Completely “silent” stage: pros/cons, tips/tricks?

[micguy]

You can also get used to anything over time.

Yes, you can - over the last couple of decades, I have somehow gotten used to being able to hear everything much better than you could with amps and wedges blasting all over the stage. I have gotten used to being able to walk into a venue in one trip with all my gear. I have gotten used to not having my ears assaulted by excess volume (You can turn the guitarists down in your ears!!!!!!). I have somehow gotten used to hearing myself in my in ears at a reasonable volume, and feeling the stage shake under my feet at the same time - with the right person at FOH, it's a fantastic experience.

There is a learning curve, but once you're past that, it's much better for both the musicians and (especially) the audience.

 

[Wasnex]

Now that the whole band is in in-ears, we rarely have to deal with feedback. But, because we still have acoustic drums, we still have to deal with volume issues and the drums bleeding through three open mics on-stage.

At my last gig, the manager asked me to turn down (the whole band) by 20% after the first couple of tunes. I (accidentally) didn't have the mains on and we were running most of the band through small satellite speakers in the bar, so essentially he was saying the drums were too loud.

I prefer acoustic drums, but electronic drums make a lot of sense in a full in-ears setup. If not, you have to have a drummer that is really adaptable to the locations and stages that you are playing.

On a related note, if the drums are not loud enough in the drummers IEMs, the natural response will be to compensate by hitting the drums harder.

 

[DWBass]

Silent stages require a REALLY GOOD experienced sound engineer. Not many of them on a 'NON' pro level.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

I auditioned at my church a couple of years ago. My 1st experience with a silent stage. Sadly I didn’t get to practice, Check settings, balance my earphone settings, nothing. 1st time to hear a click track, 1st time to not have an amp behind or in front of me. Crashed and burned at my audition. My suggestion: ask to have some practice time.

 

[rtslinger]

It took a while to get used to it. I too am old school two svt and 3 8 by 10 cabs blowing my pant legs. But it took time to realize the fact is the band over all mix and the people are coming to see you are more important. You can get a great mix when the sound man isn’t fighting the stage volume wars that comes with live amps. I have found by hearing myself in my iem I can hear better what is happening on stage with other instruments and leave room for them to shine and also I can be more creative with my playing. Because of that it is a win, win situation for everyone in the room.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

This is precisely why most bands on my circuit have gone IEM and bring their own IEM mixer to the gig.
They also have a splitter snake, all usually housed in a rack.
Everyone plugs into splitter snake box. One leg goes to the bands IEM mixer, the other to the house.
The IEM mixes go from the IEM mixers AUX outs to the band members, be that wired or wireless. Each own that aspect along with their own buds.
Band members control their mix via phone/tablets using the WiFi network on the dedicated router attached to IEM mixer.
Simple hookup. FOH runs FOH, band runs their monitor mixes!

I've had some bands ask me if ti was OK for them to use their IEM system, I'm like I will help you carry it to the stage and bring my splitter if I need to!!
Actually I have my splitter with me many times just in case.....I have seen some lets say questionable condition splitters come through.
As I mentioned earlier, mixing FOH for a silent/near silent stage is great....you can actually work mixing more of the nuances into the mix rather than battling mic bleed stage wash out front, that applies to both indoor and many outdoor shows.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

On a related note, if the drums are not loud enough in the drummers IEMs, the natural response will be to compensate by hitting the drums harder.

Yes. The bass drum is mic'd and there is an overhead to catch the rest. I put some bass drum in the PA, but the overhead is solely for the drummer's in-ears.

 

[WillKrauseBass]

So, we have been gigging and experimenting with a very silent stage (as is the big trend), and not bothering with bringing amps. It definitely broadens the possibilities for lower volume gigs, like a restaurant or private function, and it’s a feature we can promote. We can keep it all under 80db, for example.

We even sunk the pads of the e-drum-kit INTO some drum shells, which look fantastic on stage, but retain that volume and effect trigger controls all via the mixers. Each time, we try to improve the balance and IEM experience for ourselves. And the sound through the JBL PA/Subs is awesome, very lush and we have had great compliments. It’s still very odd not FEELING that air move, all that stage vibration and the drums in the chest.

What are your experiences? Is investing in a “silent” setup worth the effort, or are you ride-or-die about your amps? What tips or advice, gear or issues have you had transitioning? What would you have liked to have been told beforehand?

If your whole band is on board to learn and invest, silent stage is awesome. I still prefer how amps feel on-stage, but if you have good gear the sound going direct is great and oh so easy to dial in. Plus load-in and load-out is a breeze. Unless you are lucky enough to have the same soundguy at every gig you do, you should have the set up where everyone can do their own IEM mixes on their phones. Pretty easy to do and it is truly a game changer. Honestly the only time I still bring an amp is when I'm playing with a new venue or sound-guy, the place has a minimal PA, or a couple of my bands have guys that aren't experienced with silent stage and it's easier to use amps.

 

[Acoustic356]

Most of the venues I play the subs are under the stage which allows you to feel the kick and the bass through the floor of the stage. In areas where that is not an option, the playing experience isn't as great, but not skimping on in-ears is a great way to go. I have 2 different sets of in-ears, one set with 6 drivers and one with 2. I find that I get a more even "pleasant" listening experience with 6 driver, but more bottom end and a better feel with 2.

Also, stereo mixes are great, especially when you can mimic the alignment of where everyone is on the stage. The only exception is the drums, I like the drums to properly be spread across the audio spectrum.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

I would also recommend custom moulds for your in-ears. I helps isolate spurious external noises.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

If you can mix your own songs to your ears it's a better experience. You can also get used to anything over time.

Yes to this. Ask for practice time.

 

[Danny O Danny]

What are your experiences? Is investing in a “silent” setup worth the effort, or are you ride-or-die about your amps? What tips or advice, gear or issues have you had transitioning? What would you have liked to have been told beforehand?

My wife and I formed a new band about 3 years ago (her on digital piano & vocals, me on bass & vocals) and we decided to go completely "silent stage"/IEMs. We absolutely love it. She and I invested in really good custom fitted IEMs (UE11's) and I cobbled together a monitor system primarily comprised of Behringer equipment, including P16-M personal monitor mixers. We're both completely sold on this approach. In nearly 50 years of performing music, neither of us have ever been able to hear everything so well (other than in recording studios) as we do now.

As we added additional musicians (acoustic guitarist, electric guitarist, drums/percussion) we met some resistance, but in each case once they gave it a chance (and got some decent earbuds) they were sold. The electric guitarist had to put away his beloved Fender Twin Reverb and get a Kemper and the drummer switched to e-drums, but once they'd gotten through the adjustment period they were very happy. We're all older musicians, so protecting what remains of our hearing is very important to us. In looking for musicians, there are some however who are not at all willing to try IEMs/"silent stage". This can make it challenging to find suitable musicians--particularly drummers. On the other hand, our experience has been that the drummers and electric guitarists who embrace going "silent stage" and digital discover a whole world of sonic creativity.

Gig-wise, it has made things much easier since we're not fighting to find a balance between the sound coming off of the stage vs the FOH system. We consistently get complimented by venues on how great we sound. I designed our system so that all instruments and mics first plug into an XLR splitter, then each instrument and mic splits off to our monitor system and to the FOH. This means regardless of whether we're using our own FOH or a venue-provided system, our monitors are exactly the same, and so the monitor mix that we each hear (and the volume we hear it at) doesn't change. And each musician controls their own personal monitor mix, which is essential. That means, for us, playing a gig sounds just like it did at rehearsal. If a venue is providing a house system with a house soundman and onstage wedges, we just connect the FOH side of our XLR splitter to the house snake and tell the soundguy to just turn his monitors completely off. But we mostly play small venues where we provide our own FOH. We don't have our own sound person, so I run it. That means I typically stand out front during soundcheck to make sure the FOH mix is good, and I periodically pop an IEM out of one ear during the gig just to make sure everything seems OK in FOH (to the extent I can tell from the stage). It would be a better, of course, if we had a sound person. Sometimes, if the gig warrants it, we hire someone for the show, but most of our gigs don't justify that expense and I can hear the FOH good enough from the stage to manage it.

As a bassist, I used to tour with an SVT back in the day, but I don't tour anymore and I'm too old to be lugging a refrigerator around, and it would be overkill for the venues where we play. But now that we're IEM/"silent stage" I use an Ampeg SGT-DI and can get that lovely SVT sound.

 

[JamesGrant]

I auditioned at my church a couple of years ago. My 1st experience with a silent stage. Sadly I didn’t get to practice, Check settings, balance my earphone settings, nothing. 1st time to hear a click track, 1st time to not have an amp behind or in front of me. Crashed and burned at my audition. My suggestion: ask to have some practice time.

That sucks. I’m sorry to hear that. There are so many ways to onboard people and ‘trial by fire in public’ isn’t one of the good options. Lots of great players are promising youngsters get burnt and passed-by by such an unnecessarily abrupt ‘introduction’ to the machinery of modern ‘live’ church music making.

Learning to be comfortable with that equipment is a short process, learning to be a good musician is a long process - I am sad that people who are possibly fine musicians and great people are rejected due to the ‘gate keeping’ of the simple-to-teach equipment that some churches choose to use and forget to teach. Not church-bashing, but trying to let you know that the onboarding process is broken, and that’s not your fault.

 

[_Some Dude]

I've had gigs where I've forgotten to turn my amp off standby and never noticed, plus there's so much sub coming up from the stage I doubt I could feel my cab anyway.

That said, it's hard to get the sustain and feedback with no live cabs on stage, and a lot of the venues around here lack center fills, so modellers tend to sound empty if you stand too close to the stage, so it depends on the gig.

I think just getting rid of the wedges does a lot.

 

[s0c9]

I agree 100% with others on don’t show up to a gig and expect first time IEM’s to be a splendiferous experience without practice.
All six of the bands I’ve played/subbed with during the last 2 yrs are all 100% IEM.
All have acoustic drums and some have mic’d (small) guitar amps.
The ONLY challenge I’ve seen is needing minor input channel gain adjustments on the IEM mixers and most of those folks play in more than one band (like me) and may have changed settings! Well, that and having a band member who knows how to EQ and set up a decent mix for the IEM channels.

 

[_Some Dude]

I agree 100% with others on don’t show up to a gig and expect first time IEM’s to be a splendiferous experience without practice.
All six of the bands I’ve played/subbed with during the last 2 yrs are all 100% IEM.
All have acoustic drums and some have mic’d (small) guitar amps.
The ONLY challenge I’ve seen is needing minor input channel gain adjustments on the IEM mixers and most of those folks play in more than one band (like me) and may have changed settings! Well, that and having a band member who knows how to EQ and set up a decent mix for the IEM channels.

The nice thing about IEMs is it makes the guy who needs his instrument 10dB louder than everything else able to have his instrument 10dB louder in his own head.

It's made balancing real amps and keeping stage volume venue appropriate much easier when they can dial in their own ears.



(edit- I know this is supposed to be a silent stage thread, but I feel like it wandered away from that a while ago)

 

[Wasnex]

That sucks. I’m sorry to hear that. There are so many ways to onboard people and ‘trial by fire in public’ isn’t one of the good options. Lots of great players are promising youngsters get burnt and passed-by by such an unnecessarily abrupt ‘introduction’ to the machinery of modern ‘live’ church music making.

Learning to be comfortable with that equipment is a short process, learning to be a good musician is a long process - I am sad that people who are possibly fine musicians and great people are rejected due to the ‘gate keeping’ of the simple-to-teach equipment that some churches choose to use and forget to teach. Not church-bashing, but trying to let you know that the onboarding process is broken, and that’s not your fault.

FYI, onboarding is not part of the audition/hiring process. Onboarding happens after you get the job.

An organization typically does not train or teach job candidates unless an internship or apprenticeship is involved. Usually the primary point of auditions is to identify the best candidate and weed out those who are less qualified. In this case, the goal was likely to hire a player who can do the job without additional training.

 

[Wasnex]

I agree 100% with others on don’t show up to a gig and expect first time IEM’s to be a splendiferous experience without practice.
All six of the bands I’ve played/subbed with during the last 2 yrs are all 100% IEM.
All have acoustic drums and some have mic’d (small) guitar amps.
The ONLY challenge I’ve seen is needing minor input channel gain adjustments on the IEM mixers and most of those folks play in more than one band (like me) and may have changed settings! Well, that and having a band member who knows how to EQ and set up a decent mix for the IEM channels.

Ideally a band will use the same setup for rehearsals and gigs. Each player needs a consistent signal path they can dial in and then lock down. When it is done this way, the mixes sound the same every time the system is used, regardless of whether it's a rehearsal or a gig. Small tweaks can be made as our hearing tends to shift from day to day, but only minimal changes should be required.

This only works if you can get the players to accept the need to stop fiddling with their controls.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

For our carols service we had to abandon our IEMs and rely on foldback because the portable desk did not have enough output for an iem feed. I'm glad we use IEMS, the foldback was great during rehearsal but for the performance, I could not tell if I was playing or not! Next year I shall bring an amp and let the sound guy handle that!

 

[Danny O Danny]

FYI, onboarding is not part of the audition/hiring process. Onboarding happens after you get the job.

An organization typically does not train or teach job candidates unless an internship or apprenticeship is involved. Usually the primary point of auditions is to identify the best candidate and weed out those who are less qualified. In this case, the goal was likely to hire a player who can do the job without additional training.

I don't know... We've auditioned a few musicians who did not have prior IEM/"Silent Stage" experience, and as a precursory part of their audition we "onboarded" them. In each case, all it took was a few minutes beforehand to show the person how to use their personal mixer and, if they didn't have decent earbuds with them, let them use a set of our headphones to insure they could hear well. We also checked in with them as we started playing songs to see how comfortable they were with the mix they were getting, and help them tweak accordingly. I'd hate to miss out on a great addition to our band just because they were unfamiliar with IEM technology. That would be foolish on our part.