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Completely “silent” stage: pros/cons, tips/tricks?

So, we have been gigging and experimenting with a very silent stage (as is the big trend), and not bothering with bringing amps. It definitely broadens the possibilities for lower volume gigs, like a restaurant or private function, and it’s a feature we can promote. We can keep it all under 80db, for example.

We even sunk the pads of the e-drum-kit INTO some drum shells, which look fantastic on stage, but retain that volume and effect trigger controls all via the mixers. Each time, we try to improve the balance and IEM experience for ourselves. And the sound through the JBL PA/Subs is awesome, very lush and we have had great compliments. It’s still very odd not FEELING that air move, all that stage vibration and the drums in the chest.

What are your experiences? Is investing in a “silent” setup worth the effort, or are you ride-or-die about your amps? What tips or advice, gear or issues have you had transitioning? What would you have liked to have been told beforehand?
 
I am out of the game, but hopefully some of my experience is still relevant enough to help.

The tactile experience can vary. On a riser or hollow stage you will feel the vibrations through your feet. Stand close to the subs and you will feel vibrations in the air.

There are various tactile transducers.
1. Eich Bassboard or similar is a small platform you stand on that vibrates. It's driven by an amp.
2. BackBeat is a similar technology that you wear.

While a tactile transducer would be sort of cool, I didn't really feel the need to use one. This is one of those YMMV things.

My experience started in the mid 90s. For drums we used a TrapKat to trigger a drum module. The mixer was a Mackie 1604 VLZ, the number of inputs and sends was pretty limite. This meant we had to share mixes as there was not enough sends available for everyone to get a personal mix. I am a big fan of everyone getting their own stereo mix, but some people seem to prefer mono.

For the stereo mixes, I suggest vocals and bass instruments should be centered. Other sound sources should be panned in 3 to 5dB intervals across the horizon. Max panning for most sound sources should not exceed about 15 to 20dB left and right. Your personal sounds should be centered or close to the center. The exception that can be panned harder than 20dB is a good stereo reverb.

The reason for this advice on panning is something called binaural summation. Basically if you hear something equally in both ears, it seems 6db louder than if you hear the same level in only one ear. The more something is panned, the less benefit you get from binaural summing. In order to compensate, the tendency is to turn up, which exposes the listener to a higher SPL. Best to keep the SPL as low as possible.

Our drummer initially insisted on controlling the mix of his set in the drum sound module and sending only a single stereo mix. Part of the reason is he wanted to reduce how much stuff he had to patch. It did not work well and everyone was complaining about how awful the drum mix was, including the drummer. After the first tour, I wired the system to break out the most import drums to individual channels (bass, kick, snare, high hat). I believe we also used a stereo mix for toms and second stereo mix for cymbals. This was necessary because we only had 16 inputs. Every one was a lot happier with the resulting mix. I built a cable loom for the drummer, so he did not have to deal with individual cables.

We did not use audience mics on that first system as we did not have the budget or resources. Lack of audience mics can cause the band to feel disconnected from the audience. Systems I helped design in following years used a couple of shotgun mics aimed at the audience. We also rigged up mute pedals for the vocal mics so the musicians could mute the mains, but still communicate with each other through the monitors. Non latching switches are a good idea, otherwise someone will inevitable forget to unmute their channel.

We also went through quite a bit drama in regards to getting all of the wireless to work reliably. The IEM wireless, in particular, tended to have drop outs. We bought a helical antenna which helped, but did not totally fix the problem. AFAIK the reason the IEMs were less reliable than the wireless mics and instrument packs is because everything used diversity reception except the IEM systems. I believe diversity IEM wireless is available now, but the last time I checked it was expensive.

@s0c9 has some good info you should review in the signature block of any post he writes.
 
We recently had this opportunity. I think it's genre-dependent. My group performed cool jazz and a lot of people like our performance, while another friend of mine did something that I can't put a label on it yet (it sounds like free jazz + Frank Zappa) and I think this kind of music can benefit more from having higher volume.
 
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I'm not tempted because I love amps. Our drummer controls his volume well, and he has a small drumkit (super cute) for when we need to play at lower volume. We've played in a public library, and now the manager invites us regularly. We simply reduce the master volume of our amps according to the level of the drums. Sometimes the guitarist plugs his HX Stomp in the PA (no amp), but I prefer bringing a small amp.

Edit: I haven't measured but I'm sure we can stay under 80 dB with the small drumkit.
 
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In the 2016-2019 timeframe I suffered hearing damage twice from idiots at the board. When "silent stage" was done right, with a qualified tech at the helm, I liked it. But if I'd never worked with the person before, there was no way I could predict what the hell was going to happen in my ears. That's a big reason I mostly quit live music. As for now, I'll consider a show if monitoring is done via wedges because at least I can get away from those and still complete the job. But yeah, those wedge days are mostly gone, the trend is unstoppable, and pretty soon it'll be in-ears or you don't play shows that are worth your time/effort.
 
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If we had this type of thing when I was a roadie in the late '70s early '80s, I might not have so much loud and constant ringing in my ears today. It sucks.

But I have questions (sorry about that). What type of music does your band play? Would music type make a difference in having a quiet stage? Would a guitar player have to change "something" if they didn't have their Marshall stack behind them? How would a violin or sax fit into the staging? What kind of thumping and clicking 'stage noise' would you hear in the front of house if the PA was turned down or off during a performance?

And discuss....
 
Wasnex and others gave you great info; My Original Band went to Ampless Stage setup back in early 2K's; I was incharge of IEM mix and FOH I could get IEM Mix to sound like a quality Stereo CD and what I consider very important we always had consistent 'Stage sound' [so to speak] and could hear all players clearly and equally so we played incredibly 'Tight' which to me as a Listener separates the Boy's from the Men as a Band

I also had a good experience playing a Festival were Sound Team had high quality Monitors facing us as players [No Backline] with individual mixes and mine having Bass and Vocals slightly above rest of mix

When I was in my early 20's the Emotion, Angst and feel was powerful but I got over that quickly dealing with inconsistent Stage Sound and brutal volume and sloppy playing do to chaos of sound on stage; Future Bands I played with with Pro[ish] players things were better but I prefer IEM or Monitor setup
 
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In the 2016-2019 timeframe I suffered hearing damage twice from idiots at the board. When "silent stage" was done right, with a qualified tech at the helm, I liked it. But if I'd never worked with the person before, there was no way I could predict what the hell was going to happen in my ears. That's a big reason I mostly quit live music. As for now, I'll consider a show if monitoring is done via wedges because at least I can get away from those and still complete the job. But yeah, those wedge days are mostly gone, the trend is unstoppable, and pretty soon it'll be in-ears or you don't play shows that are worth your time/smism
This is precisely why most bands on my circuit have gone IEM and bring their own IEM mixer to the gig.
They also have a splitter snake, all usually housed in a rack.
Everyone plugs into splitter snake box. One leg goes to the bands IEM mixer, the other to the house.
The IEM mixes go from the IEM mixers AUX outs to the band members, be that wired or wireless. Each own that aspect along with their own buds.
Band members control their mix via phone/tablets using the WiFi network on the dedicated router attached to IEM mixer.
Simple hookup. FOH runs FOH, band runs their monitor mixes!
 
This is precisely why most bands on my circuit have gone IEM and bring their own IEM mixer to the gig.
They also have a splitter snake, all usually housed in a rack.
Everyone plugs into splitter snake box. One leg goes to the bands IEM mixer, the other to the house.
The IEM mixes go from the IEM mixers AUX outs to the band members, be that wired or wireless. Each own that aspect along with their own buds.
Band members control their mix via phone/tablets using the WiFi network on the dedicated router attached to IEM mixer.
Simple hookup. FOH runs FOH, band runs their monitor mixes!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Same here. Both bands I'm in. Having a stage splitter to separate the monitoring from the FOH allows for complete control of ones own mix on stage, both volume wise and sound/tone wise. Being able to control overall volume to the house by eliminating the (usually) too loud stage amps is a huge selling point to venues too often overrun with bands who can't/won't control their overall volume. One of our bands rocks a fair amount (other is a 60's tribute act, which actually rocks a bit as well) and the ability to do that with complete control over both volume AND instrument tones while playing live sets the standard the other too loud bands get (negatively) judged against.

There will always be the folks who refuse to understand why and how it makes sense to get rid of stage amps (now more than ever) and will never change. You do you. If you can't get "your sound" with todays processors, plus the positives that come with using them (volume control, tone control etc, and how that makes your band more saleable) you haven't spent enough time learning to use one. If you're having issues getting decent paying gigs maybe it's at least in part a too much volume issue? Easy solution. IMO of course, YMMV, blah blah blah.
 
Whatever you do 2 things

Practice IEM use during rehearsals and do not play out until you know how to use it. It will be a guaranteed disaster -- do not just simply test it. Do the entire show in your rehearsal space at least 3 times. If you a hired gun -- it will be a steep learning curve and you will probably sound bad and even cause issues your first gig,

If the PA does not have enough aux sends it will be difficult. I think 8 is a minimum number. Remember the house will already take 1 - 2 . 6 is just barely enough for a 4 piece. You probably need to have one for the bass like the Rolls PM series and a must if you sub a lot so you are not at the mercy of the monitor setup of the FOH or of the band

Learn a thing or 2 from vocalists and acoustic guitar folks who have been plugged to the PA all these years and relying on monitors and what they do for performance,
 
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In an Evanescence-style band I used to play in, the drummer used an electronic kit. This allowed us to do crazy rock shows at house parties no louder than a stereo. House party/basement show gigs were always my favorite.

That band's motto was that we wanted to tour the world AND play your house party. And with live venues kinda going by way of the dodo, the "underground railroad" of basement/backyard/house party gigs (like we used to have in our old punk scene) might make a return. Total "if you know you know" thing. Like on fliers under location we'd put "ask a local punk."
 
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In the 2016-2019 timeframe I suffered hearing damage twice from idiots at the board. When "silent stage" was done right, with a qualified tech at the helm, I liked it. But if I'd never worked with the person before, there was no way I could predict what the hell was going to happen in my ears. That's a big reason I mostly quit live music. As for now, I'll consider a show if monitoring is done via wedges because at least I can get away from those and still complete the job. But yeah, those wedge days are mostly gone, the trend is unstoppable, and pretty soon it'll be in-ears or you don't play shows that are worth your time/effort.
This is an important issue.

A proper IEM system should have brick wall limiters to protect the users. However, in order for the limiters to work properly while providing the necessary protection, they have to be adjusted properly. The audio tech really needs to understand proper gain staging and how the system is configured.

AFAIK the systems I was involved with had at least two layers of limiting. All of the belt packs we chose had limiters. Some of the systems were spec'ed with Aphex Dominators or DBX IEM processors. Both of these had multi-band brick wall limiting. Unfortunately anyone makes hardware like this any more. The last systems I mixed on used digital mixing consoles with the dynamic processor on each send configured to function as a limiter
 
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If you can mix your own songs to your ears it's a better experience. You can also get used to anything over time.


One would assume this, but IME most musicians don't know how to mix and results can be pretty awful.

The mistake most people make is the only turn things up. To manage a mix you need to keep the overall signal in a certain range, which means turning some things up and turning other things down. If you only turn things up, it won't be long until you push the signal into overload territory and get some nasty clipping..

One of the earlier systems we built gave everyone personal control over their mixes. The audio tech frequently had to intercede to reset levels below the clipping threshold. I plugged headphones into their IEM transmitters so I could hear their mixes. IMHO, most of them were horribly out of balance.
 
Now that the whole band is in in-ears, we rarely have to deal with feedback. But, because we still have acoustic drums, we still have to deal with volume issues and the drums bleeding through three open mics on-stage.

At my last gig, the manager asked me to turn down (the whole band) by 20% after the first couple of tunes. I (accidentally) didn't have the mains on and we were running most of the band through small satellite speakers in the bar, so essentially he was saying the drums were too loud.

I prefer acoustic drums, but electronic drums make a lot of sense in a full in-ears setup. If not, you have to have a drummer that is really adaptable to the locations and stages that you are playing.
 
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I prefer acoustic drums, but electronic drums make a lot of sense in a full in-ears setup. If not, you have to have a drummer that is really adaptable to the locations and stages that you are playing.
Agreed. Though finding a drummer who understands playing with dynamics is like looking for needles in haystacks. E-drums simplify things immensely. Kinda like finding a guitar player who will willingly turn down on request...
 
One would assume this, but IME most musicians don't know how to mix and results can be pretty awful.

The mistake most people make is the only turn things up. To manage a mix you need to keep the overall signal in a certain range, which means turning some things up and turning other things down. If you only turn things up, it won't be long until you push the signal into overload territory and get some nasty clipping..

One of the earlier systems we built gave everyone personal control over their mixes. The audio tech frequently had to intercede to reset levels below the clipping threshold. I plugged headphones into their IEM transmitters so I could hear their mixes. IMHO, most of them were horribly out of balance.
I think it’s a skill and ability that loads of pro players and semi-pro players can do these days and slotting in a dep is easy (they start with the mix that the regular player uses), I connect them to the wifi, I show them the app on their phone and that’s it.

In my party band the three instrumentalists are all ‘digital natives’ and used to DAWs and have decent experience running FOH at various levels of professionalism. My singer though… I set her mix up once and have adjusted it once for her in 3 years belt pack volume is about as much as she wants to deal with (fair enough!) (She was a full time singer before having kids and now is teaching singing, working in finance, and gigging with me!). We range in age from 40 - 55years old, so not old and decrepit, but old enough to remember life before e-mail or digital audio!

I’m happy to dep for anyone (grateful for the work!!) and it seems to be about 80/20 IEM/monitors - even a few years ago it was the other way round.
 
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