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Club Sadowsky!!!

#7,701
I've had alot of experience with the Big Singles and I don't think Ken and Carey's disagreement is as big as it seems re: the tone of these pickups.

Most people would equate a relatively bright, mid focused dual coil pickup with a "fatter, meatier, punchier" J pickup. You can call the Big Single either one, but it sounds the same.

I have had alot of Bart dual coils and the Big Singles. I don't think the Big Singles sound like Bart duals...they are considerably brighter than regular Bart BC voiced duals (like you would find in a Pedulla or Modulus).

However, I don't hear a big difference between Carey's duals and his Big Singles. The Big Singles are a bit darker and more even-responding than the Duals and, of course, a bit cheaper. The Bigs are a hair punchier in the low mids. I agree with Ken that they are somewhat like a dual coil, just not a Bart dual coil :)

So, my take:

Overwound, fatter sounding J pickup = Big Singles sound
Punchy, bright dual coil in series = Big Singles sound
 
#7,704
Re: big singles vs bart soaps...

I was gonna' stay out of this, but I'll just make a general point. Most of the bart soaps I've played through definitely don't have as much going on in what I like to call the "lower treble" range. It's the area that really brings out the roundwound ring, and maybe even a bit of "clank" depending on amp settings and playing style. I like to have a presence there, and I've always missed it in most of the bart soaps I've played. However, I finally got a chance to spend some time with a big single'd bass, generally a J config (as opposed to like a heavily bridge oriented config like a Sadowsky 24Fret/Modern). I definitely hear a lot more of that in the big singles than I've ever heard in the usual bart soaps.

I think we all agree the big singles don't sound the same as the more typical J type pickups, so I think that point is made/agreed upon, but I do think they're at least comparable in some significant areas. In the big singles vs bart soaps, I hear a pretty big difference in what I consider to be a very important part of the frequency range, at least for my tastes, so I would not personally consider them to be that comparable.

FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, blah blah blah... :)
 
#7,706
I wish I still had this bass. 24F5 with EMG 40J's

Sadowsky24F51stgig.jpg
 
#7,710
Fascinating discussion, even if it seems a little contentious.

It is certain that flux aperture and coil design have a pretty significant influence on the player's perception of tone. Opening up the aperture will emphasize certain modes and reduce others. Whether or not this is a good thing depends entirely on the tonal perception/goals of the player.

To Vic's earlier point, my Alembic S1 pups have a quite wide coil aperture, retain the "clank," but give up some of the upper harmonic structure in exchange for a "warmer/fatter" tone vs traditional J coils. I find Barts tend to be somewhere in the middle, but curiously often tend to have a lot less clank; and I have presumed that to be due to some character of the humbucking design. So, comparing single coils to humbuckers gets problematic - and clearly not what Ken intended.

IMO, it is great that makers like Carey are pushing the envelope in terms of offering variations in the single coil architecture. This gives players choice, and it is perfectly OK for different players to prefer one over the other.

Again, IMO, it is now time for the pup design to move in the direction of incorporating the dummy coils, as in the early Alembic designs, to retain the SC tonal response while CORRECTLY eliminating the 60 Hz(+harmonics) noise.

Also, when are we going to start seeing non Rube Goldberg methods to set pup height - another pretty significant factor? I mean, I only have so much patience for taking the strings off and resetting the shims under the pups before going "OK good enough."

Anyway, those are the two SC factors that continue to bug me as a player. And, yes, they are factors that are appropriate to the Sadowsky thread, IMO.

As to Carey et al other designs, I say bring them on and vive la difference.
 
#7,713
KJung said:
I really took this thread down the rat hole. I'm deleting all my posts, and made John Turner (mod) aware of my stupid OT here, so maybe he will clean up the rest.

Sorry again....
Click to expand...

Ken, you were giving your honest opinion so even if you are wrong, which I'm not stating (my english ain't good enough to understand the difference between a J tone and a bigger J tone :D), you have brought some life to this thread and since Roger has chosen this brand of pickups as stock for some of his basses, I think that you are completely "in topic".

Regarding the pickups, I remember trying a bass with Big singles at the shop and I found them to be noisier than the Sadowsky single coils. I also prefered the Sadowsky SC tone so it was a no brainer for me, but I can understand why others can choose those pickups depending on the music they are going to play.
 
#7,714
hey guys, i'm going to take this opportunity to ask you all nicely to keep the thread on topic.

i'm not going to delete anybody's posts, but encourage anyone who is so inclined and wants to keep this on topic to do so.

also, remember, folks are entitled to their opinions about things, and remember too, tone is very subjective. talking about it is, on a lot of levels, like trying to describe color to a blind man.

without the benefit of recordings, it's going to be difficult to have any kind of discussion on the topic be anything other than just opinion-trading.
 
#7,715
Is it at all possible that someone compiles a list of RECORDINGS that prominently feature the most obvious examples of the standard, retro, and modern J bass tones??? For instance, I REALLY want to hear what Ken (and anyone else) considers "standard jazz tone", "jazz bass on steroids tone", Marcus Miller tone, 60's jazz tone, etc., etc. The list could go on.

Perhaps if we have a list of solid recordings, we could compare and contrast and maybe reign in the concept of "subjectivity" a bit. There's got to be some set definitiveness on what tone is and isn't, from pickup to pickup, bass to bass, decade to decade.

Unfortunately, it would be impossible to factor in the skill set/playing style of the player, because each player's fingerings would sound different on a given instrument, pickup, amp set-up, etc.

Maybe this is a dissertation-type project for the guys at BassNutz, etc.?

How about this, let's start off simple. Someone post an MP3 or link to what is unabashedly obviously, "that Sadowsky sound" and that "70's jazz bass sound". Go!!!
 
#7,717
Marcus said:
You said that they were closer to Bartolini pickups than they were to single-coil pickups and respectfully, I disagree. Frankly, I find your tone condescending as well :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

dont you have some clips floating around of your sad with big singles? i think i remember checking them out along with an a/b of a bass with ultrajazz pickups. i remember being able to tell the difference because the other bass sounded stereotypically humcancelling while the other did have more of that single coil grind. that was a pretty helpful clip.

how these pickups react with different pres is pretty significant too. the clip you posted with the sad pre sounded pretty jazz'ish while a clip posted in the nordy thread of gary's bass with big singles didnt sound that "fendery" (for lack of a better term) to me.
 
#7,718
Jay Terrien said:
Is it at all possible that someone compiles a list of RECORDINGS that prominently feature the most obvious examples of the standard, retro, and modern J bass tones??? For instance, I REALLY want to hear what Ken (and anyone else) considers "standard jazz tone", "jazz bass on steroids tone", Marcus Miller tone, 60's jazz tone, etc., etc. The list could go on.
Click to expand...

Lot's of threads on this. On a somewhat related topic that is Sadowsky specific, I put a clip up of my NYC ash/maple vintage with Sadowsky singles through a 'clean but old school rig in post 135 (I think). The clip was really meant to highlight the rig for a TBer, but since I used the Sadowsky, I thought I'd post it up.

While I typically play with a cab with a tweeter to get that classic Sadowsky sizzle, there is something very cool about the 'Sadowsky with Sadowsky singles' tone to me through a more old school cab (in this case a single 15). I sure wouldn't call it 'Fendery', but more 'Sadowsky with some grunt' or something (especially with those grindy, mid present Sadowsky Stainless Steel Blue labels, which I have come to love!). Lot's more grunt than I typically have in my sound with that bass, but it's cool in its own way IMO.

That bass is probably my least 'Fendery' sounding bass, but Roger does a magnificent job of making it sound 'J-like' but all Sadowsky at the same time to my ear (especially with his wonderful single coil pickups). IMO:)... really... IMO
 
#7,719

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