D'Addario nickel rounds.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I'm not sure I understand what Carey is saying in regards to the wider coils.

Nordstrand makes "standard" J5 pickups (not so extended past the strings), but again, word direct from Nordstrand was that they felt the extended pickup shape (and coil, I assume) delivered better tone for 5-string. I didn't ask why -- moot point because I needed the "standard" J5 replacement set.

 

[WorktheWood]

Nordstrand makes "standard" J5 pickups (not so extended past the strings), but again, word direct from Nordstrand was that they felt the extended pickup shape (and coil, I assume) delivered better tone for 5-string. I didn't ask why -- moot point because I needed the "standard" J5 replacement set.

I like the look of the extended, at least on the full size jazz shape, but don't see how they can possibly sound better or different as the extra length isn't filled up more wire or anything. I'm not sure the longer pickups would look better than the shorter ones on a Sadowsky with the down-sized body.

 

[Vic]

I like the look of the extended, at least on the full size jazz shape, but don't see how they can possibly sound better or different as the extra length isn't filled up more wire or anything. I'm not sure the longer pickups would look better than the shorter ones on a Sadowsky with the down-sized body.

are you SURE about that? it was my understanding the extra length (or width, i suppose) of the pickup was only because the coils were that long.

the only other reason of course is if you're trying to fill a route, but i'm not sure why a route would be that long unless the pickup was defining that out of a design requirement.

keep in mind the distances between and from end-end of the pole pieces does not strictly define the maximum size of the coil, only the minimum size.

i welcome learning here.

 

[WorktheWood]

You can't fill out the ends of the coil more than the sides of the coil will allow: meaning you can't wind a coil heavy on the ends and skinny in the middle. The width of the pickup cover is pretty narrow on a jazz bass. Inside you have magnets that are typically 3/16" in size which makes the available room on either side even narrower. This is the amount of space within the cover you have available to fill with wire. The thickness of coil, or amount of wire on the ends of the coil is equal to the amount in the middle of the coil. I'm sure that I'm explaining it very well.

are you SURE about that? it was my understanding the extra length (or width, i suppose) of the pickup was only because the coils were that long.

the only other reason of course is if you're trying to fill a route, but i'm not sure why a route would be that long unless the pickup was defining that out of a design requirement.

keep in mind the distances between and from end-end of the pole pieces does not strictly define the maximum size of the coil, only the minimum size.

i welcome learning here.

 

[Vic]

You can't fill out the ends of the coil more than the sides of the coil will allow: meaning you can't wind a coil heavy on the ends and skinny in the middle. The width of the pickup cover is pretty narrow on a jazz bass. Inside you have magnets that are typically 3/16" in size which makes the available room on either side even narrower. This is the amount of space within the cover you have available to fill with wire. The thickness of coil, or amount of wire on the ends of the coil is equal to the amount in the middle of the coil. I'm sure that I'm explaining it very well.

sorry, i should have clarified what i was talking about.

(disclaimer, i'm not a pickup designer)...

i am assuming (potentially incorrectly) you can make the coil longer if you wanted without having to make it thicker. in other words, the coil would simply extend beyond the last pole piece... there would be some air space between the end pole piece and the inside of the actual coil at that end... implying some "dummy" bobbins to run the coil around (as if there was another pole piece out that far). that would give you more wire, but i assume the same number of turns.

i'm not sure if that is practical, but it would have tonal impact of course, which i suppose could be good for some people. otherwise the only explanation is to fill routes, in which case i'd ask why the heck were they made so long? super duper blade of some kind previously installed?

i should add, i'm assuming any reason for doing it is based on functional/dimensional need. if this is purely cosmetic, just for the sake of making the pickup visually bigger with no functional requirement, then i (personally) don't like it.

 

[mikezimmerman]

My understanding is the same as yours. It seems to me that if you want to ensure that the tone of the B and G strings is consistent with the E, A, and D strings, it might help if the geometry of the coil in relation to the pole pieces is similar, so the pole piece is not is close proximity to the end of the coil.

sorry, i should have clarified what i was talking about.

(disclaimer, i'm not a pickup designer)...

i am assuming (potentially incorrectly) you can make the coil longer if you wanted without having to make it thicker. in other words, the coil would simply extend beyond the last pole piece... there would be some air space between the end pole piece and the inside of the actual coil at that end... implying some "dummy" bobbins to run the coil around (as if there was another pole piece out that far). that would give you more wire, but i assume the same number of turns.

i'm not sure if that is practical, but it would have tonal impact of course, which i suppose could be good for some people. otherwise the only explanation is to fill routes, in which case i'd ask why the heck were they made so long? super duper blade of some kind?

i should add, i'm assuming any reason for doing it is based on functional/dimensional need. if this is purely cosmetic, just for the sake of making the pickup visually bigger with no functional requirement, then i (personally) don't like it.

 

[marchone]

I’m glad there are people like Roger out there that are smarter than me and more interested in the technical side of things than I am. I just get to reap the success of their labor!

(Why does that sound highly unethical?)

 

[WorktheWood]

You certainly could make the coil longer by extending the bobbin and utilizing some sort of spacer after the B string pole piece to lengthen it thereby not requiring more wire. I haven't seen any make do this but it's certainly possible.

sorry, i should have clarified what i was talking about.

(disclaimer, i'm not a pickup designer)...

i am assuming (potentially incorrectly) you can make the coil longer if you wanted without having to make it thicker. in other words, the coil would simply extend beyond the last pole piece... there would be some air space between the end pole piece and the inside of the actual coil at that end... implying some "dummy" bobbins to run the coil around (as if there was another pole piece out that far). that would give you more wire, but i assume the same number of turns.

i'm not sure if that is practical, but it would have tonal impact of course, which i suppose could be good for some people. otherwise the only explanation is to fill routes, in which case i'd ask why the heck were they made so long? super duper blade of some kind previously installed?

i should add, i'm assuming any reason for doing it is based on functional/dimensional need. if this is purely cosmetic, just for the sake of making the pickup visually bigger with no functional requirement, then i (personally) don't like it.

 

[WorktheWood]

@Vic this pic of a Nord J5 for a Fender illustrates what I'm talking about. If you look you will see how much empty space there is from the end of the coil to the end of the bobbin. Then look at the side of the coil and see how little space there is left of the bobbin.
https://images.reverb.com/image/upl...,t_large/v1432894351/fo4trluyhedc7y18wqgl.jpg

 

[Fuzzbass]

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe each coil (windings) is the same size, which may allow better humbucking performance. Of course the pole pieces differ from one pickup half to the other.

That's my Sadowsky P5, currently sporting an Aguilar pickup. Another side note: the P5 pickup is the same size as the traditional Fender four string P.

 

[WorktheWood]

Yes, in a split coil design for a 5 string P Bass it is best practice to have both coils the same size allowing for equal number of winds. Typically in the 5 string P Bass design they use two non-magnetized slugs under the cover for the D and G string to accomplish this.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe each coil is the same size, which may allow better humbucking performance. Of course the pole pieces differ from one pickup half to the other.

View attachment 4708998

 

[Vic]

@Vic this pic of a Nord J5 for a Fender illustrates what I'm talking about. If you look you will see how much empty space there is from the end of the coil to the end of the bobbin. Then look at the side of the coil and see how little space there is left of the bobbin.
https://images.reverb.com/image/upl...,t_large/v1432894351/fo4trluyhedc7y18wqgl.jpg

yeah, i've seen those before (even used them, I have Fender V's too), but those don't look nearly as exaggerated as the ones in the gold bass, which i thought was what was driving all this.

in short, this...

vs this...
Link Removed

at least to me seems like the gold bass, even given the little bit extra for the cover, just has more going on there.

 

[Fuzzbass]

seems like the gold bass, even given the little bit extra for the cover, just has more going on there

I agree, that's why I brought up the P5 pickup. Nordstrand makes J5 pickups without the extra on the ends, however the shop said their extended J5 pickups were done for tone, so it's fair to hypothesize that the windings are extended, perhaps via spacers/inactive slugs.


Back to Sadowsky: I don't think any of us knows what's inside the Super P4/Super J4... I was just speculating that they might need to be that large for tone (i.e. wasn't just done for manufacturing convenience).


P.S. A Super P/Super J is definitely on my GAS list...