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Compensating for bad drummer
- Thread starter Comrade Momenta
- Start date
Just spoke to the singer and guitarist about it. As expected it was met with hostility from them. Singer is a good friend of mine but she can't be expected to make any decisions at all. I had to fire a guy who repeatedly made unwarranted sexual advances at her(slapping her buttocks, and so forth) and she was still trying to make it work out with him in the band until I just straight up got rid of him.
The guitarist is really good friends with him but I didn't expect as much hostility from him about it as I did. The guitarist is by far the best player of the group and I'm sure he gets just as bored as I do playing the same songs over and over again. Then again though these guys are tight so I'm pretty sure he could care less because they are such good friends, plus he makes music by himself during the week so this is a side project for him at best.
Gonna have a phone conference with everyone tonight. I'll post how it went. Drummer actually sent me a text message to the band saying how he thinks we're going too fast.
Spending more than a month on two easy songs is going too fast?? 
I was in a cover band, and we got a gig at The Garden opening for U2....I said no way! We are going too fast!
(Just kiddin....but too fast doesn't make sense. )
Slappin the singers behind? Not very cool..... unless she has great tailfeathers!
Honestly..drummer will be defensive in front of others.. (any position in the band will be defensive if they are a little weak, and in front of other musicians)
If u are gonna save it....u have to work alone with him. He has to recognize the problem, go straight to acceptance, and has got to want to fix it. Aka work with the bass player very slowly with a metronome...on all parts of the song.
Also...
I bet you could substitute the word SINGER in all sections that have the word DRUMMER....lol
Rokkitt
(Just kiddin....but too fast doesn't make sense. )
Slappin the singers behind? Not very cool..... unless she has great tailfeathers!
Honestly..drummer will be defensive in front of others.. (any position in the band will be defensive if they are a little weak, and in front of other musicians)
If u are gonna save it....u have to work alone with him. He has to recognize the problem, go straight to acceptance, and has got to want to fix it. Aka work with the bass player very slowly with a metronome...on all parts of the song.
Also...
I bet you could substitute the word SINGER in all sections that have the word DRUMMER....lol
Rokkitt
This doesn't sound to me like he isn't capable of learning two songs. This sounds like he isn't bothering to learn them. It's one thing if his skills are lacking and he needs a little help. It's quite another if he just doesn't want to do any work.
My earlier suggestion to help him get better seems less practical now that you've made the situation clearer. Now I'm thinking more along the lines of "this guy's got to go". If the other band members are vehement about keeping him around, you might be looking at needing to move on yourself.
The drummer in my last band (in fact tonight is my final show with them) was fairly decent. But he had two bad habits. First one is the ever popular speeding up about a minute into the song. The second was his horrific lack of drum maintenance. He showed up at a gig once and I picked up his snare and the bottom head was half ripped off. I said "oh no! Did I break your drum head?" And he said "Nah that happened a few days ago". So he played the gig with basically no bottom snare head. And he was more than fine with it. Yep.
one of the most unsatisfying things for a bassist is playing with a poor drummer.
- Oct 18, 2012
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We just replaced our drummer. His timing was all over the place and there were questions about his commitment. We spoke to him about this on several occasions but he never improved. On rehearsal nights he was always the last to arrive and the first to leave, usually within a minute or two after we stopped playing. We told him that we felt that he wasn't enjoying himself and that he was still having issues with timing.
Sounds like a good move. I'm not sure if there's anything worse than a band member who isn't enjoying what he's doing. That will drag the whole band down. Not to mention having to deal with a passive aggressive.
You may want to find a drummer on the side... Get together with them once per week, get some material together.
And start a new band from the rhythm section up.
And start a new band from the rhythm section up.
I'm with BMGecko on this one. If the other three are this tight and you and they have different standards for music and rehearsal, then it may be best in the long run for you to find or build a situation that's a better match for you.
Imagine how much practicing, scouting, or promoting you could be doing with the energy you're spending on this?
Imagine how much practicing, scouting, or promoting you could be doing with the energy you're spending on this?
Live with it until you can find a new band, or a replacement for the drummer. Life is way too short to tolerate playing with lesser musicians. Don't feel bad or guilty, they'll find someone to play bass in the group if you leave.
Cant stress this enough and as I've said here before I wish the "rest of the band" could realize just how frustrating and maddening it is for a bass player to try to lock in with a drummer that has no feel and bad timing. One of the main reasons I'm leaving my current gig is the BL's reluctance to get another drummer. How he ever got hired in the first place is a mystery and after 18 months he hasn't improved one iota and I'm no longer willing to accept it. There's only so much compensating the rest of the band can do for someone that just doesn't "have it."
I have to agree with many here who say that you need to fire him and find a better drummer.
An oft-quoted adage on Talkbass (appearing in other threads) is from Chet Baker: "It takes a really great drummer to be better than no drummer."
It really sucks to have to fire band members (over the years I've had the misfortune of firing two from our band - one a founding member - and I may have to can a third person in a couple of weeks, I hope not), and I know that it really sucks, but if the rhythm isn't right it matters little what else is going on. It's foundational to most modern forms of music and is as critical as a sound heartbeat for health. You can't screw around with it.
My .02.
An oft-quoted adage on Talkbass (appearing in other threads) is from Chet Baker: "It takes a really great drummer to be better than no drummer."
It really sucks to have to fire band members (over the years I've had the misfortune of firing two from our band - one a founding member - and I may have to can a third person in a couple of weeks, I hope not), and I know that it really sucks, but if the rhythm isn't right it matters little what else is going on. It's foundational to most modern forms of music and is as critical as a sound heartbeat for health. You can't screw around with it.
My .02.
I have a simple answer.
Click track.
Tell the band that you feel timing is off, and you want to put a click on for some of the practices. No one worth their salt should object to that. Record the band to the click, then record the band without the click, and lay a click over the 2nd recording for those who cannot see the drummer sux. Hard to argue with the facts on the second recording.
Other option is tell the drummer you like him, and nothing personal, but his time is off, and you want to spend some time just the two of you on timing and sync issues. When he bags out, note for the rest of the band he is not willing to put the effort in.
Yet another option is find any good drummer and ask them to lay down drum tracks for you on an mp3 file for the songs you want, sans any flashy stuff, just solid beat. Then walk into practice, play a song, and tell the drummer to try and do it just that solid, or play along with the click as a dual drum deal.
Click track.
Tell the band that you feel timing is off, and you want to put a click on for some of the practices. No one worth their salt should object to that. Record the band to the click, then record the band without the click, and lay a click over the 2nd recording for those who cannot see the drummer sux. Hard to argue with the facts on the second recording.
Other option is tell the drummer you like him, and nothing personal, but his time is off, and you want to spend some time just the two of you on timing and sync issues. When he bags out, note for the rest of the band he is not willing to put the effort in.
Yet another option is find any good drummer and ask them to lay down drum tracks for you on an mp3 file for the songs you want, sans any flashy stuff, just solid beat. Then walk into practice, play a song, and tell the drummer to try and do it just that solid, or play along with the click as a dual drum deal.
Good Drummers make music a drug.... Bad ones make it a job
Fire him and get a good one
Fire him and get a good one
I'm new to bass playing but I've got 40+ years experience playing in bands on other instruments. It is all too common experience to have a drummer who relies on the bass to keep the groove - and this is bad, bad, bad (in my opinion). The best experiences I have in bands is when everyone listens to the drummer and keeps time with him - the mushy sounding bands are the ones where the drummer is chasing the bass (or the piano - or whoever it is that decides they need to push the tempo).
I was in a well respected band where the bass and piano both had always pushed the tempo and the drummer followed them - the drummer was considered top notch (not by me) but refused to practice with a metronome (and in studio sessions where the producer wanted a click, the drummer simply couldn't follow it). One concert, the bassist was stuck in traffic so I was asked to provide keyboard bass until he arrived - I locked in and followed the drummer (this is how I was brought up) and the drummer kept yelling at me to pick up the tempo --- haha --- seemed absurd to me but I started playing ahead of him and let him chase me and I guess this is just the only way he knew how to drum (I started out practicing with metronome - and when I work with good drummers they always comment on how nice it is that I lock in and follow the drummer).
So ... yeah ... having a drummer who can keep the groove is critical. Get that and then if everyone in the band locks in on the drummer you have a tight groove.
I've worked with some great drummers who use a metronome when we play live (in headphones - or you can get a vibrating type - seat of pants feedback).
I was in a well respected band where the bass and piano both had always pushed the tempo and the drummer followed them - the drummer was considered top notch (not by me) but refused to practice with a metronome (and in studio sessions where the producer wanted a click, the drummer simply couldn't follow it). One concert, the bassist was stuck in traffic so I was asked to provide keyboard bass until he arrived - I locked in and followed the drummer (this is how I was brought up) and the drummer kept yelling at me to pick up the tempo --- haha --- seemed absurd to me but I started playing ahead of him and let him chase me and I guess this is just the only way he knew how to drum (I started out practicing with metronome - and when I work with good drummers they always comment on how nice it is that I lock in and follow the drummer).
So ... yeah ... having a drummer who can keep the groove is critical. Get that and then if everyone in the band locks in on the drummer you have a tight groove.
I've worked with some great drummers who use a metronome when we play live (in headphones - or you can get a vibrating type - seat of pants feedback).
Let's review:
You can either resign yourself to the way things are, or find a different band. If you do choose to leave, don't blame the drummer. You don't have to give any specific reasons. Just state that it's not working out for you so you wish them luck but you're going to look for something else.
- Drummer can't play two simple songs after one month.
- Drummer believes the band is moving "too fast" meaning expectations of two songs in one month are too high.
- Singer doesn't like confrontation/change so she doesn't want to address the problem
- Guitar player is close friends with the drummer and very loyal to him. Reacts with hostility at the mention of replacing him.
- Singer and guitar player seem to be okay with the current state of things
You can either resign yourself to the way things are, or find a different band. If you do choose to leave, don't blame the drummer. You don't have to give any specific reasons. Just state that it's not working out for you so you wish them luck but you're going to look for something else.
Dude I’m in the SAME BOAT as you! I’ve dealt with this in the band before my current one also.in the previous band they had been together about 16 months before i joined so they already knew these 25-30 songs. Or so I thought. My drummer EVERY REHEARSAL,EVERY GIG which wasn’t many would make the same mistakes. It was like as if we never addressed them and fixed them at rehearsal. He was the one to ALWAYS start the shouting match and have drama. Come to find out, he practiced the songs literally by air drumming. He would put headphones on,take his drums sticks and air drum. And he had no shame in telling me that’s how he learned the songs. NO WONDER WHY he was out of breathe all the time. After one quick sonf we’d have to play 3 slower songs. Was a joke. I left after 14 months.
Fast forward to my current band. It’s a Guns N‘ Roses tribute band. GREAT talented singer, A SPECIAL lead guitarist. Guy is above the average great players.our rhythm guitarist is solid and of course there’s me on bass and I can describe myself as a good rock n roll/punk/pop bass player. My current drummer I had doubts about at the audition. When I auditioned he happens to be auditioning the same time as me. After the audition I was loading up my gear to leave and he’s like “ I’d be happy with the lineup we just had .” I was kind and say “yeah we rocked.” Thinking that would be the last time I’d ever see him. 5 months later and we’re band mates still. Problem is,he’s no better or doesn’t know the material any better then the audition or 1st rehearsal. Me and my lead guitarist have spent a good amount of time helping him with his drum lines,timing,fills etc. we’ve literally had rehearsal with just 3 of us for this. Just for every week to start over again. I’m at the breaking point. I’m wondering how much time he’s actually taking to practice and learn these songs if any at all. It’s not like it’s been 4 days or 4 hours. This is 4 almost 5 months. He’s even worse now. Finally I’m addressing it cause it’s now or never. I kept holding out hope but I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s not the guy for the gig
Fast forward to my current band. It’s a Guns N‘ Roses tribute band. GREAT talented singer, A SPECIAL lead guitarist. Guy is above the average great players.our rhythm guitarist is solid and of course there’s me on bass and I can describe myself as a good rock n roll/punk/pop bass player. My current drummer I had doubts about at the audition. When I auditioned he happens to be auditioning the same time as me. After the audition I was loading up my gear to leave and he’s like “ I’d be happy with the lineup we just had .” I was kind and say “yeah we rocked.” Thinking that would be the last time I’d ever see him. 5 months later and we’re band mates still. Problem is,he’s no better or doesn’t know the material any better then the audition or 1st rehearsal. Me and my lead guitarist have spent a good amount of time helping him with his drum lines,timing,fills etc. we’ve literally had rehearsal with just 3 of us for this. Just for every week to start over again. I’m at the breaking point. I’m wondering how much time he’s actually taking to practice and learn these songs if any at all. It’s not like it’s been 4 days or 4 hours. This is 4 almost 5 months. He’s even worse now. Finally I’m addressing it cause it’s now or never. I kept holding out hope but I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s not the guy for the gig
